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Holidayinn21

Interesting quote from Taylor Jenkins regarding the offense

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"I’d say the endgame just starts with playmaking, whether that’s inside or outside. Obviously, the 3-point shot is going to be big for all of our bigs — himself, Jonas, Jaren, Bruno, Brandon, whoever our bigs are. Being a playmaker is going to be the No. 1 thought. We’re definitely going to be more of a space-the-floor team, so that 3-point shot is going to be key"

He was there in ATL when Horford became  a stretch 5. Brook Lopez this past year became primarily a floor spacing 5. JV the stretch 5 is a realistic possibility. He's attempted 122 the last 2 years. That number will likely double this upcoming year.

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I don't want Jonas living behind the 3pt line. Having the ability is one thing but depending on it is another. Jonas was a beast down low and that's where I'd prefer to see him when he has a favorable matchup.

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5 minutes ago, Grizzly_Bear said:

I don't want Jonas living behind the 3pt line. Having the ability is one thing but depending on it is another. Jonas was a beast down low and that's where I'd prefer to see him when he has a favorable matchup.

^ ^ What he said ^ ^

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I think Jaren should be our high-volume 3 point shooter.  Of course he is great inside in the post and can be a matchup problem from mid-range but I wouldn't mind seeing him taking 7 or 8 three point shots a game.  When JJJ gets going from the 3 point land he is unstoppable and so are we.

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1 hour ago, ALT GRIND said:

I think Jaren should be our high-volume 3 point shooter.  Of course he is great inside in the post and can be a matchup problem from mid-range but I wouldn't mind seeing him taking 7 or 8 three point shots a game.  When JJJ gets going from the 3 point land he is unstoppable and so are we.

Not yet. He needs to develop more parts of his game before he starts camping out in 3pt land. 

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22 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Not yet. He needs to develop more parts of his game before he starts camping out in 3pt land. 

This.  I don't want JJJ settling on being a one dimensional offensive threat in his second season.  He needs to develop all his skills.

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1 hour ago, Father Pat said:

Not yet. He needs to develop more parts of his game before he starts camping out in 3pt land. 

About Jaren from the same article:

Quote

"and then offensively another playmaker, someone that I want to bring up the ball and help initiate the offense, facilitate with the ball in his hands, out of his hands. He’s proven that he’s a willing and capable 3-point shooter and continuing to build that confidence in him. But to me, it’s just a multi-dimensional player on both ends of the floor and I’m not going to set him in one specific role. Just let him go out and play basketball at a high level."

I think the idea of JV stretching the floor is for Jaren to have as much space as possible. This offense will be designed for him, similar to the way Coach Bud utilized Giannis

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5 hours ago, Holidayinn21 said:

About Jaren from the same article:

I think the idea of JV stretching the floor is for Jaren to have as much space as possible. This offense will be designed for him, similar to the way Coach Bud utilized Giannis

Position less basketball is REAL ... coming soon

5 ballers period

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On 7/20/2019 at 12:02 PM, Holidayinn21 said:

He was there in ATL when Horford became  a stretch 5. Brook Lopez this past year became primarily a floor spacing 5. JV the stretch 5 is a realistic possibility. He's attempted 122 the last 2 years. That number will likely double this upcoming year.

Do you have a link to the whole article? Thanks.

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1 hour ago, GameOn said:

Do you have a link to the whole article? Thanks.

It's from The Athletic where you have to be a paid subscriber. I'll just copy and paste

Quote

 

The Grizzlies had a long, productive week in summer league and capped it off with a 95-92 win against Minnesota in the championship game Monday. The Athletic caught up with head coach Taylor Jenkins to discuss the offseason and what’s next for the Grizzlies following the end of summer league.

What’s been the highlight of summer league for you?

The togetherness of the team. Trying to put a lot of players together who have been with the Grizzlies, our invites, guys we’re taking looks at for possibly the Grizzlies or G League team and the trades and the draft picks and all the different stages that guys have been integrated. I think this team has been a fun, competitive group that’s willing to get better every day. The competitiveness is something that we’ve gotten more often than not. It hasn’t been perfect by any means but I think our guys’ togetherness on and off the court has been very apparent.

What have the last two weeks been like for you as you transition into being an NBA head coach for the first time?

It’s been super important for me to be hands-on with the guys and the staff as well — our coaches, our medical team, our PR team, our security team, everyone involved. So it’s kinda like a dry run, no pun intended on the Las Vegas dry heat and everything, to be able to work together and start laying our foundation and then our communication flows, our work habits and much of our young guys here just feeling what we’re going to be about. It’ll be important to get to the middle of the summer and hopefully that carries over to the start of the season

What’s your overall impression of all the trades and transactions that took place during free agency week?

