KyleB

Kyle vs Bruno

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Both combo forwards are good defenders, Bruno has low basketball IQ and is not much of a playmaker but can shoot the 3 ball and space the floor, Kyle has high basketball IQ and is a playmaker but doesn't shoot the three. Which do you think would help Ja more as a starter at the small forward position, Kyle helping take pressure off him as a ball handler and playmaker or Bruno spacing the floor for him to give him better driving lanes and a better kick-out option?

For this exercise, pretend Brooks is strictly a 2 and not an option at small forward, I want this discussion to focus on Kyle and Bruno and am not interested in discussing other options who may be able to play minutes at the three.

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Kyle can play up to four different positions on the court. Bruno can at best play two positions but his best position is at PF. 

Bruno takes a lot of threes but doesn't really make a lot of threes. Kyle hasn't taken a lot of threes in the past but has also had shoulder issues that may have limited his desire to shoot them. 

Kyle can help with play-making, spot up shooting, rebounding and defense. Bruno will most likely camp at the three point line and take a bunch of long shots.

If the Grizzlies are limited to only having Kyle and Bruno at the three then Kyle is the clear choice today in my opinion assuming he is healthy.  

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Good question.  And I'm answering this from the standpoint of Ja being in the game, and also making the assumption that the coach has to make a choice between playing either Kyle or Bruno (which is admittedly simplistic).

Early in the game. I'm assuming we'll usually be pushing the pace.  That seems to favor Bruno to me.  Excellent athlete.  Very good shot blocker.

If it's a fourth quarter, grind it out half-court situation - that's when I could see Kyle being in the game with Ja, especially if the opposing team has a dynamic shooting guard or small forward.  Bruno would struggle defensively compared to Kyle in that situation, and Kyle's BBIQ would be important offensively when the value of possessions are magnified.

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37 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

 

Bruno takes a lot of threes but doesn't really make a lot of threes.

Bruno shot 36.9% from 3 last season, the league average is 35.5%.

38% is the benchmark to be considered a "good" 3 pt shooter, he was basically 1 percentage point away from hitting that benchmark last season.

Bruno was 4th on the team in 3pt shooting last season, 2 of the three ahead of him are no longer on the roster. For comparison, Gasol was 12th on the team at a 34.4% clip and JJJ was 8th at a 35.9% clip.

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I don't see bruno as a SF at all. He's a stretch 4 or small ball 5. Between the two, obviously Kyle starts at the 3. Now, I'd rather have Josh or Jae start at the 3 as both are better 3 point shooters and more athletic. 

Up front I like the pairings of Jaren/JV, Bruno/JV, Bruno/Jaren, Clarke/Jaren, Clarke/Bruno. Essentially, just don't like Clarke and JV with each other, as both do most of their damage near the basket and JV isn't switchable like jaren and bruno. 

A rotation of Dillon, Grayson, Josh, Jae, Kyle I guess, and potentially Marko gives you good size and shooting (minus Kyle on shooting). 

Kyle is probably best used for defensive matchups, he was fantastic against tobias last year. I think he faired pretty well against lebron. If we go against bigger SFs, I think that's when he should play as he has the best size/length of our wings. 

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Kyle could easily put up a 5pts 5ast 3stl 5rebounds box score at his best while playing great defence.

While it's not sexy or flashy is exatly what we will need especially on half court situations.

 

Bruno is also a good player especially if an injury happends or one of our bigs needs some rest.

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I would prefer having Slo Mo/Bruno pick and rolls off the bench, but someone still has to start at the 3.  Not even sure who starts at the 2.

Bruno probably has to play with either Jaren or Clarke -- although I would experiment with a few lineups that feature ALL THREE forwards.

I would guess Bruno is used exclusively in small-ball lineups off the bench.

Does Yuta get some of Kyle Anderson's playing time?

I guess we should make Kyle Anderson our 6th man who focuses on defense and ball movement/play making.  Don't see him being a great fit, either with our starting unit led by Ja (with very little shooting) or a bench mob quarterbacked by Tyus Jones (with very little shooting).

