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I❤️JV

Free agency 2020

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15 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Question -> have you seen it quoted anywhere other than posts on this board that 13 doesn't want to be a 5?

I have seen it repeated time and time again here - but no where provides a direct quote.

I saw reports of him working with KG ... a scrawny , quick, long -ANGRY - all-star.

Nothing saying anyhtring about his preference of position...

(not going at you at all - I just noticed that you and I used the word IF )

I asked the same question earlier in the thread, or maybe it was a different thread. I asked for a link and nobody could provide one. I like him at center in the modern NBA.

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4 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I'd prefer Jaren to continue to play PF. At PF, he has good size. At C, he's undersized. Despite the changes in the league, when everything else is equal, size still matters. So my preference for him going forward is primarily a PF who can fill in at C in a pinch.

He is 6'11 and 240lbs, that's plenty big enough to play the 5. Al Horford is 6'10 and 245 lbs and nobody is saying he can't play the 5.

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9 minutes ago, KyleB said:

He is 6'11 and 240lbs, that's plenty beg enough to play the 5. Al Horford is 6'10 and 245 lbs and nobody is saying he can't play the 5.

Horford played it by default tho.   He always preferred playing PF which is what he will be doing in Philly.    Just like Duncan never wanted to be a C either.  

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Horford has been a center his entire career, 5 time all star and all NBA in 2011. You telling me he wanted to play power forward but couldn't beat out Marcus Morris for the position?

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5 hours ago, CoolHandGriz said:

So draft another big man and overpay for an above average wing instead of just drafting a wing with incredible upside? Yeah that makes sense...

Save that max money that you're overpaying and use it on good restricted free agents like a Malik Beasley or Chris Lavert. This is much  more fiscally responsible when building a young team. Can add more quality pieces this way as well.

Where in the hell did you get this idea from? Not one thing I said is remotely close to this. In fact what I said resembles the second paragraph you wrote.

Your first comment, the one I quoted, said not to spend money now, save it for your own players. I said that was the worst idea I have heard because once you pay your own people, you won't have cap space. So get free agents now then go over the cap for your own players. I would be after a player like Beasley. Only reason I wouldn't be after Lavert is his injury history. But you're kidding yourself if you don't think those guys are getting max or near max offers.

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3 hours ago, KyleB said:

He is 6'11 and 240lbs, that's plenty big enough to play the 5. Al Horford is 6'10 and 245 lbs and nobody is saying he can't play the 5.

No one is saying Jaren can't play C. I said he'd be an undersized center. Guess what- Horford is an undersized center. Undersized does not mean not good. Draymond plays both PF and C. He is undersized at both. Still good. As good as Horford is at 6'10", if everything else stayed the same, he'd be better at 7'1".

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6 hours ago, KyleB said:

Horford has been a center his entire career, 5 time all star and all NBA in 2011. You telling me he wanted to play power forward but couldn't beat out Marcus Morris for the position?

I think it was Morris was better than the other best Center option. 

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The league projects a cap of $116M for 2020/21 season and a $141M threshold when the luxury tax kicks in.

Memphis in 2020 free agency will have about $50M and can do 1 of 3 things.

1 Get free agents for the future.(younger than 26)

2 Get free agents for the present.(older than 26)

3 Take bad contracts for compensation.

Before exploring all the (limited) options lets see who else are flush with cap space in the summer 2020 and are competitors for the free agents or bad contracts. 

More than 30M

Toronto Raptors 93M

Atlanta Hawks 83M

Cleveland Cavaliers 53M

New York Knicks 50M

New Orleans Pelicans 40M

Charlotte Hornets 38M

San Antonio Spurs 35M

Sacramento Kings 35M

 

So we have 8 competitors for the best available free agents and bad contracts.

IMO Memphis is much more attractive destination (combine for playing and living in a city)  than Charlotte and Cleveland on par with Atlanta marginal underdogs against New Orleans and Sacramento, underdogs against San Antonio and New York. Toronto is a favorite for the International players and might be underdog for US players as many players just do not want to play outside USA. So if every team goes after the same free agent Grizz is 5th option at best.

 

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On 9/8/2019 at 10:05 AM, I❤️JV said:

The league projects a cap of $116M for 2020/21 season and a $141M threshold when the luxury tax kicks in.

Memphis in 2020 free agency will have about $50M and can do 1 of 3 things.

1 Get free agents for the future.(younger than 26)

2 Get free agents for the present.(older than 26)

3 Take bad contracts for compensation.

Before exploring all the (limited) options lets see who else are flush with cap space in the summer 2020 and are competitors for the free agents or bad contracts. 