It was a great process. Very inclusive, constant communication with Zach (Kleiman) and his group about what might be potential options with trades and going through the draft process and free agent options as well, always being on the same page on what we’re trying to build here in Memphis. There’s been a lot of change but I think we’re very excited about the direction we’re going in, the players, the people that we’ve brought in. It’s definitely a puzzle seeing what all guys we’ve got on the table to go into the start of the season. I’m excited to build those relationships and I’ve been talking to everybody, which is awesome, whether in person or over the phone and everyone’s excited about what our vision is. It’s going to be fun to get started on October 1. 

Yuta Watanabe had a promising first week of summer league. What did you see from him?

His body has matured, a guy that’s always been a competitor with good instincts in the game. I know his run got cut a little bit short but what we saw in Utah, even back in training camp in Memphis and then the first few games here in Vegas, a guy that’s got a really good shot if he keeps working on his body, keeps working on his shot. He’s already got the natural instincts and competitive instincts as well that excites me to have him as a part of our program.

Obviously, Yuta is a two-way guy but do you see an opportunity for him to make an impact next season?

Definitely. To be able to have him and John Konchar, two guys that we think very highly of, I think they’ll definitely get their opportunities. You never know when that’s going to be or how much that’s going to be, but the foundation that they’ve laid with their work habits and their character is going to be a natural fit for us. To be able to see them compete out here in summer league and what they’re capable of doing, it excites me what they can do on both ends of the floor. Excited to see their growth. 

What’s the plan for Ivan Rabb entering next season? Do you think he’ll be a consistent contributor? 

The plan for him, like many of these guys, I just want to see them play. I’m getting a better feel for them, spending a lot more one-on-one time with them and really challenging him to be very good defensively. I thought he did an excellent job in our man-to-man defense and overall coverages, the amount of rebounds he’s gotten, I think he’s grown. And then offensively, learn a new style of play like all these guys are doing. It hasn’t come overnight. But I think he’s gotten more comfortable and a little bit more confident shooting threes. So it’s been fun to see him start to pick up on those things and hopefully move forward as a guy that can be pushed on both ends of the floor.

Is his endgame being more of a floor-spacing forward/center? Or do you envision him playing inside more?

I’d say the endgame just starts with playmaking, whether that’s inside or outside. Obviously, the 3-point shot is going to be big for all of our bigs — himself, Jonas, Jaren, Bruno, Brandon, whoever our bigs are. Being a playmaker is going to be the No. 1 thought. We’re definitely going to be more of a space-the-floor team, so that 3-point shot is going to be key

Ja Morant didn’t play, but have you been able to figure what his role will be next season? How have those conversations gone?

They’ve been great. We spent a number of one-on-one conversations and in group settings as well he’s been involved in (those). I told him up front, “I know you’re not playing but I want you fully around all the practices and film sessions because as I’m coaching the other point guards and the other guards I want you to be absorbing that same knowledge and information.” With his high IQ and his want to be really good, it’s going to be an easy transition. He’s been able to absorb a lot of stuff in a three-week period. How we’re going to play defensively and offensively with great activity and great togetherness, and then also the pace we play with, his ability to play-make with us, it’s going to be a seamless transition for us. 

Same for Jaren, he’s been around. What role do you see him next season, especially considering Jonas will be back?

Kinda like I mentioned earlier, just a playmaker on both ends of the floor. Pairing him with Jonas, maybe him exploring some more roles at the 5 and a guy that we’re going to rely on being an anchor of our defense, him and Jonas being able to protect the paint, activity around the rim and then the versatility to do different things in pick-and-roll coverages. Makes sense for us defensively and then offensively another playmaker, someone that I want to bring up the ball and help initiate the offense, facilitate with the ball in his hands, out of his hands. He’s proven that he’s a willing and capable 3-point shooter and continuing to build that confidence in him. But to me, it’s just a multi-dimensional player on both ends of the floor and I’m not going to set him in one specific role. Just let him go out and play basketball at a high level. 

 

 

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Yuta could be 2 or 3 years away from having a Pascal Siakam-style breakout year.  Good skill set, length, and he's smooth.  Great mix.

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24 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Yuta could be 2 or 3 years away from having a Pascal Siakam-style breakout year.  Good skill set, length, and he's smooth.  Great mix.

Siakam started playing the game late. Yuta has been playing his entire life and is 24. I don’t think he has much upside left 

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49 minutes ago, Allen said:

Siakam started playing the game late. Yuta has been playing his entire life and is 24. I don’t think he has much upside left 

I wouldn't count on it either.  Siakam was an outlier. But it's possible.  Yeah, Yuta will probably be a finished product in 2-3 years and he might be close to his upside now.  

