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I❤️JV

2016 Draft Diamonds&Busts

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The more i think about getting JB, more i realise it is probably impossible. We are dealing with Danny Ainge and not Michael Jordan. If JB produces enough he will pay him the max....if not he will trade him before deadline.IMO Danny Ainge is not as stupid as to lose asset for nothing.

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2 hours ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

We need to use our cap space to acquire players in trade, not free agency. Free agency is a loser for us on stars.

The reason I disagree with this is it requires us to give up other assets in order to make the trade work. No one is trading us a star level player and not wanting something significant in return unless the player is washed or is a problem. At least through free agency, you don't have to give up anything else. Just because we were burned in the past does not mean we should quit trying. Trust this front office to make the right decision. So far, they have on everything else.

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40 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

The more i think about getting JB, more i realise it is probably impossible. We are dealing with Danny Ainge and not Michael Jordan. If JB produces enough he will pay him the max....if not he will trade him before deadline.IMO Danny Ainge is not as stupid as to lose asset for nothing.

Danny Ainge is also smart enough to wait. If no other team offers Brown the max, Brown will resign with the Celtics for less. Make a run at him and if the Celtics match, so be it. But make them pay. If they don't match, we get the player. If they do match, we get a bigger revenue sharing payout when their luxury taxes start adding up.

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23 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Danny Ainge is also smart enough to wait. If no other team offers Brown the max, Brown will resign with the Celtics for less. Make a run at him and if the Celtics match, so be it. But make them pay. If they don't match, we get the player. If they do match, we get a bigger revenue sharing payout when their luxury taxes start adding up.

I think Danny is trying to get him extended for like 4y/80, i think JB and Danny both know there is strong possibility someone will offer him max.So unless Danny is ready to pay him the max he will trade him in February. I just do not see  Danny Ainge losing asset for nothing.

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29 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

I think Danny is trying to get him extended for like 4y/80, i think JB and Danny both know there is strong possibility someone will offer him max.So unless Danny is ready to pay him the max he will trade him in February. I just do not see  Danny Ainge losing asset for nothing.

Except he is a key piece on a Celtics team that wants to compete for a title. If they are a top 4 seed, they aren't trading him just to get back a couple of lesser players and draft picks.

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31 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

I think Danny is trying to get him extended for like 4y/80, i think JB and Danny both know there is strong possibility someone will offer him max.So unless Danny is ready to pay him the max he will trade him in February. I just do not see  Danny Ainge losing asset for nothing.

Also by the middle of last season, Ainge knew Kyrie was leaving. But he was such a major part of what they wanted to accomplish that it was better to let him walk in the offseason than trade him and ruin the season.

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7 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Also by the middle of last season, Ainge knew Kyrie was leaving. But he was such a major part of what they wanted to accomplish that it was better to let him walk in the offseason than trade him and ruin the season.

Good points, but difference with Kyrie and JB, Kyrie was free agent, JB will be restricted, so any team trading for him can match.

Good trade for Ainge would be JB for Sabonis in February.  

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:43 PM, lsugrizzfan said:

Also by the middle of last season, Ainge knew Kyrie was leaving. But he was such a major part of what they wanted to accomplish that it was better to let him walk in the offseason than trade him and ruin the season.

Hope you are right. As with Terry Rozier (lost for nothing) when it was a chance to get a 1st rounder in February.

Ainge could be overrated...

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1 hour ago, I❤️JV said:

Hope you are right. As with Terry Rozier (lost for nothing) when it was a chance to get a 1st rounder in February.

Ainge could be overrated...

It's not that Ainge is overrated. It is a matter of when you are competing for titles you don't trade valuable pieces for future assets, even if it means losing them in the offseason. Actual championship windows are usually very small, you don't give them away for a future asset.

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3 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

It's not that Ainge is overrated. It is a matter of when you are competing for titles you don't trade valuable pieces for future assets, even if it means losing them in the offseason. Actual championship windows are usually very small, you don't give them away for a future asset.

Agree 100%, except i don't see Boston as a contender.They are R2 team at best. 

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2 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

Agree 100%, except i don't see Boston as a contender.They are R2 team at best. 

I agree with you. Does Ainge agree with us?

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1 minute ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I agree with you. Does Ainge agree with us?

If Danny thinks he can win with this roster he would be delusional and i don"t think Ainge is.

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12 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

It's not that Ainge is overrated. It is a matter of when you are competing for titles you don't trade valuable pieces for future assets, even if it means losing them in the offseason. Actual championship windows are usually very small, you don't give them away for a future asset.

He does not need trade JB for future asset. He could trade for a similar player (like Sabonis) or could package him for a star (like Bradley Beal). 

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7 hours ago, I❤️JV said:

He does not need trade JB for future asset. He could trade for a similar player (like Sabonis) or could package him for a star (like Bradley Beal). 

I could see some sort of package for Beal but Sabonis? Major major downgrade.