More than 30M

Toronto Raptors 93M

Atlanta Hawks 83M

Cleveland Cavaliers 53M

New York Knicks 50M

New Orleans Pelicans 40M

Charlotte Hornets 38M

San Antonio Spurs 35M

Sacramento Kings 35M

 

So we have 8 competitors for the best available free agents and bad contracts.

IMO Memphis is much more attractive destination (combine for playing and living in a city)  than Charlotte and Cleveland on par with Atlanta marginal underdogs against New Orleans and Sacramento, underdogs against San Antonio and New York. Toronto is a favorite for the International players and might be underdog for US players as many players just do not want to play outside USA. So if every team goes after the same free agent Grizz is 5th option at best.

 

I say chase one or two young restricted free agents. In addition to luring them off their current team, in order to beat out these other teams, we will have to over pay. But make the offers. Make these other teams beat us out. Make their current teams overpay to keep them. If we lose out, then use the cap space to take on bad contracts in exchange for picks.

My top targets would be (in this order): 1) Jaylen Brown 2) Malik Beasley 3) Otto Porter 4) Allonzo Trier (assuming he builds on last season's play) 5) Buddy Hield (Buddy would be higher except he is turning 27 in December and I think Sacramento gives him a max before the end of the season. If that doesn't happen, move Buddy up my list to #3) 6) Joe Harris

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Some lower level free agents I'd be interested in are Denzel Valentine and Willy Hernangomez (love his rebounding and shooting for a back up big man)

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On 9/8/2019 at 11:05 AM, I❤️JV said:

The league projects a cap of $116M for 2020/21 season and a $141M threshold when the luxury tax kicks in.

Memphis in 2020 free agency will have about $50M and can do 1 of 3 things.

1 Get free agents for the future.(younger than 26)

2 Get free agents for the present.(older than 26)

3 Take bad contracts for compensation.

Before exploring all the (limited) options lets see who else are flush with cap space in the summer 2020 and are competitors for the free agents or bad contracts. 

More than 30M

Toronto Raptors 93M

Atlanta Hawks 83M

Cleveland Cavaliers 53M

New York Knicks 50M

New Orleans Pelicans 40M

Charlotte Hornets 38M

San Antonio Spurs 35M

Sacramento Kings 35M

 

So we have 8 competitors for the best available free agents and bad contracts.

IMO Memphis is much more attractive destination (combine for playing and living in a city)  than Charlotte and Cleveland on par with Atlanta marginal underdogs against New Orleans and Sacramento, underdogs against San Antonio and New York. Toronto is a favorite for the International players and might be underdog for US players as many players just do not want to play outside USA. So if every team goes after the same free agent Grizz is 5th option at best.

 

There is a fourth option:. Trade assets for a good player

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On 9/8/2019 at 11:05 AM, I❤️JV said:

The league projects a cap of $116M for 2020/21 season and a $141M threshold when the luxury tax kicks in.

Memphis in 2020 free agency will have about $50M and can do 1 of 3 things.

1 Get free agents for the future.(younger than 26)

2 Get free agents for the present.(older than 26)

3 Take bad contracts for compensation.

Before exploring all the (limited) options lets see who else are flush with cap space in the summer 2020 and are competitors for the free agents or bad contracts. 

More than 30M

Toronto Raptors 93M

Atlanta Hawks 83M

Cleveland Cavaliers 53M

New York Knicks 50M

New Orleans Pelicans 40M

Charlotte Hornets 38M

San Antonio Spurs 35M

Sacramento Kings 35M

 

So we have 8 competitors for the best available free agents and bad contracts.

IMO Memphis is much more attractive destination (combine for playing and living in a city)  than Charlotte and Cleveland on par with Atlanta marginal underdogs against New Orleans and Sacramento, underdogs against San Antonio and New York. Toronto is a favorite for the International players and might be underdog for US players as many players just do not want to play outside USA. So if every team goes after the same free agent Grizz is 5th option at best.

 

We can pretty much eliminate the spurs and kings from that list. Spurs seem like they'll re-sign DeRozan, which will be max or near max. 

Kings are almost guaranteed to re-sign Hield at a near max level. Probably will want to re-sign Bogdanovic, but he might cost too much. They'd have to get rid of Belicja and Ariza to get any significant amount of cap space anyway. 

I think we can all agree we don't have to worry about the Hornets. 

The Raptors are interesting. Siakam gets the max, Fred gets a contract probably close to what brogdon got, probably a little less. Even with those two moves, they'll have 50 million left. They'll have to decide if they want to bring back Ibaka, Gasol, and Lowry. If they don't bring any of them back, or only 1, then they won't be that good and therefore not as attractive. Who knows what they'll do. 

