Ole Dirty Klondike

What Can Be Done to Keep JJJ on the floor? What Options Do We Have?

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he lasted all of, what? 20 minutes on the court yesterday? not good, not at all. the last foul was not a good call..all the others seemed spot on. jtrip just not demonstrating that he’s learning about body positioning/reaching and non-reaching. 

 

slim. 

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12 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

he lasted all of, what? 20 minutes on the court yesterday? not good, not at all. the last foul was not a good call..all the others seemed spot on. jtrip just not demonstrating that he’s learning about body positioning/reaching and non-reaching. 

 

slim. 

I thought we weren't supposed to criticize JJJ's lack of development from his rookie season until after this season? 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

I thought we weren't supposed to criticize JJJ's lack of development from his rookie season until after this season? 

Did Mike Conley work hard between his 1st and 2nd year in the league? Did he make a conscious effort to improve on certain skills in his first offseason in the league?

Because when I look at Conley's game log for his 2nd season, I notice that whatever it is he worked on during that offseason sure as heck didn't translate during the first 40 or so games of the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/conlemi01/gamelog/2009

I seem to recall you drawing a contrast between JJJ (who you've assumed didn't put in the work this season) and Conley (who I think you pointed to as having improved consistently and put in the work every offseason). If we rewind to 11 years ago on this date, what would you be saying about Conley's development?

 

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32 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

Did Mike Conley work hard between his 1st and 2nd year in the league? Did he make a conscious effort to improve on certain skills in his first offseason in the league?

Because when I look at Conley's game log for his 2nd season, I notice that whatever it is he worked on during that offseason sure as heck didn't translate during the first 40 or so games of the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/conlemi01/gamelog/2009

I seem to recall you drawing a contrast between JJJ (who you've assumed didn't put in the work this season) and Conley (who I think you pointed to as having improved consistently and put in the work every offseason). If we rewind to 11 years ago on this date, what would you be saying about Conley's development?

 

Yeah, thats all anyone is saying. Some work done may not translate or show up right away, not that you cant analyze or critique him at all during the year. This isnt a perfect science. Chip just wants to be a "complainer" about it.

-Edited due to language. 

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2 hours ago, memphis slim said:

I didn’t get that memo, nor do I subscribe to such. 

 

slim. 

and yet ....i've got that memo....from you...

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39 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

Did Mike Conley work hard between his 1st and 2nd year in the league? Did he make a conscious effort to improve on certain skills in his first offseason in the league?

Because when I look at Conley's game log for his 2nd season, I notice that whatever it is he worked on during that offseason sure as heck didn't translate during the first 40 or so games of the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/conlemi01/gamelog/2009

I seem to recall you drawing a contrast between JJJ (who you've assumed didn't put in the work this season) and Conley (who I think you pointed to as having improved consistently and put in the work every offseason). If we rewind to 11 years ago on this date, what would you be saying about Conley's development?

Actually I didn't initiate the Conley and Jackson comparison. I responded to a poster saying Conley didn't improve from his first season to his second with the facts that Conley did improve in almost every statistical category from his first and second seasons. I did not go into a game by game comparison however. I can't tell if we can see improvement from a list of game to game comparisons you provided either. Perhaps if you could summarize those numbers something workable can be found. 

I have already said I will not criticize Jackson until the end of the season since so many posters are crushed that I questioned his off-season work this past summer. I will honor that statement I made. 

One would think that people wouldn't be rushing to start a fight over JJJ's off-season work after his play in the last game.  However I won't criticize him until the end of the season because some people feel it is unfair to criticize someone before then. 

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1 hour ago, Lugan Village said:

let's just hope JJJ can get through warm-ups without fouling out.....

🤣

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3 hours ago, memphis slim said:

he lasted all of, what? 20 minutes on the court yesterday? not good, not at all. the last foul was not a good call..all the others seemed spot on. jtrip just not demonstrating that he’s learning about body positioning/reaching and non-reaching. 

 

slim. 

