KyleB

Kyle vs Bruno

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Yet they were willing to pay Rudy Gay and Marco Bellinelli before him.

You can still move the ball with Kyle out there, however, if he is standing in a spot where he is no threat (usually the corner) and is forced to receive the ball then the action stops. Its really no need to make this harder than it is. He isnt a good perimeter offensive player.

Rudy only started 6 games when Kyle was there, and those were games that Kyle was out. Kyle started the second most games for the Spurs that season.

Think back 5 seasons ago when Mike Miller was on the team. He was second among qualified NBA players that season for 3pt field goal percentage, and it was an all time franchise high at .459 %(league qualified 82 or more 3 pt'ers made). Not one poster here or any other Grizzlies fan ever said "look at the spacing Miller creates". Instead we all complained that we had a 46% 3pt shooter that was hardly ever open. We will not have a better 3pt shooter than Miller was that season. Miller was one of the best and most respected 3pt shooters back then, but he proved that just being out there was not enough. His court presence was not enough to open up the lane. Static offenses will never create enough spacing no matter how good your shooter is. 

 

1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I agree with you that spacing is dictated by player movement and ball movement. I disagree with you that Kyle is automatically good at spacing or he wouldn't have played four seasons with the Spurs. I think Pop does a great job working around players warts. Also I think the argument is that given the same system and player movement, a player who is a better shooter and a more willing shooter will provide more space than a player who isn't. If you're arguing that Kyle's passing makes him better at spacing, I guess I can see your argument. But I don't agree with it. I just tend to think shooting is more important than passing if the same system and player movement is in place.

Kyle started ahead of Rudy Gay his last season there. If shooting trumped ball and player movement, Rudy should have started. The Mike Miller example also plays into what I'm saying, the same with the Mark Jackson Warriors and his ISO vs the next season under Kerr with more passing and movement. Also remember, Coach Jenkins is an indirect Popovich product. Ja and JJJ are quick, so you maximize them with more movement, not ISO's. 

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11 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Rudy only started 6 games when Kyle was there, and those were games that Kyle was out. Kyle started the second most games for the Spurs that season.

Think back 5 seasons ago when Mike Miller was on the team. He was second among qualified NBA players that season for 3pt field goal percentage, and it was an all time franchise high at .459 %(league qualified 82 or more 3 pt'ers made). Not one poster here or any other Grizzlies fan ever said "look at the spacing Miller creates". Instead we all complained that we had a 46% 3pt shooter that was hardly ever open. We will not have a better 3pt shooter than Miller was that season. Miller was one of the best and most respected 3pt shooter back then, but he proved that just being out there was not enough. His court presence was not enough to open up the lane. Static offenses will never create enough spacing no matter how good your shooter is. 

 

Kyle started ahead of Rudy Gay his last season there. If shooting trumped ball and player movement, Rudy should have started. The Mike Miller example also plays into what I'm saying, the same with the Mark Jackson Warriors and his ISO vs the next season under Kerr with more passing and movement. Also remember, Coach Jenkins is an indirect Popovich product. Ja and JJJ are quick, so you maximize them with more movement, not ISO's. 

Dude, Rudy was coming off a ruptured achilles. Are you serious? Who did they keep for the same dollars despite a huge age difference?

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Dude, Rudy was coming off a ruptured achilles. Are you serious? Who did they keep for the same dollars despite a huge age difference?

Sorry, I read pay as play. - "Yet they were willing to pay..."

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If it takes ball handlers and movement to create spacing, why did the Lakers not work last year? They had multiple ball handlers (LeBron, Lonzo, Rondo, Lance, Josh Hart) but couldn’t space the floor enough for LeBron. So they went out and got a bunch of spot up shooters this offseason. 

Where is this championship team that was built on using ball handling and play making as spacing. Go ahead and find me a team from the 90’s but that ain’t now. You need shooters to space the floor. 

And anyone who would argue that Mike Miller didn’t space the floor is an idiot. 

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This is a weird discussion. You need all three to create spacing. 

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25 minutes ago, Allen said:

This is a weird discussion. You need all three to create spacing. 

Yeah. You are either the ballhandler, shooter or paint player. What else is there to do when you create movement? Kyle cant shoot, isnt handling over Ja, isnt playing around the rim better than JV/JJJ.  Whats his value? Who cares what he can do in a vacuum, the things he does he doesnt do better than anyone on the court and shooting is the only one of the three that you really cant have too much of. You can have too many in.the paint or too many that need to handle the ball. Its this simple, yet they wanna make it hard.

