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Dwash

2020 NBA Draft

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4 minutes ago, Dwash said:

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/lamelo-ball/

I dont know but Nbadraft.net doesnt seem to give him.thag bad of a rating at shooting. His % in Aistralia are bad but dont include last night and have bee climbing as the year went on.

The release point seems to be the problem. But then again, I also thought Ja would struggle far more due to his own release and he’s adjusted well. 

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I watched that game.

He was very impressive no question.

Was it an outlier? The level of opponent? Will he be the BPA when we step up to pick? Do we have a priority needs?

Not sure about the answers right now, we'll see as the season progresses

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9 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

The release point seems to be the problem. But then again, I also thought Ja would struggle far more due to his own release and he’s adjusted well. 

Maybe him, Ja and JJJ can form the baby dinsoaur jumpshot crew.

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2 hours ago, Dwash said:

Ohhhh he was a number 4 pick!  So I guess I should just ignore the fact that pretty much any top end lottery pick that was given ample opportunity to play and looked like trash after two years mostly went on to have a mediocre career at best.

If by "skillset" you mean "athletic" yeah I will give you that. Beyond that he is terrible.  The Suns dumped him, nobody wanted him and tbe Grizz wouldnt even pick up his option. 

DiAngelo got dumped too and he was the Number TWO pick.   And it was also mostly in regards to off the court antics. 

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15 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

DiAngelo got dumped too and he was the Number TWO pick.   And it was also mostly in regards to off the court antics. 

Please everyone knew Russell could be a good player but the Lakers needed to dump salary (Mozgov) and make room for Ball who they loved. He was the Nets reward for sucking up Mozgov not a salary dump.

Do you need me to go down the line and list the number of sucky lottery picks that stayed sucky or you got it??

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59 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Please everyone knew Russell could be a good player but the Lakers needed to dump salary (Mozgov) and make room for Ball who they loved. He was the Nets reward for sucking up Mozgov not a salary dump.

Do you need me to go down the line and list the number of sucky lottery picks that stayed sucky or you got it??

Nah list them.   Then list the nunber of lottery picks that started off slow and improved in better situation.  Mike Conley almost got traded for Ramon Sessions in year 4.   

I will continue to say book hasnt been finished yet.  Even Wiggins looks much improved.  

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37 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Nah list them.   Then list the nunber of lottery picks that started off slow and improved in better situation.  Mike Conley almost got traded for Ramon Sessions in year 4.   

I will continue to say book hasnt been finished yet.  Even Wiggins looks much improved.  

Top 7 or 8 picks that looked like trash after 2 years and continued to be trash in the last 12 or so years.

Adam Morrison

Tyrus Thomas

Shelden Williams

Yi Jilian

Corey Brewer

Brandan Wright

Michael Beasley

Thabeet

Evan Turner

Wesley Johnson

Ekpe Udoh

Al Farouq Aminu

Derrick Williams

Jan Vesely

Bismack Biyombo

MKG

Dion Waiters

Thomas Robinson

Anthony Bennett

Nerlens Noel

Ben Mclemore

Dante Exum

Mario Hejonza

Emnanuel Mudiay

Stanley Johnson

Dragan Bender

Kris Dunn

Marquiss Chriss

Frank N

Dennis Smith

Basically 2 or 3 every year. Now a list is just some names without analyzing. Going through this I noticed two things

1) Atleast 50-60% of the busts were right along the lines of Josh Jackson. Good athletes that cant play, not considered to be very disciplined and/or had poor underdeveloped skill sets.

2). Most of the guys that made it from the early picked group got it early on. You knew they would be solid by the end of year two with only a few exceptions. Playing time or not being involved in the offense is rarely as issue for any of them so success is up to them.

 

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Lamelo isn't good enough to be worth the headache. Having to hear his dad rant about how JJJ and Ja and Brandon need to defer to him and media actually playing the clip over and over. Screw that.

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10 hours ago, Dwash said:

Top 7 or 8 picks that looked like trash after 2 years and continued to be trash in the last 12 or so years.

Adam Morrison

Tyrus Thomas

Shelden Williams

Yi Jilian

Corey Brewer

Brandan Wright

Michael Beasley

Thabeet

Evan Turner

Wesley Johnson

Ekpe Udoh

Al Farouq Aminu

Derrick Williams

Jan Vesely

Bismack Biyombo

MKG

Dion Waiters

Thomas Robinson

Anthony Bennett

Nerlens Noel

Ben Mclemore

Dante Exum

Mario Hejonza

Emnanuel Mudiay

Stanley Johnson

Dragan Bender

Kris Dunn

Marquiss Chriss

Frank N

Dennis Smith

Basically 2 or 3 every year. Now a list is just some names without analyzing. Going through this I noticed two things

1) Atleast 50-60% of the busts were right along the lines of Josh Jackson. Good athletes that cant play, not considered to be very disciplined and/or had poor underdeveloped skill sets.