It's not encouraging that he just keeps committing blatantly obvious fouls. I mean, a lot of times, you can't even question it but for the others, I think he has been labeled as foul prone and the refs are quick to blow the whistle. Sadly, he's brought that on himself. We have a long way to go but he's not showing any improvement. He actually seems to regress sometimes because you can tell how frustrated he is but he has no one to blame but himself  

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22 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

It's not encouraging that he just keeps committing blatantly obvious fouls. I mean, a lot of times, you can't even question it but for the others, I think he has been labeled as foul prone and the refs are quick to blow the whistle. Sadly, he's brought that on himself. We have a long way to go but he's not showing any improvement. He actually seems to regress sometimes because you can tell how frustrated he is but he has no one to blame but himself  

He has three things working against him. Stupid decisions, weird coordination/balance/unneccesary wildness and reffing bias.  They all kinda work against each other in certain ways to create a maddening conundrum. Example, when he steps into a post defender and he flops, it looks stupid, but there is something about his coordination that makes it look worse than what it was. Like he fell into the man. And the ref always looks at him first instead of the flopper.

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There's no doubt JJJ fouls too much, but there's also no doubt that he has terrible calls made against him. Every game 1 or 2 of his fouls are complete booboo. It is what it is though. We don't have a superstar, so don't get superstar calls. As far as fouls go though, I really wish all the players would stop running and jumping at 3pt attempts. It's one of the dumbest things. They run, jump, the shooter holds the ball, we fly past, then they shoot, or we foul them. I don't understand it. Stop jumping at 3pt attempts. Run up and put a hand in their face. If they make it, they make it.

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25 minutes ago, sativa417 said:

There's no doubt JJJ fouls too much, but there's also no doubt that he has terrible calls made against him. Every game 1 or 2 of his fouls are complete booboo. It is what it is though. We don't have a superstar, so don't get superstar calls. As far as fouls go though, I really wish all the players would stop running and jumping at 3pt attempts. It's one of the dumbest things. They run, jump, the shooter holds the ball, we fly past, then they shoot, or we foul them. I don't understand it. Stop jumping at 3pt attempts. Run up and put a hand in their face. If they make it, they make it.

Can’t worry about foul trouble if he is doing well otherwise. Let him get 3 fouls then sit him for the rest of the half.  Play him with the normal rotations until he fouls out.

Just gotta have a bunch of bigs. In today’s NBA  the refs are gonna call fouls on big men.  Especially young bigs.  

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9 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Can’t worry about foul trouble if he is doing well otherwise. Let him get 3 fouls then sit him for the rest of the half.  Play him with the normal rotations until he fouls out.

Just gotta have a bunch of bigs. In today’s NBA  the refs are gonna call fouls on big men.  Especially young bigs.  

Problem is they often seem to jump forward instead of up, and then they foul. They need to practice while wearing spiked Mad Max suits, so if they jump forward, they're bleeding. Then maybe they'll try to avoid jumping into body contact. 

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1 hour ago, sativa417 said:

Problem is they often seem to jump forward instead of up, and then they foul. They need to practice while wearing spiked Mad Max suits, so if they jump forward, they're bleeding. Then maybe they'll try to avoid jumping into body contact. 

Do they still have those Big Man Camps?

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1 hour ago, sativa417 said:

Problem is they often seem to jump forward instead of up, and then they foul. They need to practice while wearing spiked Mad Max suits, so if they jump forward, they're bleeding. Then maybe they'll try to avoid jumping into body contact. 

Have Brandon Clarke teach classes. He knows how to challenge without fouling.

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Sabonis and Dillon both fouled out.

Sabonis has fouled out 2 games in a row.

Dillon has +1 more fouls than Jaren

Just saying

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JJJ looked so good last night!

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15 hours ago, memphis slim said:

jtrip just not demonstrating that he’s learning about body positioning/reaching and non-reaching. 

I have been saying the same thing... the reaches are either desperate swings hoping for a block or reaching with his hands because he cannot move his feet and properly defend with his body.

Shane Battier was a master at position defense.

I also notice that when he gets it going on the offensive end - he can get hot .