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yeah. You are either the ballhandler, shooter or paint player. What else is there to do when you create movement? Kyle cant shoot, isnt handling over Ja, isnt playing around the rim better than JV/JJJ.  Whats his value? Who cares what he can do in a vacuum, the things he does he doesnt do better than anyone on the court and shooting is the only one of the three that you really cant have too much of. You can have too many in.the paint or too many that need to handle the ball. Its this simple, yet they wanna make it hard.

Nothing wrong with having a bunch of ball handlers

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Just now, Allen said:

Nothing wrong with having a bunch of ball handlers

If they are ok playing without the ball. Thats what I mean, guys who *need* to handle the rock and are ineffective without it.

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

If they are ok playing without the ball. Thats what I mean, guys who *need* to handle the rock and are ineffective without it.

Anderson isn’t ineffective without the ball. He cuts and posts up

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1 minute ago, Allen said:

Anderson isn’t ineffective without the ball. He cuts and posts up

Yeah. But we got enough post guys. Two are significantly better. Thats the problem. 

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1 minute ago, Allen said:

Anderson isn’t ineffective without the ball. He cuts and posts up

this is why i want slowmo starting at the 2...it gives ja another ballhander in the backcourt...slowmo would be a nightmare match up for nearly every 2 guard in the league...while effective defending them.

ja/slowmo/bruno/3js/jv

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4 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yeah. But we got enough post guys. Two are significantly better. Thats the problem. 

who 3js and jv...howard if he stays...slowmo would give us a post player that can play the 3 or 2 or go ultra big and play the one...GSW made a kill with livingston posting up small pgs/sgs

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40 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

this is why i want slowmo starting at the 2...it gives ja another ballhander in the backcourt...slowmo would be a nightmare match up for nearly every 2 guard in the league...while effective defending them.

ja/slowmo/bruno/3js/jv

 

You should really put on a comedy special. 

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18 hours ago, Father Pat said:

Rudy only started 6 games when Kyle was there, and those were games that Kyle was out. Kyle started the second most games for the Spurs that season.

Think back 5 seasons ago when Mike Miller was on the team. He was second among qualified NBA players that season for 3pt field goal percentage, and it was an all time franchise high at .459 %(league qualified 82 or more 3 pt'ers made). Not one poster here or any other Grizzlies fan ever said "look at the spacing Miller creates". Instead we all complained that we had a 46% 3pt shooter that was hardly ever open. We will not have a better 3pt shooter than Miller was that season. Miller was one of the best and most respected 3pt shooters back then, but he proved that just being out there was not enough. His court presence was not enough to open up the lane. Static offenses will never create enough spacing no matter how good your shooter is. 

 

Kyle started ahead of Rudy Gay his last season there. If shooting trumped ball and player movement, Rudy should have started. The Mike Miller example also plays into what I'm saying, the same with the Mark Jackson Warriors and his ISO vs the next season under Kerr with more passing and movement. Also remember, Coach Jenkins is an indirect Popovich product. Ja and JJJ are quick, so you maximize them with more movement, not ISO's. 

Yes, base your argument on returning from achilles surgery, working his way back into shape Rudy Gay. The same guy shot 31% from 3 that season. Yes that guy was the shooter that we are talking about that could space the floor. That was Pop having to decide between dumpster fire shooting (Kyle) and just trash shooting (Rudy). If those are your options, pick the guy who will actually pass the ball and is capable of playing defense.

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16 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

 

You should really put on a comedy special. 

ahh...you must be looking for work...sorry i don't have a clown role.

well look what i found a 6'9 guy that can't caught shoot a lick playing Pg/SG for a championship team.

 

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5 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

ahh...you must be looking for work...sorry i don't have a clown role.

well look what i found a 6'9 guy that can't caught shoot a lick playing Pg/SG for a championship team.

 

 

Lol, Shaun Livingston plays 15 minutes a game and is surrounded by the greatest shooting backcourt of ALL time. 

 

You want to start Kyle around a rookie PG and an unproven low IQ Bruno. This is basketball not merely a height contest. 

But I do enjoy your clown outfits though. 

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53 minutes ago, Teddy.B said:

 

Lol, Shaun Livingston plays 15 minutes a game and is surrounded by the greatest shooting backcourt of ALL time. 

