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Grizzled Vet

Grizzlies/NBA Free Agency Thread

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

That was another theory I didnt jive with. If he is interested in working with younger players sure but that doesnt sound typical of players of his status.  Vince Carter is one who seems ok with it. He has been in a situation where it is cool to just wait around until March to play hard and the team can win games without him contributing. Based on what he has become accustomed too, Memphis would probably be a tough mental adjustment for him at this point, imo.

I'm not asking you to believe it. I am saying in my opinion it makes sense to value that. Therefore buying him out when a future trade is still possible and could be a beneficial voice on the team doesn't make sense to me. That's why I wouldn't offer him anything to buy him out today. 

That's not to say Iggy could refuse to be a leader on a young team, that no trades become possible and that the team couldn't eventually buy him out. I just would wait as long as possible before making that move and would offer as little as possible if they come to that conclusion. 

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Why don't we wait and see what happens the rest of the summer before declaring the front office made a bad deal?

I said as of now lol read my first post about it Chip. 

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2 minutes ago, Gradey said:

Iggy does not hold the leverage in this.

He's under contract for 17M that's his leverage and his starting number at a buyout.

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3 minutes ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

He's under contract for 17M that's his leverage and his starting number at a buyout.

What leverage is that? His leverage is requesting a full payout to leave and join a competitor? 

The Grizzlies should counter that with, we own your contract and you can play under the terms of the contract or we will let you out of it for nothing and you are free to pursue other opportunities. 

Where we seem to be disagreeing is whether or not the Grizzlies want Iggy on this team. I believe they see value in a respected veteran leader on a team full of young players. Maybe not $17 million in value but value just the same. They aren't going to give that value away for nothing. 

Now DWash and others don't believe Iggy has any value. That he won't be a leader on the team and could possibly be a distraction. If that comes to pass the equation changes. Today that is not likely how the Grizzlies are looking at it. 

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20 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

What leverage is that? His leverage is requesting a full payout to leave and join a competitor? 

The Grizzlies should counter that with, we own your contract and you can play under the terms of the contract or we will let you out of it for nothing and you are free to pursue other opportunities. 

Where we seem to be disagreeing is whether or not the Grizzlies want Iggy on this team. I believe they see value in a respected veteran leader on a team full of young players. Maybe not $17 million in value but value just the same. They aren't going to give that value away for nothing. 

Now DWash and others don't believe Iggy has any value. That he won't be a leader on the team and could possibly be a distraction. If that comes to pass the equation changes. Today that is not likely how the Grizzlies are looking at it. 

I don't care if he wants to be here .I know nothing of the FO or iggy plans. Now show me a guy that took zero dollars that's all i want to see because ive shown buy out after buy out that didnt go down that way.

Should the clips have told beasley he gets zero dollars last year? Surely they look weak and cant get any big stars to join them now.how about the nets with faried or Howard? Are those FO looking weak ?

Again show me a FO that told a player he gets nothing in a buy out.

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11 minutes ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

I don't care if he wants to be here .I know nothing of the FO or iggy plans. Now show me a guy that took zero dollars that's all i want to see because ive shown buy out after buy out that didnt go down that way.

Should the clips have told beasley he gets zero dollars last year? Surely they look weak and cant get any big stars to join them now.how about the nets with faried or Howard? Are those FO looking weak ?

Again show me a FO that told a player he gets nothing in a buy out.

I've already answered that I can't find it on google. I'm sure if both sides don't agree then no buyout occurs. Show me an example of a team paying anything for a player they didn't want to buyout? I'm sure there have been teams who said if you want out you get nothing from us. The player said screw that and no deal was done. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I've already answered that I can't find it on google. I'm sure if both don't agree then no buyout occurs. Show me an example of a team paying anything for a player they didn't want to buyout? 

Ok . show me a guy that took 0.00 since that's what you think iggy should take. 

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1 minute ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

Ok . show me a guy that took 0.00 since that's what you think iggy should take. 

I never said he should take it. I said that is what I would offer. If he refuses that then trade him or play him. That has at least some value for the team. 

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1 hour ago, Grizz&Grind said:

0% chance you buy him out...this ain't a charity...some folks are getting it twisted...unless he wants to negotiate his buyout to less than we would save on a trade (i.e. the $4M for Courtney Lee), then no dice. If he really wants to play for the Lakers or Clippers instead of Dallas or Denver, then that's his play...dude and his agent are trying to both get ALL they money AND play where he wants to next year. I don't see how any Griz fan doesn't say F no to that.