Now , opposing coaches will just go at him hard when he’s on defense and get him in foul trouble and send him and his potential points to the bench.

There is still time for him to learn real defense and cut it out with the ‘gotta block everything’ mentality.

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13 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Do they still have those Big Man Camps?

Yes. 

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3 hours ago, grizzgolf said:

JJJ looked so good last night!

He shot the ball very well. He also grabbed four rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, one steal and only two turnovers. One of his fouls was compete BS after he banged knees with another player and they appeared to both hold onto each to avoid falling to the court. 

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I think  its time to just re-evaluate what we think Jaren should be and make the correct comps.   Somebody pointed out on the boards the other day that Jaren may not get rebounds but his man usually doesn't either.   He is from same school of thought as Marc were he mostly just blocks out and lets his guys get the board.     Why is that so bad?  

Jaren shoots 39% on 3ptrs on over 5 attpg.   That's pretty freaking good.   He can score in the post and create off the dribble.   He is 6'11 with 7'5 wingspan with elite potential defensively (whenever cleanup fouling).     He avgs 15.7ppg on 27mpg.      SO WHAT IF HE ONLY AVGS 5rbs.     Young man checks off a ton of boxes and is STILL DEVELOPING.   Anybody that wants to give up on him is Insane!     

If the idea is to modernize the offense then Jaren is a logical cornerstone for that.    Now that we have Ja its not even a big deal that Jaren doesn't always show Alpha mentality.    But we do know he isn't afraid of the moment or scared of the big lights.  

If Taylor is trying to turn us into the Bucks then Jaren was miscast as Giannis.   He should be athletic Brook Lopez with Ja playing the Micro -Giannis role.    Now we need to get a Brogdon/Middleton type and there is your Big 3.  

Dirk is another good comp while be lesser offensively but WAY better defensively.   

 I aint worried about rebounding we have the wings that can make up the difference.    Even Ja and Melton are solid rebounders for their position.  

JJJ is young and still getting used to his body.  Just imagine how good he will be when he fully fills out and is used to his body.    6''11'' Steph!!!     If Jaren was playing the 5 spacing the floor that leaves BC and Ja tons of room to wreck the rim.    Now imagine LaMelo or Edwards on the wing too. .....Man Ya'll are crazy if you cant see the potential in Jaren as core piece.     Its not like he isn't performing!!   

Just go get an athletic big body athletic rebounder in the second round to handle the beast centers.    

PG: Ja

SG: Edwards or LaMelo

SF: 3D wing

PF: Brandon

C : Jaren

 

That is the GOAL.    Don't lose focus worrying about a super young players growing pains.   Keep your eyes on the prize.   

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  • I think  its time to just re-evaluate what we think Jaren should be and make the correct comps.   Somebody pointed out on the boards the other day that Jaren may not get rebounds but his man usually doesn't either.   He is from same school of thought as Marc were he mostly just blocks out and lets his guys get the board.     Why is that so bad?  

Jaren guarded Donatis Sabonis last night. Sabonis got 14 rebounds. Jackson guarded Towns Sunday afternoon. Towns got  12 rebounds. Jackson guarded Bogdanovic Friday night and Bogdan grabbed 8 boards. Harrell had 10 and Jeff Green 8 rebounds the night before Thanksgiving. The most Jackson had in any of these games was 6 rebounds. It's a nice theory but it isn't really supported by the statistics. 

Jackson can score in so many different ways it is scary. However, until he learns how to be a defensive presence without fouling and to rebound better he is a one trick pony. I believe he can improve but he needs to work harder at the areas he is deficient in to become the player he hopes to be.  

 

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gtf. nice swing and absolute miss on jaren blocks out and just lets others grab the boards. come on, let’s at least talk honestly here. 

I love jtrip. I only want the best for him and our collective future, but shane battier (great, great reference above) would have out rebounded him 2 to 1. rebounding is about want and footwork. 

our third string pg I believe grabbed 9 last night. how many times this season has jtrip grabbed that many?

 

slim. 

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