Atlanta definitely has the most envious position. They'll need to be smart about not overpaying though as in the next couple of years they'll have to extend all their young guys. They don't want to get in salary cap hell by signing bad contracts. They already have a good young core though. 

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I'd like Jaren to play C after this year. That would allow Clarke to start at PF. That would give us JV off the bench, a role we know he will thrive in. Also means we can give good minutes to Bruno. There's so many combinations that can work with those 4. That gives us at least 3 quality starters under 24 as well.

Obviously we'll have to see if Josh Jackson, Dillon, grayson, or maybe Melton can pan out as a starter. Even if we just get 1 of those 4, means we only need to find 1 starter in free agency. 

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9 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

I'd like Jaren to play C after this year. That would allow Clarke to start at PF. That would give us JV off the bench, a role we know he will thrive in. Also means we can give good minutes to Bruno. There's so many combinations that can work with those 4. That gives us at least 3 quality starters under 24 as well.

Obviously we'll have to see if Josh Jackson, Dillon, grayson, or maybe Melton can pan out as a starter. Even if we just get 1 of those 4, means we only need to find 1 starter in free agency. 

NO....just NO

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

I'd like Jaren to play C after this year. That would allow Clarke to start at PF. That would give us JV off the bench, a role we know he will thrive in. Also means we can give good minutes to Bruno. There's so many combinations that can work with those 4. That gives us at least 3 quality starters under 24 as well.

Obviously we'll have to see if Josh Jackson, Dillon, grayson, or maybe Melton can pan out as a starter. Even if we just get 1 of those 4, means we only need to find 1 starter in free agency. 

Here we go again, trying to force Jaren into a position of convenience to cater for others, who may or may not be any good, rather than picking the best guy at their best position smh.

 

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2 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

I'd like Jaren to play C after this year. That would allow Clarke to start at PF. That would give us JV off the bench, a role we know he will thrive in. Also means we can give good minutes to Bruno. There's so many combinations that can work with those 4. That gives us at least 3 quality starters under 24 as well.

Obviously we'll have to see if Josh Jackson, Dillon, grayson, or maybe Melton can pan out as a starter. Even if we just get 1 of those 4, means we only need to find 1 starter in free agency. 

JV did not sign up to be a bench player. He is starter material. Grizz management are not paying him $15 mill/yr to come off the bench. Jaren could be a 5 down the road, but not right now.

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8 hours ago, I❤️JV said:

NO....just NO

Obviously a JV fanboy doesn't want that. Doesn't mean it isn't what's best for us. 

5 hours ago, GameOn said:

JV did not sign up to be a bench player. He is starter material. Grizz management are not paying him $15 mill/yr to come off the bench. Jaren could be a 5 down the road, but not right now.

This year it makes sense for JV to start at C. It allows Jaren to mature more and JV to contribute this year. JV adds more value to a bench role on this team where his main attributes (scoring, rebounding) to shine. Also, he'd be even more efficient, as there's not going to be many bench players that can stop him. Jaren and Clarke is incredibly versatile on defense and offense.

It also gives us championship caliber depth. The best teams don't just have a starting 5, they essentially have a starting 7 or 8. Like Toronto, when you needed to spell Marc or Lowry, you could bring in Fred or Ibaka and not miss a beat. Andre Igoudala didn't hardly ever start for the Warriors, but does anyone think he was less important to their success because he came off the bench? No, he won a finals MVP as a bench player. They paid him more than we are paying JV right now as well. 

Not for this year, but next year if we could have JV putting up stats like his total stats last year (average between his time in Memphis and Toronto), than we'd be set. That's 15.6 points, 8.6 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, and 1.4 assists in only 22.3 minutes a game. That's exactly what we need. He'd be sort of between a starter and a bench player, a sixth man if you will. The nice part is, like I said earlier, he could come in for Jaren or Clarke, or him and Bruno could come in together. All 3 of them can play with him, so it works at nicely. 

7 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Here we go again, trying to force Jaren into a position of convenience to cater for others, who may or may not be any good, rather than picking the best guy at their best position smh.

 

It's not forcing Jaren into a position. In the modern NBA, that will most likely be his position. Not saying he can't play PF, because he still will, but him playing C just opens up the offense that much more and allows the defense to be more versatile. You also don't think Clarke will be good? That's a bad take I'd say. It also doesn't mean JV isn't playing C, which is his best position. 

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21 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Obviously a JV fanboy doesn't want that. Doesn't mean it isn't what's best for us. 