Betting on a Siakam growth trajectory (to say nothing of the Greek Freak Experience) is a fool's errand.

Maybe Yuta can be a "poor man's Siakam" within 2 years.  That might be a better bet.  

Top line I think 15-6-3-1-1 is possible for Yuta -- which would be nice.

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Thinking more about this, it's like a catch-22. A head coach should seek to maximize his teams individual talents, not try and get guys to do what they aren't good at. It never works out. On the other hand, the talent level of the team as a whole is not that good, so in essence he is (hopefully) maximizing a few of the players talents and the F.O. will find/acquire other players to fit the skill set that he is talking about. In the mean time we will be seeing a lot of guys doing what they are not best suited to be doing. Other teams will find those weaknesses pretty quickly and it will make it harder on the few players that do fit that skill set. If Jenkins sticks to this, the win/loss columns will probably be worse than expected, which isn't that big of a deal to me as long as it improves the following season. How long the new F.O. sticks to their plan, and what ownership can stomach because of losses due to poor team performance is still to be seen.  

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On 7/20/2019 at 9:02 AM, Holidayinn21 said:

He was there in ATL when Horford became  a stretch 5. Brook Lopez this past year became primarily a floor spacing 5. JV the stretch 5 is a realistic possibility. He's attempted 122 the last 2 years. That number will likely double this upcoming year.

I choose to read that as "wide-open three by a 35% big is probably just as good as a contested three by a 39% guard." And "I want any guy who's open to be at least credible from anywhere."  The bigs are outside a lot in a mobile attack.  

But let's look at 3-pt % from last season. This is what Jenkins has to figure out.

Group A  36-38% -- Dillon, Bruno, JJJ     
Group B  32-33% - Jae, Tyus, Iggy, Grayson and let's say for now that Ja is B-  
Group C  27-28% - JV, Kyle and probably Clarke
Group D  20% - Ivan

What does that tell you? 

 100 3s at 37% = 111 points, same as 100 2s at 55%
 100 3s at 33% = 100 points, same as 100 2s at 50%
 100 3s at 28% = 84 points, same as 100 2s at 42% 

(We have to pretend there are no fouls, which distorts it quite a bit, especially if a 2-pt shooter is more likely to be fouled than a 3pter)

50.x% shooting on two-pointers puts you in the high 70s league-wide (among players making >300 FGs)
This includes  Augustin, Rose, Fournier, Klay, LaVine, Doncic, Gordon &  Redick   (Conley shot 48.3% from 2) 

I'd say
Group A should be shooting twos just enough to keep the other team honest, otherwise bombs away. 
Group B could comfortably shoot 2s or 3s, whatever's open.      
Group C, mostly twos, and from JV's past stats, work on that 3
Group D - Bye, Ivan. 

Some guys should, of course, get more shots than others. And we have to adjust for double-teaming etc. 
And bang it inside if the opponent over-defends the three. With JV and JJJ we got that covered. 

Yes, it WAS a slow afternoon, and I wanted a challenge.

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1 hour ago, TimBC said:

Yes, it WAS a slow afternoon, and I wanted a challenge

Good stuff !

🤣💨

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1 hour ago, TimBC said:

I choose to read that as "wide-open three by a 35% big is probably just as good as a contested three by a 39% guard." And "I want any guy who's open to be at least credible from anywhere."  The bigs are outside a lot in a mobile attack.  

But let's look at 3-pt % from last season. This is what Jenkins has to figure out.

Group A  36-38% -- Dillon, Bruno, JJJ     
Group B  32-33% - Jae, Tyus, Iggy, Grayson and let's say for now that Ja is B-  
Group C  27-28% - JV, Kyle and probably Clarke
Group D  20% - Ivan

What does that tell you? 

 100 3s at 37% = 111 points, same as 100 2s at 55%
 100 3s at 33% = 100 points, same as 100 2s at 50%
 100 3s at 28% = 84 points, same as 100 2s at 42% 

(We have to pretend there are no fouls, which distorts it quite a bit, especially if a 2-pt shooter is more likely to be fouled than a 3pter)

50.x% shooting on two-pointers puts you in the high 70s league-wide (among players making >300 FGs)
This includes  Augustin, Rose, Fournier, Klay, LaVine, Doncic, Gordon &  Redick   (Conley shot 48.3% from 2) 

I'd say
Group A should be shooting twos just enough to keep the other team honest, otherwise bombs away. 
Group B could comfortably shoot 2s or 3s, whatever's open.      
Group C, mostly twos, and from JV's past stats, work on that 3
Group D - Bye, Ivan. 

Some guys should, of course, get more shots than others. And we have to adjust for double-teaming etc. 
And bang it inside if the opponent over-defends the three. With JV and JJJ we got that covered. 