2). Most of the guys that made it from the early picked group got it early on. You knew they would be solid by the end of year two with only a few exceptions. Playing time or not being involved in the offense is rarely as issue for any of them so success is up to them.

 

Over half those dudes still in the league and 1/3rd have  had multiple contracts.    Your definition of trash is basically = anybody that isn't a high level starter or AllStar.    I lot of those guys have found success as  legit NBA role players.   They may be overpaid but they are definite in 9 man rotation players.  

My feelings won't be hurt if Josh Jackson doesn't become an AllStar.   Those aren't my expectations.    All i want is a wing in Ja + Jaren timeline that has ability to develop into complimentary piece.   Josh CAN dribble and pass - he is better ballhandler and distributor over Dillon and Jae.   He has the metrics and willingness to become a plus defender (that was his calling card in college).    Shooting and decision making can improve in right system and coaching.   

Once again he is only 22y.     Which makes him younger than Brandon, Bruno, Grayson, Marko, Dillon and Tyus.    Who have all proven even less than he is (except Tyus).   I think we need a young athletic defensive minded wing alongside Ja to take on the tougher defensive assignments.   Dillon aint it.  Melton could be but he is pretty short (6'2').  Why not try the guy thats already under contract with the team?? 

We are in a REBUILDING season.   This is the time to see what pieces we have.   Heck even if Josh doesn't work out there is still value in seeing how a player of that type pairs with Ja.  

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38 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Over half those dudes still in the league and 1/3rd have  had multiple contracts.    Your definition of trash is basically = anybody that isn't a high level starter or AllStar.    I lot of those guys have found success as  legit NBA role players.   They may be overpaid but they are definite in 9 man rotation players.  

My feelings won't be hurt if Josh Jackson doesn't become an AllStar.   Those aren't my expectations.    All i want is a wing in Ja + Jaren timeline that has ability to develop into complimentary piece.   Josh CAN dribble and pass - he is better ballhandler and distributor over Dillon and Jae.   He has the metrics and willingness to become a plus defender (that was his calling card in college).    Shooting and decision making can improve in right system and coaching.   

Once again he is only 22y.     Which makes him younger than Brandon, Bruno, Grayson, Marko, Dillon and Tyus.    Who have all proven even less than he is (except Tyus).   I think we need a young athletic defensive minded wing alongside Ja to take on the tougher defensive assignments.   Dillon aint it.  Melton could be but he is pretty short (6'2').  Why not try the guy thats already under contract with the team?? 

We are in a REBUILDING season.   This is the time to see what pieces we have.   Heck even if Josh doesn't work out there is still value in seeing how a player of that type pairs with Ja.  

You should start a petition and mail it to the FO.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Over half those dudes still in the league and 1/3rd have  had multiple contracts.    Your definition of trash is basically = anybody that isn't a high level starter or AllStar.    I lot of those guys have found success as  legit NBA role players.   They may be overpaid but they are definite in 9 man rotation players.  

My feelings won't be hurt if Josh Jackson doesn't become an AllStar.   Those aren't my expectations.    All i want is a wing in Ja + Jaren timeline that has ability to develop into complimentary piece.   Josh CAN dribble and pass - he is better ballhandler and distributor over Dillon and Jae.   He has the metrics and willingness to become a plus defender (that was his calling card in college).    Shooting and decision making can improve in right system and coaching.   

Once again he is only 22y.     Which makes him younger than Brandon, Bruno, Grayson, Marko, Dillon and Tyus.    Who have all proven even less than he is (except Tyus).   I think we need a young athletic defensive minded wing alongside Ja to take on the tougher defensive assignments.   Dillon aint it.  Melton could be but he is pretty short (6'2').  Why not try the guy thats already under contract with the team?? 

We are in a REBUILDING season.   This is the time to see what pieces we have.   Heck even if Josh doesn't work out there is still value in seeing how a player of that type pairs with Ja.  

Im not inserting any of these guys into dream lineups and talking about pairing them with our best players is my point from the beginning. They are not good players, maybe decent bench players that come and go at best. Im not asking for Allstars at every spot. I would rather find high IQ player who knows how to be a role player and how to just fit in. You seem to think a guy who cant shoot and has displayed a terrible IQ on both sides of the ball can all of a sudden pick that up. I think the chances of that happening are low and you should look elsewhere. Just imo.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Over half those dudes still in the league and 1/3rd have  had multiple contracts.    Your definition of trash is basically = anybody that isn't a high level starter or AllStar.    I lot of those guys have found success as  legit NBA role players.   They may be overpaid but they are definite in 9 man rotation players.  