Hmm i wonder if that's why this story is being leaked.   To help Grizz FO in negotiation with Iggy.     

Personally i would rather just free up the roster spot then do this dance too long.     Telling Iggy we have a trade on the table to send you to Dallas which saves us 4m but sends you to a team u don't want to go to.    OR  buy you out at 13m and you make up the difference in whoever sign with.      That way Grizz could end up saying even more money in the buyout.  Because I am sure Lakers and Clippers will offer him the difference to entice him.    Which then gets subtracted from our buyout amount (take it down to 9m cap hit).   

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53 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

What leverage is that? His leverage is requesting a full payout to leave and join a competitor? 

The Grizzlies should counter that with, we own your contract and you can play under the terms of the contract or we will let you out of it for nothing and you are free to pursue other opportunities. 

Where we seem to be disagreeing is whether or not the Grizzlies want Iggy on this team. I believe they see value in a respected veteran leader on a team full of young players. Maybe not $17 million in value but value just the same. They aren't going to give that value away for nothing. 

Now DWash and others don't believe Iggy has any value. That he won't be a leader on the team and could possibly be a distraction. If that comes to pass the equation changes. Today that is not likely how the Grizzlies are looking at it. 

I believe that they didnt really trade for Iggy services. I believe it could have literally been anybody and as long as they fit under the TPE with a first round pick with "potential" to be a good one attached they would have accepted that deal.  Only because its Iggy (who has recent history on a good team) and not some name that no one cares about are we even having this discussion.

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2 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I believe that they didnt really trade for Iggy services. I believe it could have literally been anybody and as long as they fit under the TPE with a first round pick with "potential" to be a good one attached they would have accepted that deal.

If you believe that then why did the Grizzlies refuse the CLee and a 2nd round pick for Iggy? They would have cut another $4-5 million in salary and picked up another 2nd round pick. 

Surely you don't believe the Grizzlies refused the trade just so they could buy him out??? 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

If you believe that then why did the Grizzlies refuse the CLee and a 2nd round pick for Iggy? They would have cut another $4-5 million in salary and picked up another 2nd round pick. 

Surely you don't believe the Grizzlies refused the trade just so they could buy him out??? 

They are hoping for something better now particularly from Western teams looking to gear up for Kawhi/George or the Clippers possibly.

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But all of this is just a deflection from the line of thinking that started this. Talking as if Iggy receiving a buyout where the Grizzlies pay nothing was a real option was dumb. Even if he doesnt want to be here, no matter how he goes about it, a buyout will net him something. Thats how it works basically everytime one occurs and that was my position from the beginning.

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Sure it is an option. If I am not incorrect, the buyout is Wear both sides have to agree on the terms. It can be for the full amount of the contract or a fraction down to zero depending on how badly the player or team wants out of the contract.

I also know that Iguodala is the Vice-President of the players union. It would look particularly bad if someone in his role decided to act up and not honor his contract. That gives the Grizzlies more power to request Iggy give up money to get out of his contract. They have a signed contract by Iguodala and they can ask him to honor that contract. 

You may trick yourself into believing that isn't a legitimate option if you want. That's up to you. 

 

Wasn't Derek Fisher the NBPA President when he told the Mavericks he wanted to be waived so he could be closer to his family as his daughter was going through some major procedures, but then Fisher turned around a little later and signed with the Thunder?

I think he was waived bought out by the Jazz too, with the similar story.

 

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4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

Wasn't Derek Fisher the NBPA President when he told the Mavericks he wanted to be waived so he could be closer to his family as his daughter was going through some major procedures, but then Fisher turned around a little later and signed with the Thunder?

I think he was waived bought out by the Jazz too, with the similar story.

 

Melo was also the NBPA VP when he demanded a trade from the Knicks. Don't think Iggy's status as an NBPA VP matters one way or another.

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9 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

If you believe that then why did the Grizzlies refuse the CLee and a 2nd round pick for Iggy? They would have cut another $4-5 million in salary and picked up another 2nd round pick. 

Surely you don't believe the Grizzlies refused the trade just so they could buy him out??? 

 

This is what I don't understand, especially since the needs are greater at SG than SF.  Why not do the trade and save money on the buyout?

 

One thing to keep an eye on is the fact that the West, especially the LA teams, are loaded at the SF position.  While the Spurs have a couple defender options on their team (both ex-Grizzlies), I'm not sure what teams like Portland are going to do, or a few others?  

I'm guessing that was Utah's incentive to get Jeff Green.  Denver's rolling with Jerami Grant .

