KyleB

Kyle vs Bruno

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Parker didn’t shoot 3s but he was automatic from mid range. He could shoot 

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29 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I really think this thread should be expanded to who is best Starting SF option.   Kyle is a better player than Bruno yet Bruno may be a better fit but its too hard to know right for sure.     

But we actually have more options at SF than those 2.   Dillon, Josh and Jae all were drafted as SF's.    I am sure more appealing arguments can be made for them over both Slomo and Bruno.  

That's fine, expand all you want.

But I don't see Josh or Jae as long term options, I doubt either is on the roster next season. The team is in development mode so I dont see the point in playing guys who are not part of the long term plan big minutes. You could make an argument that having Jae in there as a stabilizing veteran presence would be beneficial and I think that is a legit argument but I see no value in playing Jackson unless he shows something early on. If they do not pick up his option before the deadline to do so then I see no point in playing him after that deadline passes. And while I agree Dillon's best position is the three, on this roster if he is the three who starts a the 2?

Really all I was trying to get at was which would benefit Ja more next season, having another shooter on the floor with him or another ball handler. Whether Bruno or Kyle are shooters or not is really not up for debate as far as I'm concerned, people can claim what they want but most of it is not even really worth replying to. When I refer to shooters, I'm referring to the 3pt shot. Midrange shots do not stretch the floor or open up driving lanes. Also, you don't drive and kick to a midrange shooter. If Ja is going to be effective he is going to need room to operate and some players who can knock down shots when he creates for them.

 

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3 minutes ago, Allen said:

Parker didn’t shoot 3s but he was automatic from mid range. He could shoot 

Exactly.

Magic Johnson was a career .303 3pt shooter, but according to a couple posters he couldn't shoot either. Same with ZBo and his career .273 from 3. Nobody watched Kyle play this past season and during the game threads or in front of their TV's said Kyle couldn't shoot. While watching him play you could easily see what he brought to the team and how he made other players better. His 3pt % was irrelevant to his game as a whole, but some base his total worth on just that. Xbox commandos is my guess.

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It's kinda interesting having so many players who are good enough to play but not so good that they automatically get 35 minutes a night. 

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28 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Exactly.

Magic Johnson was a career .303 3pt shooter, but according to a couple posters he couldn't shoot either. Same with ZBo and his career .273 from 3. Nobody watched Kyle play this past season and during the game threads or in front of their TV's said Kyle couldn't shoot. While watching him play you could easily see what he brought to the team and how he made other players better. His 3pt % was irrelevant to his game as a whole, but some base his total worth on just that. Xbox commandos is my guess.

You keep naming Point Guards. Kyle Anderson is not a PG, so the requirements for the needs of his position and role are vastly different. It’s like saying the dude who is awesome at flipping the burgers would make an excellent store manager just cause he’s awesome at flipping a burger. 

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5 minutes ago, King Dork said:

You keep naming Point Guards. Kyle Anderson is not a PG, so the requirements for the needs of his position and role are vastly different. It’s like saying the dude who is awesome at flipping the burgers would make an excellent store manager just cause he’s awesome at flipping a burger. 

Thanks for pointing out that ZBo was a point guard.

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Let me put this another way. Forget the names or the players and just think of it as shooter vs ball handler. The case for a shooter is that it would spread the floor for him and give him room to drive and an option to kick out to. The case for a ball handler seems to be that it would take pressure off and allow Ja to build confidence while playing off the ball. Ja's strengths all involve having the ball in his hands, how do you expect to build his confidence by taking away the strongest parts of his game? How do you develop a point guard by taking the ball OUT of his hands?

 

I think people are getting too caught up in the players I used as examples, the root of the question is would he benefit more by having another shooter on the floor or another ball handler. I say shooter.

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13 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Thanks for pointing out that ZBo was a point guard.

You have brought up Tony Parker and Magic. I’m ignoring the ZBo comp because he’s not a perimeter player and it makes no sense. 

Also, none of your comps are current since new rules have made the game different than even at the height of grit & grind. 

Once again if you want to say he’s productive, cool. But the argument that he fits with the current core on the floor at the same time as them is not accurate. Space and pace is what this core needs and he can provide neither. 

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1 minute ago, KyleB said:

Let me put this another way. Forget the names or the players and just think of it as shooter vs ball handler. The case for a shooter is that it would spread the floor for him and give him room to drive and an option to kick out to. The case for a ball handler seems to be that it would take pressure off and allow Ja to build confidence playing off the ball. Ja's strengths all involve having the ball in his hands, how do you expect to build his confidence by taking away the strongest parts of his game? How do you develop a point guard by taking the ball OUT of his hands?