My feelings won't be hurt if Josh Jackson doesn't become an AllStar.   Those aren't my expectations.    All i want is a wing in Ja + Jaren timeline that has ability to develop into complimentary piece.   Josh CAN dribble and pass - he is better ballhandler and distributor over Dillon and Jae.   He has the metrics and willingness to become a plus defender (that was his calling card in college).    Shooting and decision making can improve in right system and coaching.   

Once again he is only 22y.     Which makes him younger than Brandon, Bruno, Grayson, Marko, Dillon and Tyus.    Who have all proven even less than he is (except Tyus).   I think we need a young athletic defensive minded wing alongside Ja to take on the tougher defensive assignments.   Dillon aint it.  Melton could be but he is pretty short (6'2').  Why not try the guy thats already under contract with the team?? 

We are in a REBUILDING season.   This is the time to see what pieces we have.   Heck even if Josh doesn't work out there is still value in seeing how a player of that type pairs with Ja.  

If I had to mix and match guys, Josh and Clarke seem like  an interesting wing duo.  Especially if you plan to keep starting Jonas.  

If we go BIG while the rest of the bad/mediocre teams haven't figured it out yet, then Ja/Josh/Clarke/Jaren/Jonas looks great on paper and would optimize our defense and rebounding.  Then you still have Dillon and Kyle and Bruno plus some other guys off the bench.  Tyus, Dillon, Kyle, Jae, and Bruno would be a nice second string.

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20 hours ago, Dwash said:

Anthony who? I need this guy. Two point guards in the backcourt? Unstoppable.

 

I'm intrigued. He seems to fit what the FO/Jenkins are trying to do long term more than Edwards would. I'm mostly concerned about potential redundancies in some areas with Ball and Ja, but they bring different skills to the table as well.

Mostly my concern would be whether either is effective off the ball. I feel like Ja would be with his elite athleticism and finishing but I also don't want the ball taken out of his hands.

Still though, think it would be an experiment worth conducting. Would be really fun to watch them together. The next step would be finding an elite 3&D wing and that would round out the core as we head toward our first playoff push in a year or two.

GTF I saw you said it's rumored that we're after Ball- where you hearing this?

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2 hours ago, Dwash said:

Im not inserting any of these guys into dream lineups and talking about pairing them with our best players is my point from the beginning. They are not good players, maybe decent bench players that come and go at best. Im not asking for Allstars at every spot. I would rather find high IQ player who knows how to be a role player and how to just fit in. You seem to think a guy who cant shoot and has displayed a terrible IQ on both sides of the ball can all of a sudden pick that up. I think the chances of that happening are low and you should look elsewhere. Just imo.

So who currently on our roster fits your idea based on Ja and Jaren timeline?    Who has a HIgh BBIQ AND can defend their position on current roster?  

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4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

So who currently on our roster fits your idea based on Ja and Jaren timeline?    Who has a HIgh BBIQ AND can defend their position on current roster?  

We probably dont have enough of them. Hence one reason that we suck. Im not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. We need to go look for the right players.

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

We probably dont have enough of them. Hence one reason that we suck. Im not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. We need to go look for the right players.

Who do we have?? You didn't give me a name of one that fits your specifications.  

So what is exactly the harm in evaluating EVERY player we have on the roster before looking on the outside?    That is what the #FREEJOSHJACKSON folks are saying.   It aint like anybody is clamoring for him to take all of Dillon's minutes.   Marko Grayson and Hill. 

 Truly no reason for Hill to be playing both SF and PF minutes when those mins can go to Brandon or SloMo or even Bruno.     Marko is horrible defensively and still too iffy about shooting.  I dont see anything outstanding about any of their BBIQ to offset lack of talent. 

I just dont follow the logic that he could be any worse than what we already playing.    

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2 hours ago, Thomas said:

I'm intrigued. He seems to fit what the FO/Jenkins are trying to do long term more than Edwards would. I'm mostly concerned about potential redundancies in some areas with Ball and Ja, but they bring different skills to the table as well.

Mostly my concern would be whether either is effective off the ball. I feel like Ja would be with his elite athleticism and finishing but I also don't want the ball taken out of his hands.

Still though, think it would be an experiment worth conducting. Would be really fun to watch them together. The next step would be finding an elite 3&D wing and that would round out the core as we head toward our first playoff push in a year or two.

GTF I saw you said it's rumored that we're after Ball- where you hearing this?

Gotta think about Jaren and Clarke and I think those two could benefit from having another passer/creator.  

Would DEFINITELY need another wing shooter to complement a Ja/LaMelo/Jaren/Clarke core.

