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I❤️JV

Free agency 2020

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25 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

JV is very good, but he's still limited in his effectiveness. Clarke has legit Draymond potential (without being a head case). Clarke is an elite athlete, has a promising looking jumper, and as good if not better basketball IQ as Kyle. He's essentially Kyle, but a good athlete and non broken looking jumper. If Kyle had those things, I'd want him to start as well, but he doesn't. Kyle will still be effective off the bench for us I believe. 

On the Duncan note, he played center for the second half of his career essentially. That's according to basketball reference, and is what I seem to remember as well. Not sure that exactly fits what you are saying though. Plus the NBA has changed significantly since Tim was in his prime. 10-15 years ago, I wholeheartedly agree jaren would have been a PF (and he could still theoretically be one), but that's just not where today's game is. He needs to improve his rebounding significantly, I'll also agree with that, but if Clarke starts next to him, I think they'll be a good enough combo for rebounding. I think Ja will be Westbrook-esque in at least his eagerness to rebound as well. They'll be fine. 

Don't get me wrong.  I love what I have seen so far from Brandon, and I really hope he is in the RoY conversation along with Ja.  I hope he turns out to be everything you expect - as long as Memphis is emblazoned across his chest.  I root for the team and everyone on it. 

I just think your expectations might be a bit high.  For instance, Clarke shot 25% from the shorter arc for his collegiate career, while non-shooting Kyle shot 37.5% from the same distance and made four times as many as Clarke.  If Brandon develops a reliable three I'll be ecstatic, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  I also wouldn't expect him to displace any reliable starters that quickly either.  If he's got what it takes I think he'll still be at least two years away, maybe three.  He is also fighting being undersized for his position.  I hope it'll be sooner.

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1 hour ago, smit-tay griz said:

Don't get me wrong.  I love what I have seen so far from Brandon, and I really hope he is in the RoY conversation along with Ja.  I hope he turns out to be everything you expect - as long as Memphis is emblazoned across his chest.  I root for the team and everyone on it. 

I just think your expectations might be a bit high.  For instance, Clarke shot 25% from the shorter arc for his collegiate career, while non-shooting Kyle shot 37.5% from the same distance and made four times as many as Clarke.  If Brandon develops a reliable three I'll be ecstatic, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  I also wouldn't expect him to displace any reliable starters that quickly either.  If he's got what it takes I think he'll still be at least two years away, maybe three.  He is also fighting being undersized for his position.  I hope it'll be sooner.

I wouldn't say he's that undersized for being a 4, certainly is if he has to play any at the 5. He's used to playing the 5 in college, and while there's clearly a difference, 5s in college are at least generally the size of a 4 in the NBA. Obviously he'll need to add strength most likely, but he should be able to. 

I don't think he started really working on that 3 until this offseason and you could already tell it was paying dividends. I don't think he'll ever be a high volume shooter, but I think he'll be good enough to keep a defense honest. Kyle 

I don't think it'll be this year regardless, but by the either the start of next year or by all star break, I think he'll be starting. 

As for Kyle, I looked at some UCLA highlights and he honestly looked so much better then than now. Quicker and with a better looking shot. I know the shoulder was an issue, but his shot mechanics have changed completely. It wasn't great before, but now it is really bad. Again, hopefully that shoulder surgery fixes the issue. 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

I wouldn't say he's that undersized for being a 4, certainly is if he has to play any at the 5. He's used to playing the 5 in college, and while there's clearly a difference, 5s in college are at least generally the size of a 4 in the NBA. Obviously he'll need to add strength most likely, but he should be able to. 

I don't think he started really working on that 3 until this offseason and you could already tell it was paying dividends. I don't think he'll ever be a high volume shooter, but I think he'll be good enough to keep a defense honest. Kyle 

I don't think it'll be this year regardless, but by the either the start of next year or by all star break, I think he'll be starting. 

As for Kyle, I looked at some UCLA highlights and he honestly looked so much better then than now. Quicker and with a better looking shot. I know the shoulder was an issue, but his shot mechanics have changed completely. It wasn't great before, but now it is really bad. Again, hopefully that shoulder surgery fixes the issue. 

I would love to see him try to guard JV. 

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10 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I would love to see him try to guard JV. 

I assume you mean Clarke. Probably wouldn't go well. He'd certainly be a small ball center, not someone you'd put against traditional centers. Not a great argument there honestly. 

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Clarke is shorter and lighter than Rabb.  He will have to rely heavily on his athleticism, which he has.  I don't think he will be pushing anyone around though.

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In the modern NBA, Jaren needs to be capable of playing both PF and C. However, if Jaren and Clarke are our PF/C combo of the future, we are in real trouble....unless we see some improvement in rebounding. You can't win without the ball. It doesn't matter how many shots the other team misses, if you can't secure the rebound. 

Jaren was pushed around all last year. I expect more of the same for the next couple of years. In the mean time, let's not be in a rush to have him beaten up by guys much bigger and stronger. Let him stay at PF (primarily) and then see what the futures holds.

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7 hours ago, Plop Plop Griz Griz said:

PJ Tucker, Montrezl Harrell, Anthony Tolliver, Zion, Draymond and others would like a word.