 

I think people are getting too caught up in the players I used as examples, the root of the question is would he benefit more by having another shooter on the floor or another ball handler. I say shooter.

Huge difference between a shooter and a respected shooter. The Grizzlies do not have a respected shooter to play alongside of Ja and JJJ. There is no shooter that will space the floor anymore than anyone else with regard to the SF position. Ball movement will be what creates open players, not this fantasy idea of spacing. The key for Ja's development is to minimize frustrating situations that can lead to a loss in confidence. JV will do an excellent job at getting Ja's pick & roll game up to NBA level. That will be a big help. When he gets swarmed or tied up in anyway, he needs a good outlet to keep everything from going to crap. Kyle has a cool head and will help a lot with Ja, especially the first half of the season. 

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Yeah when talking about Kyle vs Bruno and which player benefits JA and Jaren the most you have to take basketball iq into account. Anderson with his iq can help Ja out out there

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1 hour ago, KyleB said:

That's fine, expand all you want.

But I don't see Josh or Jae as long term options, I doubt either is on the roster next season. The team is in development mode so I dont see the point in playing guys who are not part of the long term plan big minutes. You could make an argument that having Jae in there as a stabilizing veteran presence would be beneficial and I think that is a legit argument but I see no value in playing Jackson unless he shows something early on. If they do not pick up his option before the deadline to do so then I see no point in playing him after that deadline passes. And while I agree Dillon's best position is the three, on this roster if he is the three who starts a the 2?

Really all I was trying to get at was which would benefit Ja more next season, having another shooter on the floor with him or another ball handler. Whether Bruno or Kyle are shooters or not is really not up for debate as far as I'm concerned, people can claim what they want but most of it is not even really worth replying to. When I refer to shooters, I'm referring to the 3pt shot. Midrange shots do not stretch the floor or open up driving lanes. Also, you don't drive and kick to a midrange shooter. If Ja is going to be effective he is going to need room to operate and some players who can knock down shots when he creates for them.

 

Josh Jackson 22y  (team option)

Dillon Brooks 23y (expiringl)

Kyle Anderson 25y

Jae Crowder 29y (expiring)

Bruno 23y (expiring)

Josh Jackson is the youngest and has highest ceiling of every potential SF on roster.  So you are saying he shouldn't be one of the longterm development options??    We currently have no idea what FO thinks of him so its too early to already count him out due to off court issues. 

Bruno already is being developed as a Stretch 4/5.   We have no idea what Kyle will be coming off shoulder injury AND he isn't a shooter defacto non-floor spacer.      Dillon doesn't have prototypical size or athleticism of a SF so may be better off at the 2.  Jae is unquestionably the most proven SF option we have.   It may be good to have a couple of actual proven NBA vets(Jae & Jonas)  in the starting lineup with Ja and Jaren to balance it out.   

I agree we are in Development mode.   Therefore, i am sure the Coaching staff will be evaluating which players offer the most potential and best fit around Ja and Jaren.   Josh Jackson is a solid ballhandler/dribbler, defender and offers secondary playmaking with more potential as a scorer over both Kyle and Bruno.    Only Dillon rivals him scoring potential-wise. 

Truthfully Kyle is an awkward fit on paper and no one should deny that.   But he does have a great BBIQ and intangibles which can allow him to fit in most situations.    

Honestly, it's really hard to determine who is best fit between Kyle and Bruno because we have no idea how Ja will adjust.   If Ja's jumpshot immediately translates but him playmaking suffers then Kyle is better fit.   If Ja's playmaking is legit but jumpshot not then Bruno is better fit.   Either way it goes Jae Crowder is still best fit IMHO out of the gate. 

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You have a lot more faith in Jackson than I do. Honestly, I don't think the long term answer at either wing spot is even on the roster at this point. I think shoring up the wings should be the focus of the next offseason. If Edwards is available when they draft (assuming they don't convey) that would be a home run, if they miss out on Edwards it becomes a little more complicated to address the need at the wing spots via the draft. Maybe Hampton if you see him as a 2 and not a 1. Avdija might end up being a top 6 pick if he has a big year on the Sr team at Maccabi Tel Aviv. Maybe draft Avdija and try to sign Malik Beasley away from the Nuggets.

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1 hour ago, King Dork said:

You have brought up Tony Parker and Magic. I’m ignoring the ZBo comp because he’s not a perimeter player and it makes no sense. 