Kyle Anderson might end up being the odd man out, unless we play him off the bench as a point forward.

Clarke/Bruno might not have a ton of size and might not be dynamic shooters, scorers, or playmakers but they sure did win a lot in summer league.  I would try to optimize minutes of both those guys.  At least 15 minutes a night for both -- probably closer to 25 per game for Brandon Clarke.  

If Dillon Brooks and Jae Crowders start on the wing -- which might be our best least bad wing combo, then Clarke/Bruno (with Grayson Allen, Josh Jackson, and Tyus Jones on the perimeter) headline our bench mob.  Yep, looks like Kyle Anderson is either gonna be our stand-alone 6th man or a guy who becomes the odd man out, the 11th man in a 10 man rotation.

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3 hours ago, pjs said:

Early in the game. I'm assuming we'll usually be pushing the pace.  That seems to favor Bruno to me.  Excellent athlete.  Very good shot blocker.

If it's a fourth quarter, grind it out half-court situation - that's when I could see Kyle being in the game with Ja, especially if the opposing team has a dynamic shooting guard or small forward.  Bruno would struggle defensively compared to Kyle in that situation, and Kyle's BBIQ would be important offensively when the value of possessions are magnified.

This.

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Good question OP! I think it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison though.

 

They are both SF by size, but have completely different skill sets. I think Kyle's lack of shooting and strong abilities to distribute ("make the right play") make him a logical choice as a 6th man. However I do not have any level of confidence in Bruno as a starting SF. 

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Kyle is a nice rotational player, bruno is not developed yet but shows a little improvement, if you're trying to win its Kyle, if your trying to get an undeveloped player some burn and you're not so much concerned with wins its Bruno, with our teams injury history I think both will get their minutes (barring injury)

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3 hours ago, KyleB said:

Bruno shot 36.9% from 3 last season, the league average is 35.5%.

38% is the benchmark to be considered a "good" 3 pt shooter, he was basically 1 percentage point away from hitting that benchmark last season.

Bruno was 4th on the team in 3pt shooting last season, 2 of the three ahead of him are no longer on the roster. For comparison, Gasol was 12th on the team at a 34.4% clip and JJJ was 8th at a 35.9% clip.

Bruno is still unproven as a shooter. He made a couple last year but he hasn’t been a threat from 3 his entire career 

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1 hour ago, ALT GRIND said:

I would prefer having Slo Mo/Bruno pick and rolls off the bench, but someone still has to start at the 3.  Not even sure who starts at the 2.

Bruno probably has to play with either Jaren or Clarke -- although I would experiment with a few lineups that feature ALL THREE forwards.

I would guess Bruno is used exclusively in small-ball lineups off the bench.

Does Yuta get some of Kyle Anderson's playing time?

I guess we should make Kyle Anderson our 6th man who focuses on defense and ball movement/play making.  Don't see him being a great fit, either with our starting unit led by Ja (with very little shooting) or a bench mob quarterbacked by Tyus Jones (with very little shooting).

Kyle Anderson might end up being the odd man out, unless we play him off the bench as a point forward.

Clarke/Bruno might not have a ton of size and might not be dynamic shooters, scorers, or playmakers but they sure did win a lot in summer league.  I would try to optimize minutes of both those guys.  At least 15 minutes a night for both -- probably closer to 25 per game for Brandon Clarke.  

If Dillon Brooks and Jae Crowders start on the wing -- which might be our best least bad wing combo, then Clarke/Bruno (with Grayson Allen, Josh Jackson, and Tyus Jones on the perimeter) headline our bench mob.  Yep, looks like Kyle Anderson is either gonna be our stand-alone 6th man or a guy who becomes the odd man out, the 11th man in a 10 man rotation.