I'm not sure what Toronto's plan is to cover Giannis.

 

I think there are some trade possibilities down the road, but the buyout is still clearly an option.

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4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

Wasn't Derek Fisher the NBPA President when he told the Mavericks he wanted to be waived so he could be closer to his family as his daughter was going through some major procedures, but then Fisher turned around a little later and signed with the Thunder?

I think he was waived bought out by the Jazz too, with the similar story.

 

Fisher used his daughters situation to get out of his deal with Utah too. Said he wanted to be closer to doctors (I think they were in New York) then signed with the Lakers.

http://www.celticslife.com/2013/02/derek-fisher-is-piece-of-****.html

But yeah President of the NBPA, such a big deal lol.

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12 minutes ago, Dwash said:

They are hoping for something better now particularly from Western teams looking to gear up for Kawhi/George or the Clippers possibly.

So you agree they aren't wanting to buy him out? Do you agree that they want something more than just letting him walk with a large chunk of his salary (or even a little). If so I don't understand your determination that the team is going to buy him out for a larger than 50% portion of his salary or are arguing that they should be using that as a starting point in the negotiation. 

Right now if Iggy went to the Front Office and told them he wants to be bought out and to make an offer, what do you think they would offer? 

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12 minutes ago, Dwash said:

But all of this is just a deflection from the line of thinking that started this. Talking as if Iggy receiving a buyout where the Grizzlies pay nothing was a real option was dumb. Even if he doesnt want to be here, no matter how he goes about it, a buyout will net him something. Thats how it works basically everytime one occurs and that was my position from the beginning.

Exactly . 

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

So you agree they aren't wanting to buy him out? Do you agree that they want something more than just letting him walk with a large chunk of his salary (or even a little). If so I don't understand your determination that the team is going to buy him out for a larger than 50% portion of his salary or are arguing that they should be using that as a starting point in the negotiation. 

Right now if Iggy went to the Front Office and told them he wants to be bought out and to make an offer, what do you think they would offer? 

The whole discussion was made with the assumption that he had no trade value, which I see now may not be the case. I dont know why I have to keep repeating that. 

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4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

This is what I don't understand, especially since the needs are greater at SG than SF.  Why not do the trade and save money on the buyout?

They don't want to carry additional salary beyond 2020. That looks like a priority for this FO.

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6 minutes ago, Dwash said:

The whole discussion was made with the assumption that he had no trade value, which I see now may not be the case. I dont know why I have to keep repeating that. 

My original position was the Iggy had value either in trade or on the court. Therefore expecting the front office to give that away and pay him to leave is not likely. I believe if you asked the Front Office today what they would be willing to pay Iggy in a buyout it would be closer to zero than $17 million. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was zero which is what I would offer him to walk. 

And yet I have had to repeat that over and over again...

Your original position has been proven wrong (clearly there is value) so what would you as a GM offer Iggy in a buyout now? Would it be nothing because you want to get value for him? 

 

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3 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

They don't want to carry additional salary beyond 2020. That looks like a priority for this FO.

Think that depends . they may just repeat what they did this year,  with a few too many guys on the roster I could see them just starting early with a trade for dieng or whoever has extra year.

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5 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

They don't want to carry additional salary beyond 2020. That looks like a priority for this FO.

That's the point!

Both CLee and Iggy expire after this season.  CLee is cheaper and one of the few options right now for doing a trade where the Grizzlies don't take back additional contracts AND Lee is less money for a buyout option, if that is the plan.

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

My original position was the Iggy had value either in trade or on the court. Therefore expecting the front office to give that away and pay him to leave is not likely. I believe if you asked the Front Office today what they would be willing to pay Iggy in a buyout it would be closer to zero than $17 million. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was zero which is what I would offer him to walk. 

And yet I have had to repeat that over and over again...

Yeah they would "prefer" to pay him zero? When has that every happened? No matter what the situation? Joakim Noah was a complete *** and still got most of hia money.

So ONCE AGAIN, if Iggy doesnt want to be here and cant be traded (probably not true) he WILL  be paid like every other buyout player, which is close to full amount. Doesnt matter what "you would do if you were in charge" or what the Grizzlies want. This man has a guaranteed contract. If he shows up and acts disinterested he has the leverage cause he now hurts the team more than he helps and you still gotta pay him. So they will do what literally every other team does in this situation which is negotiate a buyout, maybe take a little off and earn savings when he signs with someone else. Thats how it works. Even for presidents of the NBPA as it has been proven.

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