If we are looking into him, I bet we are asking ourselves if he can be Ja's SCOTTIE PIPPEN.

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Who do we have?? You didn't give me a name of one that fits your specifications.  

So what is exactly the harm in evaluating EVERY player we have on the roster before looking on the outside?    That is what the #FREEJOSHJACKSON folks are saying.   It aint like anybody is clamoring for him to take all of Dillon's minutes.   Marko Grayson and Hill. 

 Truly no reason for Hill to be playing both SF and PF minutes when those mins can go to Brandon or SloMo or even Bruno.     Marko is horrible defensively and still too iffy about shooting.  I dont see anything outstanding about any of their BBIQ to offset lack of talent. 

I just dont follow the logic that he could be any worse than what we already playing.    

ONCE AGAIN, I dont really who plays on this crap team outside of the top dogs. Most of them suck.  Have I said that enough times?  If one or two break through then so be it. I draw the line at penciling him into future lineups (yes its ok to say we currently dont have what we need), saying he needs to be paired with our stars (you just fantasized him starting at SF next year with Ball...thats how all this started...so that is implying taking Dillon's and everyone elses minutes...) and talking about how he needs to be "free." He is another scrub like the rest of them. Thats why they didnt pick his option up. The "tough love" stuff is some fantasy yall are dreaming up cause you like him. If they believed in him they would have picked that option up to keep him under team control in case he breaks out.

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14 minutes ago, Dwash said:

ONCE AGAIN, I dont really who plays on this crap team outside of the top dogs. Most of them suck.  Have I said that enough times?  If one or two break through then so be it. I draw the line at penciling him into future lineups (yes its ok to say we currently dont have what we need), saying he needs to be paired with our stars (you just fantasized him starting at SF next year with Ball...thats how all this started...so that is implying taking Dillon's and everyone elses minutes...) and talking about how he needs to be "free." He is another scrub like the rest of them. Thats why they didnt pick his option up. The "tough love" stuff is some fantasy yall are dreaming up cause you like him. If they believed in him they would have picked that option up to keep him under team control in case he breaks out.

If you don't have a dog in the fight then why do you care if he gets minutes this year or not?      I coulda penciled in DeAnthony as a starter next year and you wouldve crapped on that too.   

Honestly, Dillon as a starter for 2years shoulda been unfathomable too but circumstances dictated he start not his actual talent.   So why not Josh?

Who would you have liked me to put out there starting next to Ball?  Dillon who is better as a 6th man chucker?  Or Jae who prob wont resign or will be traded?  

FO miscalculating the ability or growth of players is par for the course.  Not picking up his option doesn't mean he won't turn into a player or become a Grizz longterm.   I think not picking his option was the only way you can convince him this is his last chance to motivate him to straighten up off the court.  Its a calculated risk that is all.  If they simply wanted to be rid of him they woulda just waived him.    Pretty easy to do.   Jumping thru all these hoops isn't something you do for a guy you have zero interest in.      

At the most he could be filler in an Iggy trade but hard for me to imagine anyone being willing to take on Josh 8m + Iggy 17m and give us a pick back.   Iggy contract alone has been a hindrance. 

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1 minute ago, Parsons_Refund said:

Anthony Edwards went ballistic in the second half.  Dropped 33 in the half and some insane shots.  7 stocks too

I am kicking myself that I didn't watch the game.  That's some explosive second half scoring!

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If you don't have a dog in the fight then why do you care if he gets minutes this year or not?      I coulda penciled in DeAnthony as a starter next year and you wouldve crapped on that too.   

Honestly, Dillon as a starter for 2years shoulda been unfathomable too but circumstances dictated he start not his actual talent.   So why not Josh?

Who would you have liked me to put out there starting next to Ball?  Dillon who is better as a 6th man chucker?  Or Jae who prob wont resign or will be traded?  

FO miscalculating the ability or growth of players is par for the course.  Not picking up his option doesn't mean he won't turn into a player or become a Grizz longterm.   I think not picking his option was the only way you can convince him this is his last chance to motivate him to straighten up off the court.  Its a calculated risk that is all.  If they simply wanted to be rid of him they woulda just waived him.    Pretty easy to do.   Jumping thru all these hoops isn't something you do for a guy you have zero interest in.      

At the most he could be filler in an Iggy trade but hard for me to imagine anyone being willing to take on Josh 8m + Iggy 17m and give us a pick back.   Iggy contract alone has been a hindrance. 

On the last bit, it would have to be a team with a bloated contract they're looking to dump (which would be fine honestly). Most of the really bad contracts are over this year or already ended, so it's kind of hard to see who would want to do that. Batum fits, but Charlotte doesn't care to keep him. 

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