It would be easier to imagine some of these pieces fitting together if we had better shooters on the perimeter, or if even one of Anderson, Clarke, or JV were a threat to hit 3s. If Clarke was even just an average 3 point shooter I'd be willing to pencil him in as the starter at the 4 and go ahead move JJJ to the 5. With our lack of shooting at the guard position, if Anderson is the starter at the three I feel like you need a stretch 4 in the starting lineup. If Clarke were a stretch four you could start Anderson, Clarke, and JJJ at the 3, 4, and 5 and then back them up with Crowder, Bruno, JV. You would have guys who can defend, guys who can score, guys who can rebound, and guys who can stretch the defense in both lineups. You would just have to figure out the 2 guards at that point, assuming Ja and Jones will be the primary options at the 1. At the 2 you are looking at a guy who would make a decent backup as your starter and then for backups you are looking at a bunch of guys who its debatable whether they even belong in the league, unless Josh Jackson can prove he is not a knuckle head and emerges as a viable option.

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25 minutes ago, Allen said:

Bruno is still unproven as a shooter. He made a couple last year but he hasn’t been a threat from 3 his entire career 

His career average is 34.4%, 1.1% off the 2018/2019 league average.

Previous seasons he has shot as high as 66.7% (on 3 attempts) and as low as 0% (on 2 attempts) but all were very low sample sizes so the percentages are unreliable.

The 2018/2019 season was the only season he has had more than 20 attempts from 3 in a season his entire career, and he went 96 for 225 for 36.9%. That's really the only percentage you can go by considering the extremely low sample sizes from previous seasons.

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31 minutes ago, KyleB said:

His career average is 34.4%, 1.1% off the 2018/2019 league average.

Previous seasons he has shot as high as 66.7% (on 3 attempts) and as low as 0% (on 2 attempts) but all were very low sample sizes so the percentages are unreliable.

The 2018/2019 season was the only season he has had more than 20 attempts from 3 in a season his entire career, and he went 96 for 225 for 36.9%. That's really the only percentage you can go by considering the extremely low sample sizes from previous seasons.

That’s what I’m saying. With such a low sample size he hasn’t really proven that he’s a reliable 3 point shooter yet 

Before last season he was 8-33 for his entire career . He hasn’t even proven he’s an NBA player yet 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, KyleB said:

It would be easier to imagine some of these pieces fitting together if we had better shooters on the perimeter, or if even one of Anderson, Clarke, or JV were a threat to hit 3s. If Clarke was even just an average 3 point shooter I'd be willing to pencil him in as the starter at the 4 and go ahead move JJJ to the 5. With our lack of shooting at the guard position, if Anderson is the starter at the three I feel like you need a stretch 4 in the starting lineup. If Clarke were a stretch four you could start Anderson, Clarke, and JJJ at the 3, 4, and 5 and then back them up with Crowder, Bruno, JV. You would have guys who can defend, guys who can score, guys who can rebound, and guys who can stretch the defense in both lineups. You would just have to figure out the 2 guards at that point, assuming Ja and Jones will be the primary options at the 1. At the 2 you are looking at a guy who would make a decent backup as your starter and then for backups you are looking at a bunch of guys who its debatable whether they even belong in the league, unless Josh Jackson can prove he is not a knuckle head and emerges as a viable option.

Yeah, it looks like we are limited to starting Jae Crowder at the 3 (veteran 3 and D guy), then we have a log jam off the bench with some guys being on the outside looking in.  I bet we start Dillon Brooks at the 2.

Then that would leave us with Tyus Jones, Josh Jackson, Grayson Allen, Kyle Anderson, Bruno, and Clarke off the bench.  With those 6 there is STILL not enough shooting.  

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3 hours ago, KyleB said:

His career average is 34.4%, 1.1% off the 2018/2019 league average.

Previous seasons he has shot as high as 66.7% (on 3 attempts) and as low as 0% (on 2 attempts) but all were very low sample sizes so the percentages are unreliable.