Also, none of your comps are current since new rules have made the game different than even at the height of grit & grind. 

Once again if you want to say he’s productive, cool. But the argument that he fits with the current core on the floor at the same time as them is not accurate. Space and pace is what this core needs and he can provide neither. 

 So you are saying that a player who's career FG%  from 0-3', 3-10', 10-16', 16'-3pt, and corner 3's are all at or above league averages can't shoot because his overall 3pt % is .031% below league averages. Then you add that it only applies to perimeter players that have played recently as if shots go into the hoop differently now then years ago based on position played and "new rules". 

I can't help but to wonder how many accounts KBM has on this site.

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20 minutes ago, KyleB said:

You have a lot more faith in Jackson than I do. Honestly, I don't think the long term answer at either wing spot is even on the roster at this point. I think shoring up the wings should be the focus of the next offseason. If Edwards is available when they draft (assuming they don't convey) that would be a home run, if they miss out on Edwards it becomes a little more complicated to address the need at the wing spots via the draft. Maybe Hampton if you see him as a 2 and not a 1. Avdija might end up being a top 6 pick if he has a big year on the Sr team at Maccabi Tel Aviv. Maybe draft Avdija and try to sign Malik Beasley away from the Nuggets.

Yes i prob do have more faith in Josh Jackson than most on here.   But you have a lot of faith in Bruno who has actually played majority of his minutes for the Grizz as a 4.    He is the least experienced NBA wing out of our entire group.   

You could be right that the longterm solution isn't on the roster currently.  However, that doesn't mean Coach shouldn't try to see what we have.  Seems like they already determined Bruno spot as backup 4/5 from how they used him this past season and in summer league.  

I believe they are trying to find the right wing fit from this pool of players :Dillon, Kyle, Josh, DeAnthony, Jae, and Grayson.   Bruno and Brandon will be backup Bigs.  

I think your underlying premise of which is better next to Ja (Shooter VS Playmaker) is correct.  I just think you are using the wrong examples.   Bruno wont be playing SF minutes. 

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yes i prob do have more faith in Josh Jackson than most on here.   But you have a lot of faith in Bruno who has actually played majority of his minutes for the Grizz as a 4.    He is the least experienced NBA wing out of our entire group.   

You could be right that the longterm solution isn't on the roster currently.  However, that doesn't mean Coach shouldn't try to see what we have.  Seems like they already determined Bruno spot as backup 4/5 from how they used him this past season and in summer league.  

I believe they are trying to find the right wing fit from this pool of players :Dillon, Kyle, Josh, DeAnthony, Jae, and Grayson.   Bruno and Brandon will be backup Bigs.  

I think your underlying premise of which is better next to Ja (Shooter VS Playmaker) is correct.  I just think you are using the wrong examples.   Bruno wont be playing SF minutes. 

Fair enough. I think we agree on most points.

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26 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yes i prob do have more faith in Josh Jackson than most on here.   But you have a lot of faith in Bruno who has actually played majority of his minutes for the Grizz as a 4.    He is the least experienced NBA wing out of our entire group.   

You could be right that the longterm solution isn't on the roster currently.  However, that doesn't mean Coach shouldn't try to see what we have.  Seems like they already determined Bruno spot as backup 4/5 from how they used him this past season and in summer league.  

I believe they are trying to find the right wing fit from this pool of players :Dillon, Kyle, Josh, DeAnthony, Jae, and Grayson.   Bruno and Brandon will be backup Bigs.  

I think your underlying premise of which is better next to Ja (Shooter VS Playmaker) is correct.  I just think you are using the wrong examples.   Bruno wont be playing SF minutes. 

That's exactly it. The long term solution isn't even on the radar yet. I don't believe it's intended to be. The objective is to develop Ja and JJJ as individuals and a tandem. That's the focus for this coming season. Learn to walk before you run mentality. There is no illusion of playoffs for this coming season. All focus should be on getting the cornerstones ready. With that in mind, Kyle (healthy) is a no brainer. He will help make Ja and JJJ better. Once they are set and have their confidence together, start bringing different guys in the mix such as Josh. Things have to be less hectic as possible starting out. JV and Kyle cover that, at least for the first half. Crowder could also solidify that but I don't expect the F.O. to hang on to him. Once Ja has a good grasp on things then it is less hectic and easier to actually see what others can bring to the table.