Yes, it WAS a slow afternoon, and I wanted a challenge.

You are right on!

The top 3 point shooters on our team (or any team) should turn into volume shooters from deep. Let the other guys on the court pass and rebound misses.  

Most of the others should take 2 or 3 three point shots per game (tops). The others basically better be awesome role players or great defenders.  

Rabb is fairly cheap -- use him as a guy who crashes the glass on BOTH sides of the ball.  I think offensive rebounding is underrated.  

If we take something like 35 three pointers a game then group A takes 20 total, B takes 10 and C takes 5.  Then you need at least 3 players in groups A and B on the court at all times.  

Maybe even within group A the best shooter takes 8, second best takes 7, and third best takes 5.  Players in Group B take 3 or 4 a game (at most).  

Group C guys might be limited to wide-open corner 3's.  And, which Group D players can be serviceable on corner 3 point shooting (turning them into Group C guys).

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Jaren needs to dominate on defense and help out on the boards.  To reward the big man, he should have the green light on offense, pretty much from anywhere. 

Ja should hustle, get guys going, compete on defense, and on the boards then be given the green light on offense from pretty much anywhere.

Jonas can take a few mid-range shots and maybe a couple of 3 pointers a night but he is gonna make his money in the paint. 

Dillon and Bruno (and maybe Yuta) are probably the only legit slashers on the team. Forgot Josh Jackson.  He should get some buckets on drives/cuts too.

The rest of our dudes need to familiarize themselves with the corner 3. 

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I think the league is headed towards optimized 3 point shooting where the truly elite 3 point shooters take at least 10 to 15 a night with most guys on the team taking 1 or 2 a night at most.

2 or 3 guys on each team will take the vast majority of 3 pointers per game.  

Soon, more players will attempt fewer than 50 three pointers per season.  Most guys will take between 100 and 200 a year with the top tier long-range bombers taking many multiples of that.  

The same thing will probably happen with paint shots/low post scoring.  Guys like Jonas will take nearly all the traditional low post shots.  

Mid-range masters will begin to live in the 14-18 foot range again but most guys will still avoid the mid-range and "long 2's".  

More guys will try to get to the line.  Players like Trae Young and Ja Morant will live there (while also taking a healthy amount of shots from everywhere on the court).  

Corner 3 point shooting specialists will become less valued but more players will take (at least a couple) of corner 3 point shots per game.  If that makes sense.  

Optimizing 3 point shooting -- and shot charts in general -- is gonna be the new trend. The new "positionless basketball".  "Depth" will be the new "load management".  

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17 hours ago, Father Pat said:

Thinking more about this, it's like a catch-22. A head coach should seek to maximize his teams individual talents, not try and get guys to do what they aren't good at. It never works out. On the other hand, the talent level of the team as a whole is not that good, so in essence he is (hopefully) maximizing a few of the players talents and the F.O. will find/acquire other players to fit the skill set that he is talking about. In the mean time we will be seeing a lot of guys doing what they are not best suited to be doing. Other teams will find those weaknesses pretty quickly and it will make it harder on the few players that do fit that skill set. If Jenkins sticks to this, the win/loss columns will probably be worse than expected, which isn't that big of a deal to me as long as it improves the following season. How long the new F.O. sticks to their plan, and what ownership can stomach because of losses due to poor team performance is still to be seen.  

It is def a catch-22 but it could be a good way to weed out players.   The Great Ones always added new skills in the off seasons (Kobe, MJ, Lebron). 

Remember that Fizdale also thought  players can always continue developing new skills.   His philosophy was integral to unlocking Marc and Mike's career years on offense.   

I agree with you that our win/loss record will greatly suffer if he pushes for it too hard.    I am most interested to see how Jaren is going to be utilized.   Is he truly going to give him full Greenlight on offense and is JJJ ready for it?

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16 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Jaren needs to dominate on defense and help out on the boards.  To reward the big man, he should have the green light on offense, pretty much from anywhere. 

Ja should hustle, get guys going, compete on defense, and on the boards then be given the green light on offense from pretty much anywhere.

Jonas can take a few mid-range shots and maybe a couple of 3 pointers a night but he is gonna make his money in the paint. 

Dillon and Bruno (and maybe Yuta) are probably the only legit slashers on the team. Forgot Josh Jackson.  He should get some buckets on drives/cuts too.

The rest of our dudes need to familiarize themselves with the corner 3. 

grayson at his best is a slasher, he can get into the paint and draw fouls if not hitting floaters or getting all the way to the rim.

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On 7/21/2019 at 2:48 PM, Holidayinn21 said:

It's from The Athletic where you have to be a paid subscriber. I'll just copy and paste

 

Thanks!

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