The 2018/2019 season was the only season he has had more than 20 attempts from 3 in a season his entire career, and he went 96 for 225 for 36.9%. That's really the only percentage you can go by considering the extremely low sample sizes from previous seasons.

he shot 40% in the gleague  if that counts for anything

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I think it will end being Kyle, ppl forget that he impacts the game in several areas,  and that Ja could use special in his rookie season a quality ball handler next to him.

If Josh stays, he will fight with Dillon for the starting sg spot, so Crowder, Caboclo and Clarke will backup both fowards positions. I still want a better backup for JV and would love if Noah be that guy, maybe we already have that guy in Dwight, maybe not, but Im not confident that Plumlee can give us quality 10-18min a game.

The backup pg is solved with Tyus and Melton and the backup sg is Melton/Dillon or Josh.

Then we will have Allen, Guduric and Yuta fighting for playing time. Other vet, that like Noah, I would love have here is Iggy. Could be a mentor Josh and be a x factor in some games to come of the bench and change things defensively. 

 

Ja/Tyus/Melton

Josh/Dillon

SlowMo/Crowder/Iggy

Jaren/Clarke/Cabloco

JV/Noah

 

This would be the main group, but we would play 9-10 players a game.

 

Edited by Ja_Rules

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it simple you start both of them

ja/slowmo/bruno/3js/jv

basically slowmo is the point guard...allowing ja to score playmake off and on the ball...also he takes the tougher defensive matchup for ja...also he could run PNR\PNP with any of the other for players

this also givings ja another playmaker on the court alleviating those rookie mistakes

strong rebounders at every position

all these guys are two-way players in there on right

dillion should be our 6th man

jones/brooks/crowder/clark/howard

or

jones/jackson/brooks/crowder/clark

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3 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Yeah, it looks like we are limited to starting Jae Crowder at the 3 (veteran 3 and D guy), then we have a log jam off the bench with some guys being on the outside looking in.  I bet we start Dillon Brooks at the 2.

Then that would leave us with Tyus Jones, Josh Jackson, Grayson Allen, Kyle Anderson, Bruno, and Clarke off the bench.  With those 6 there is STILL not enough shooting.  

Shoot I forgot about Crowder. Duh, start him.

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I’d love Kyle in a small ball lineup as the 4 and JJJ as the 5. Otherwise, Bruno if it’s a choice between the two. Crowder or Josh Jackson for me. 

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Kyle is far from a point guard. The most he's ever averaged is 3.7 assists per 36. Obviously he's never been a full time point guard, but I don't think he's honestly good enough for full time duties anyway, plus we have enough point guards anyway. So he's back to the role he played last year, but we have a more paint dominant center in the starting lineup so I don't think he'll fit in with the starters. He works off the bench possibly, but I'd rather give those minutes to Josh Jackson or Grayson Allen/Dillon Brooks.  

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1 minute ago, Rdk4121 said:

Kyle is far from a point guard. The most he's ever averaged is 3.7 assists per 36. Obviously he's never been a full time point guard, but I don't think he's honestly good enough for full time duties anyway, plus we have enough point guards anyway. So he's back to the role he played last year, but we have a more paint dominant center in the starting lineup so I don't think he'll fit in with the starters. He works off the bench possibly, but I'd rather give those minutes to Josh Jackson or Grayson Allen/Dillon Brooks.  

Pretty much this. 

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6 hours ago, SC Grizz said:

Good question OP! I think it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison though.

 

They are both SF by size, but have completely different skill sets. I think Kyle's lack of shooting and strong abilities to distribute ("make the right play") make him a logical choice as a 6th man. However I do not have any level of confidence in Bruno as a starting SF. 

+1 Bruno is far from beeing a starter SF. Keep in mind that he was not flashy at all for a large part of the season before having some good run against teams almost on vacation at the end of the season. 

i would prefer Kyle to start if we do not have better option. He is a great defender + passing ability. For scoring we will clearly have to rely on JA, JJJ and JV. 

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Bruno should get minutes at strategic times during the game, but he should not be in the game during crunch time.  

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