Anyone can play center when the opponent doesn't have a real center on the floor.  Of all those names Harrell is the only one who remotely is a center.  Draymond and Tolliver can get away with it in small ball lineups.  I have never seen PJ Tucker play center.  I don't know why you have Zion in there.  He has not played one second of NBA basketball in his life.  Since there are not many polished true low-post bigs in the league anymore, teams can sometimes get away with it.  As soon as some new faces who can play like that enter the league most of those names will be quickly moved back to their natural positions.  I doubt those guys will be asked to guard JV much because they aren't centers.

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On 9/14/2019 at 7:08 PM, smit-tay griz said:

Anyone can play center when the opponent doesn't have a real center on the floor.  Of all those names Harrell is the only one who remotely is a center.  Draymond and Tolliver can get away with it in small ball lineups.  I have never seen PJ Tucker play center.  I don't know why you have Zion in there.  He has not played one second of NBA basketball in his life.  Since there are not many polished true low-post bigs in the league anymore, teams can sometimes get away with it.  As soon as some new faces who can play like that enter the league most of those names will be quickly moved back to their natural positions.  I doubt those guys will be asked to guard JV much because they aren't centers.

And how many of these real Centers are there in the league now? JV is a dying breed. 5’s shoot js 

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5 hours ago, King Dork said:

And how many of these real Centers are there in the league now? JV is a dying breed. 5’s shoot js 

True, there aren't many now, but I don't know about dying breed.  The next time a big comes along who is very strong and athletic with a polished post game and is unstoppable down low I'm pretty sure that he will be utilized in such fashion.  Do you think that prime Shaqille O'Neal would not be able to play today, or that they would be forcing him to the three-point line?

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11 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

True, there aren't many now, but I don't know about dying breed.  The next time a big comes along who is very strong and athletic with a polished post game and is unstoppable down low I'm pretty sure that he will be utilized in such fashion.  Do you think that prime Shaqille O'Neal would not be able to play today, or that they would be forcing him to the three-point line?

I think prime Shaq would suffer from his inability to pass from double teams, and he would be double teamed to death.

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35 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

I think prime Shaq would suffer from his inability to pass from double teams, and he would be double teamed to death.

Possibly.

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

I think prime Shaq would suffer from his inability to pass from double teams, and he would be double teamed to death.

I think you are not remembering Shaq very well. He was double teamed to death back then, too. He was EXCELLENT passing out of double teams.

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1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I think you are not remembering Shaq very well. He was double teamed to death back then, too. He was EXCELLENT passing out of double teams.

I remember him more grinding his defenders to dust, but you may be right my memory may fail me.

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6 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

True, there aren't many now, but I don't know about dying breed.  The next time a big comes along who is very strong and athletic with a polished post game and is unstoppable down low I'm pretty sure that he will be utilized in such fashion.  Do you think that prime Shaqille O'Neal would not be able to play today, or that they would be forcing him to the three-point line?

Ain’t no prime Shaq’s Walking through that door. Dude was a once in a lifetime type of human specimen, nothing like him before him or since. And dudes don’t practice in the post anymore, every big man thinks their KD these days. 

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6 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I remember him more grinding his defenders to dust, but you may be right my memory may fail me.

He did that, too.

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8 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I think you are not remembering Shaq very well. He was double teamed to death back then, too. He was EXCELLENT passing out of double teams.

I dont know if I can say he was excellent, but under the guidance of Phil Jackson and the triangle he certainly became good enough to make you pay if your double was too aggressive or poorly executed.

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7 hours ago, King Dork said:

Ain’t no prime Shaq’s Walking through that door. Dude was a once in a lifetime type of human specimen, nothing like him before him or since. And dudes don’t practice in the post anymore, every big man thinks their KD these days. 

Okay, so the NBA will never change and all bigs are going to play like wings from here on out until forever.  I don't believe that.  As I said, If you have a big that can punish the opposition inside you will see defensive adjustments and you won't likely see the likes of PJ Tucker guarding him for most of the game.  I can't imagine that we will be putting Brandon Clarke on Nikola Jokic or Dwight Howard or Vucevic either.

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On 9/16/2019 at 8:25 PM, smit-tay griz said:

Okay, so the NBA will never change and all bigs are going to play like wings from here on out until forever.  I don't believe that.  As I said, If you have a big that can punish the opposition inside you will see defensive adjustments and you won't likely see the likes of PJ Tucker guarding him for most of the game.  I can't imagine that we will be putting Brandon Clarke on Nikola Jokic or Dwight Howard or Vucevic either.

I'd agree, you don't put him against starting centers. You could put him against Khem Birch, javale mcghee, Kyle O'Quinn, Adebayo, Ed Davis, e.t.c. Mostly backup centers that don't rely on strength. I think he'd hold his own against most of those players, obviously some are decently strong, so he could struggle a little bit against a couple of them. Long term Jaren is the one that should be guarding those guys you mentioned. He's got the size and length to matchup, just needs to get stronger, same could be said for both of them. 

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like i've suggested countless times, unless JV ****s the bed and plays lousy with the strengths he is expected to bring....protect the rim, set the picks, exploit any smaller center match-ups etc...he is the starting center for 2019 and beyond to contract expiry..he's 27, there is no issue with him handling the minutes and the big men in the league...and he is a value for the Grizz with that contract....for all the reasons previously stated while JJJ should be using sparingly at center, lets not bang him up...

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