This year it makes sense for JV to start at C. It allows Jaren to mature more and JV to contribute this year. JV adds more value to a bench role on this team where his main attributes (scoring, rebounding) to shine. Also, he'd be even more efficient, as there's not going to be many bench players that can stop him. Jaren and Clarke is incredibly versatile on defense and offense.

It also gives us championship caliber depth. The best teams don't just have a starting 5, they essentially have a starting 7 or 8. Like Toronto, when you needed to spell Marc or Lowry, you could bring in Fred or Ibaka and not miss a beat. Andre Igoudala didn't hardly ever start for the Warriors, but does anyone think he was less important to their success because he came off the bench? No, he won a finals MVP as a bench player. They paid him more than we are paying JV right now as well. 

Not for this year, but next year if we could have JV putting up stats like his total stats last year (average between his time in Memphis and Toronto), than we'd be set. That's 15.6 points, 8.6 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, and 1.4 assists in only 22.3 minutes a game. That's exactly what we need. He'd be sort of between a starter and a bench player, a sixth man if you will. The nice part is, like I said earlier, he could come in for Jaren or Clarke, or him and Bruno could come in together. All 3 of them can play with him, so it works at nicely. 

It's not forcing Jaren into a position. In the modern NBA, that will most likely be his position. Not saying he can't play PF, because he still will, but him playing C just opens up the offense that much more and allows the defense to be more versatile. You also don't think Clarke will be good? That's a bad take I'd say. It also doesn't mean JV isn't playing C, which is his best position. 

Who knows how Clarke will be. I hope he will be great but just because you do well at summer league doesn't mean anything.

Lets just leave C, PF and PG positions alone. The SG and SF positions are completely up for grabs, both starter and 2nd unit positions. If we are going to experiment, thats the positions to do that. IMO there is no one on the roster that is a lock for those positions.

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1 minute ago, BigHunkALove said:

Who knows how Clarke will be. I hope he will be great but just because you do well at summer league doesn't mean anything.

Lets just leave C, PF and PG positions alone. The SG and SF positions are completely up for grabs, both starter and 2nd unit positions. If we are going to experiment, thats the positions to do that. IMO there is no one on the roster that is a lock for those positions.

I agree for this year. Hopefully by next year we can fill at least one of those starting the wing positions with someone on the roster (Brooks, Jackson, Melton, Allen, Marko, Kyle, maybe even Konchar) and one via free agency (Bogdonovic, Jaylen Brown, Malik Beasley). I think we'll have a good bench with those guys I mentioned, plus Brandon, Bruno, Crowder, and Tyus. You can find 2 out of that group that can contribute to a bench role.

Either way, giving Jaren another year to acclimate to the Center position and NBA in general is a perfect storm. For us to start regularly making the playoffs (and this goes for any team, especially young ones), you have to increase your efficiency. A lot of young teams and players put up stats, but don't do it efficiently. It's what is plaguing the Suns and the Cavs right now. Allowing JV to come off the bench clearly will make him more efficient. Allowing Jaren to space the floor against other 5s that might sag off him more, and use his quickness to get around them, should in theory make him more efficient as well. Clarke is going to be incredibly efficient as well, considering he was second in the country in that category last year. Bruno being used largely as a catch and shoot 3 guy and in transition will help him improve as well, plus they'll be receiving passes from Ja and Tyus, two of the best young passers in the league.  

I think that is certainly the best course of action going forward, just because it makes us more versatile and gives us better depth. It also completely modernizes us. 

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Jaren may eventually move to C at some point in his career, but there is no way he starts there and JV comes off the bench as long as he can't crack 5 rebounds per game.

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JV will NEVER comes off the bench in Memphis.

When the season starts and Jonas numbers are 22/12 only extreme JV haters will be talking about JV off the bench.

p.s. JAREN DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY THE 5 

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On 9/10/2019 at 2:37 PM, kevofrommempho said:

There is a fourth option:. Trade assets for a good player

I do not see it as an option for now. Plan should be to collect every single asset available, get to contender status and only then go all in for the kill. I do not see contender status for at least 2 years. So to trade asset for a player now is how you end up with owning Boston a pick or burning 2 second rounders for Holiday.

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2 hours ago, I❤️JV said:

I do not see it as an option for now. Plan should be to collect every single asset available, get to contender status and only then go all in for the kill. I do not see contender status for at least 2 years. So to trade asset for a player now is how you end up with owning Boston a pick or burning 2 second rounders for Holiday.

What if next off-season new management for the Wizards decide it's time to do a full rebuild and put Bradley Beal on the market.  You wouldn't want the Grizzlies to try to put together a package of picks (assuming we have a high pick next year) to try to get Beal?  What about Devin Booker?  Or Otto Porter?  You never know who is going to be available.

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