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1 minute ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I could see some sort of package for Beal but Sabonis? Major major downgrade.

Pacers fans expect JB+pick for Sabonis...go figure...

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24 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I could see some sort of package for Beal but Sabonis? Major major downgrade.

Why is that a major downgrade?  You mean for Indy?  Sabonis looks like a much more valuable piece.  Sixth Man of the Year finalist, better offensive and defensive ratings, better FG%, FT%, better rebounder, better assist man, more win shares.

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16 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Why is that a major downgrade?  You mean for Indy?  Sabonis looks like a much more valuable piece.  Sixth Man of the Year finalist, better offensive and defensive ratings, better FG%, FT%, better rebounder, better assist man, more win shares.

Maybe I am missing the boat on Sabonis but all I see is a limited player who was put in a position to succeed by playing him limited minutes against almost all bench players.  It reminded me of ZBo's last year with the Grizz where they made him look like a better player than he was by running him out there against subs. I also tend to think that this is peak Sabonis already (I know he is only 23), whereas I think peak Brown can be what he was in the playoffs a few years ago. I also think Brown will thrive without all the chaos around the team.

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51 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Maybe I am missing the boat on Sabonis but all I see is a limited player who was put in a position to succeed by playing him limited minutes against almost all bench players.  It reminded me of ZBo's last year with the Grizz where they made him look like a better player than he was by running him out there against subs. I also tend to think that this is peak Sabonis already (I know he is only 23), whereas I think peak Brown can be what he was in the playoffs a few years ago. I also think Brown will thrive without all the chaos around the team.

You are missing the boat on Sabonis.

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1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Maybe I am missing the boat on Sabonis but all I see is a limited player who was put in a position to succeed by playing him limited minutes against almost all bench players.  It reminded me of ZBo's last year with the Grizz where they made him look like a better player than he was by running him out there against subs. I also tend to think that this is peak Sabonis already (I know he is only 23), whereas I think peak Brown can be what he was in the playoffs a few years ago. I also think Brown will thrive without all the chaos around the team.

I guess time will tell.  I would take either one of those players and be extremely happy.  I just wonder, do you feel the same way about all 6thmen?  Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, etc?  Just because they thrive off the bench does not mean they cannot in a starting role.

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On 9/14/2019 at 11:37 AM, smit-tay griz said:

I guess time will tell.  I would take either one of those players and be extremely happy.  I just wonder, do you feel the same way about all 6thmen?  Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, etc?  Just because they thrive off the bench does not mean they cannot in a starting role.

All? No. Most? Yes. But borderline starting players will see an uptick in their stats by coming off the bench because they are playing lesser players. That's just the way it is. Unless you don't believe NBA starters are as good the bench players. You play weaker, less talented players, your numbers should be better.

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6 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

All? No. Most? Yes. But borderline starting players will see an uptick in their stats by coming off the bench because they are playing lesser players. That's just the way it is. Unless you don't believe NBA starters are as good the bench players. You play weaker, less talented players, your numbers should be better.

And yet Sabonis stats where even better as a starter. Sabonis and Oladipo are really good together and both benefiting from each other. If i am Pacers i only trade Sabonis if Sabonis/Turner is not working.

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11 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

All? No. Most? Yes. But borderline starting players will see an uptick in their stats by coming off the bench because they are playing lesser players. That's just the way it is. Unless you don't believe NBA starters are as good the bench players. You play weaker, less talented players, your numbers should be better.

Of course generally speaking starters are better than bench players.  However, I don't believe all teams start their five best basketball players either.  Otherwise how would you explain Hall of Fame players coming off the bench like Havlicek or Bobby Jones.  Also a sixth man is not playing exclusively against bench players just as starters are not playing exclusively against opposing starters.  A good sixth man will spend a good deal of time playing against starters, and I would think that a sixth man also becomes the focus of opposing teams' defense when he is on the floor.  I don't think there is that much of a drop off between starters and bench players to make that much of a difference, though I would guess that a sixth man would get more shot opportunities than if he were with the starting unit.

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13 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Of course generally speaking starters are better than bench players.  However, I don't believe all teams start their five best basketball players either.  Otherwise how would you explain Hall of Fame players coming off the bench like Havlicek or Bobby Jones.  Also a sixth man is not playing exclusively against bench players just as starters are not playing exclusively against opposing starters.  A good sixth man will spend a good deal of time playing against starters, and I would think that a sixth man also becomes the focus of opposing teams' defense when he is on the floor.  I don't think there is that much of a drop off between starters and bench players to make that much of a difference, though I would guess that a sixth man would get more shot opportunities than if he were with the starting unit.

I agree that occasionally a team will save one of its better players to come off the bench. But to me that is rare. Again the last year ZBo was here changed my mind a lot of what even average players can do against bench guys. Because ZBo was not very good at that point and couldn't be stopped by bench guys.

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