 

You want to start Kyle around a rookie PG and an unproven low IQ Bruno. This is basketball not merely a height contest. 

But I do enjoy your clown outfits though. 

see this shows your stupidity...livingston rarely played with steph and klay...like i said he played pg/sg and a lil bit of sf...im not going to argue with you because your not on the same intellectual plain as i.

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2 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

see this shows your stupidity...livingston rarely played with steph and klay...like i said he played pg/sg and a lil bit of sf...im not going to argue with you because your not on the same intellectual plain as i.

 

Oh don't be so sensitive I can't get angry at you, you bring so much laughter into my life. 

 

I skipped past your ridiculous posts for a long time because you think what you say to be true. It was just sad. Then every time I read one it just makes me laugh. So now I read it for the comedic effect. 

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6 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

 

Oh don't be so sensitive I can't get angry at you, you bring so much laughter into my life. 

 

I skipped past your ridiculous posts for a long time because you think what you say to be true. It was just sad. Then every time I read one it just makes me laugh. So now I read it for the comedic effect. 

hey you going to let me popoff aint you...where else can i do that with out consequences 😌

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On 8/2/2019 at 9:10 PM, Allen said:

This is a weird discussion. You need all three to create spacing. 

This is my point. It’s being made to be a situation where all you need on the court are ball handlers, no, you need balance. Ball handlers, post players and shooters. The things he does well he doesn’t do as well as Ja, JJJ and JV, so instead of a complement his game would be a Hinderance to them occupying the same space. To maximize the talents of the important guys on the team you need shooters to balance the floor.  

 

15 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

see this shows your stupidity...livingston rarely played with steph and klay...like i said he played pg/sg and a lil bit of sf...im not going to argue with you because your not on the same intellectual plain as i.

 But you agree that he played like 15 mins a game? That’s the point, Kyle is an excellent piece off the bench probably even the 6th man, but not as a starter. His game doesn’t fit with the set in stone starters. 

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2 hours ago, King Dork said:

This is my point. It’s being made to be a situation where all you need on the court are ball handlers, no, you need balance. Ball handlers, post players and shooters. The things he does well he doesn’t do as well as Ja, JJJ and JV, so instead of a complement his game would be a Hinderance to them occupying the same space. To maximize the talents of the important guys on the team you need shooters to balance the floor.  

 

 But you agree that he played like 15 mins a game? That’s the point, Kyle is an excellent piece off the bench probably even the 6th man, but not as a starter. His game doesn’t fit with the set in stone starters. 

Nobody on the team is a long term answer at SF. Anderson is probably the best option we have for this coming season though 

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2 hours ago, King Dork said:

This is my point. It’s being made to be a situation where all you need on the court are ball handlers, no, you need balance. Ball handlers, post players and shooters. The things he does well he doesn’t do as well as Ja, JJJ and JV, so instead of a complement his game would be a Hinderance to them occupying the same space. To maximize the talents of the important guys on the team you need shooters to balance the floor.  

 

 But you agree that he played like 15 mins a game? That’s the point, Kyle is an excellent piece off the bench probably even the 6th man, but not as a starter. His game doesn’t fit with the set in stone starters. 

he played close to 20mins a game his first 3 years at GSW...which is good considering he was playing behind curry/thompson/iggy...kyle shouldnt be playing behind no other 2/3 on this roster...iggy and crowder are the best option talent wise (maybe) but neither are expect to be here next season.

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1 hour ago, Allen said:

Nobody on the team is a long term answer at SF. Anderson is probably the best option we have for this coming season though 

 

39 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

he played close to 20mins a game his first 3 years at GSW...which is good considering he was playing behind curry/thompson/iggy...kyle shouldnt be playing behind no other 2/3 on this roster...iggy and crowder are the best option talent wise (maybe) but neither are expect to be here next season.

Once again, it’s not about whose the best player. You want to argue he’s a better player than any 2/3 on the roster? I don’t think so but your opinion is your opinion. This is about what’s best for the development of Ja and Jaren, and allowing them to play in the same system that they will ultimately be successful playing in is more important in developing them than playing the dude who is best at the position this season. 

As has been said, no one on the roster is a real fit for the future of the team at SF, so why do we care who’s the better player for this season? It’s about development of the core of this roster. Not focusing on playing a dude who on a contending team wouldn’t get more than 20 minutes a game, if that. 

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