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3 hours ago, Father Pat said:

Huge difference between a shooter and a respected shooter. The Grizzlies do not have a respected shooter to play alongside of Ja and JJJ. There is no shooter that will space the floor anymore than anyone else with regard to the SF position. Ball movement will be what creates open players, not this fantasy idea of spacing. The key for Ja's development is to minimize frustrating situations that can lead to a loss in confidence. JV will do an excellent job at getting Ja's pick & roll game up to NBA level. That will be a big help. When he gets swarmed or tied up in anyway, he needs a good outlet to keep everything from going to crap. Kyle has a cool head and will help a lot with Ja, especially the first half of the season. 

They literally ignore Kyle just like they use to ignore TA. It’s not about respected shooting, it’s about his shooting being so bad it’s disrespected or completely ignored. They don’t even guard him when he steps out of the paint. 

1 hour ago, Father Pat said:

 So you are saying that a player who's career FG%  from 0-3', 3-10', 10-16', 16'-3pt, and corner 3's are all at or above league averages can't shoot because his overall 3pt % is .031% below league averages. Then you add that it only applies to perimeter players that have played recently as if shots go into the hoop differently now then years ago based on position played and "new rules". 

I can't help but to wonder how many accounts KBM has on this site.

I don’t care what his percentage is, because you clearly don’t understand bad percentages. How about the he only attempts a 3 once every 2 games on only makes a 3 once every 5 games. He’s a net negative a teams spacing. And yes with the way you can play zone and switching defenses now (which use to be illegal) shots do go in deferent. There is a premium on spacing in the league now because defenders can leave their man and sag towards the paint without penalty (it use to be called illegal defense if they left their man to help), the only way to prevent defenders from clogging the lane is to have threats from the perimeter to keep the defender honest.   Bruno can keep the defense honest, Kyle doesn’t even try. 

But in truth, he’s the 3rd option anyway because I believe Jae and Josh should be ahead of even Bruno. 

So yeah when someone only shoots a 3 every 2 games only makes one every 5 and has a below average percentage at 26.5 last year, I think he can’t shoot. Miss me with the Kyle excuses. 

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6 minutes ago, King Dork said:

   Bruno can keep the defense honest, Kyle doesn’t even try. 

Nuts.

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8 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Nuts.

So a 37% 3 pt shooter can’t help spacing but a 27% shooter can? You can’t even really believe that. 

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1 minute ago, King Dork said:

So a 37% 3 pt shooter can’t help spacing but a 27% shooter can? You can’t even really believe that. 

5 year career, 69 total NBA games, has a stretch of 34 games where he hits 36.9% of his threes while he is below league average on his 2's, is still playing summer league, and you think defenses are going to treat him like Kobe.

NUTS.

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6 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

5 year career, 69 total NBA games, has a stretch of 34 games where he hits 36.9% of his threes while he is below league average on his 2's, is still playing summer league, and you think defenses are going to treat him like Kobe.

NUTS.

I don’t expect them to treat him like Kobe, I do expect them to treat him with more respect than they do Kyle who shoots 27% from 3. You can’t dispute that so make up some more sensational comebacks which don’t refute what I’m saying. 

Once again, miss me with the Kyle excuses 

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2 minutes ago, King Dork said:

I don’t expect them to treat him like Kobe, I do expect them to treat him with more respect than they do Kyle who shoots 27% from 3. You can’t dispute that so make up some more sensational comebacks which don’t refute what I’m saying. 

Once again, miss me with the Kyle excuses 

Enough with your garbage. Kyle shot 27% from 3 for one half of a season with an injured shoulder. You pick Kyles worst 1/2 season and Bruno's best 1/2 a season and make generalizations about their careers. NUTS. NUTS. NUTS.

Coach will most likely have Kyle going to the corners where he is a 40% 3pt shooter and come out when Ja is in trouble. And no, the defenses will not sag on Kyle in the corners like they did with T.A.

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There is no use arguing with pat about Kyle's shooting. People ignore Kyle completely when he takes 3s, and even midrange jumpers. Just watch his highlights. He's not a 3 point shooter, it's just as simple as that, but he'll never seem to understand that. 

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6 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Enough with your garbage. Kyle shot 27% from 3 for one half of a season with an injured shoulder. You pick Kyles worst 1/2 season and Bruno's best 1/2 a season and make generalizations about their careers. NUTS. NUTS. NUTS.

Coach will most likely have Kyle going to the corners where he is a 40% 3pt shooter and come out when Ja is in trouble. And no, the defenses will not sag on Kyle in the corners like they did with T.A.

I picked last season. Also Kyle only shoots one every 2 games so putting him in the corner to catch and not shoot is pointless. 

Miss me with the Kyle excuses

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