Kevin B Moses

Even I know you have to draft Ja

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35 minutes ago, pjs said:

Sorry, I'm not sold on Ja.  Highlight films don't matter.  The question is ... what will he do against the elite?  The answer is ... we have no idea because he really hasn't had the opportunity to play against the elite.  Playing against the best in college day-in-day-out in the biggest venues has to be worth something.  He might be all-world like many are saying.  Call me skeptical.

All I know is the Grizzlies have needed a wing player that can score when defenses turn up the heat, especially to close out quarters or games.  If it were me, I'd take RJ.

This is every big game he played in this season. It's not many but as you can see, he still dominated.

vs Florida St in NCAA - 28 pts, 4 ast, 5 reb, (5-6 from three)

vs Marquette in NCAA - 17 pts, 16 ast, 11 reb  (2-2 from three)

vs Belmont in OVC championship - 36 pts, 3 ast, 7 reb

vs Auburn - 25 pts, 7 ast, 8 reb

vs Alabama - 38 pts, 5 ast, 9 reb

With all this being said I would still be fine with RJ at 2. Either one is a slam dunk imo.

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59 minutes ago, TonyMassenturd said:

I can understand how someone wouldn't be sold on Ja due to competition. But, you can watch his vids against Marquette and Florida State in the tournament to get a tiny idea. You must also realize that Ja had NO help whatsoever at Murray State-----seriously, it looked like he was constantly playing with YMCA dudes. So, every single night, every team that Murray State played had one goal to win-----stop Ja. No one could really do it.

RJ would also be a REALLY nice pick. He's the safer pick, IMO, because his floor is higher than Ja's and RJ is very likely an all star with star potential. But, Ja's ceiling is so much higher. As the Goat would say----Ja's "ceiling is the roof!"

Well said.  I too believe RJ is the safer (and more proven) pick.

I have mixed feelings.  The argument I can understand for taking Ja over RJ is ... Ja is improving exponentially each year (think about it ... from a 0-star rating in high-school to a top-3 NBA lottery pick in 2 years, that is amazing!) and Ja has't reached his ceiling yet while RJ may have peaked as consensus #1 high-school player (personally I don't believe he's peaked).  Ok.  I can understand that argument too.

So I won't hate it if we go with Ja.  I'm just nervous he will be overwhelmed when he gets in league and lose confidence.  That can be hard to overcome.  RJ is already battle-tested and had to face huge expectations before.

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11 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

I can't because I'm clearly not at your lvl when it comes to this you should of have been our new gm.

Now that I see the light I just want to know who does RJ Barret remind you of coming out of college ???

I haven't seen a lot of him but I think he reminds me of a young DeMar DeRozen with a bit better defense. 

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2 minutes ago, pjs said:

Well said.  I too believe RJ is the safer (and more proven) pick.

I have mixed feelings.  The argument I can understand for taking Ja over RJ is ... Ja is improving exponentially each year (think about it ... from a 0-star rating in high-school to a top-3 NBA lottery pick in 2 years, that is amazing!) and Ja has't reached his ceiling yet while RJ may have peaked.  Ok.  I can understand that argument too.

So I won't hate it if we go with Ja.  I'm just nervous he will be over-whelmed when he gets in league and lose confidence.  That can be hard to overcome.

I'm pro-Ja, but that concern is completely understandable. It's exactly what happened to Jimmer Fredette.

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19 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I haven't seen a lot of him but I think he reminds me of a young DeMar DeRozen with a bit better defense. 

DeRozen is a decent comp.  I'm hesitant to say it ... but I kind of see a taller James Harden (when he was a rookie at OKC) before he became "The Beard".  Smooth ball handler.  Strong enough, but not a beast athlete ... very crafty with ball.  Harden was probably a better outside shooter coming into league, but wasn't exactly great (yet).  RJ is a better defender.

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8 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I haven't seen a lot of him but I think he reminds me of a young DeMar DeRozen with a bit better defense. 

That's actually high praise..who would you rather have chip?

Personally I'm not as high on RJ when Zion when down he had the chance to take over as the  number 1 he fail to deliver.

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43 minutes ago, pjs said:

Sorry, I'm not sold on Ja.  Highlight films don't matter.  The question is ... what will he do against the elite?  The answer is ... we have no idea because he really hasn't had the opportunity to play against the elite.  Playing against the best in college day-in-day-out in the biggest venues has to be worth something.  He might be all-world like many are saying.  Call me skeptical.

All I know is the Grizzlies have needed a wing player that can score when defenses turn up the heat, especially to close out quarters or games.  If it were me, I'd take RJ.

Well Trae Young should give you hope on Ja.    Even if his athleticism doesn't give him a huge advantage.   His playmaking is legit.    The thing that impressed me most about Young was his ability to create for others.   Morant is on that level if not higher.    Both Trae and Luka's playmaking ability immediately translated to the pros after they were given the keys.     Morant's shot will continue to improve and his scoring potential is also great but his playmaking shouldn't be overlooked.   He is also bigger than Trae and on a different planet athletically over Luka and Young.   They are simply better shooters but it's not like he can't shoot (Elfrid).  

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/06/29/2019-draft-primer-ja-morant-the-ultimate-sleeper/   Old article from earlier in the year that evaluated his freshman campaign.

Morant was one of three freshmen nationally to post a triple-double last season and became just the seventh freshman in the last 25 years to record 150 assists, 150 rebounds, and 10 blocks while shooting at least 42 percent from the field. The other six were Ben Simmons, John Wall, Derrick Rose, Lonzo Ball, D’Angelo Russell, and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander: three #1 picks, two #2 picks, and another lottery pick. Morant accomplished all this on a Murray State team that plowed through the Ohio Valley Conference and gave West Virginia a run for its money in the tournament. He wasn’t just given free reign to pad his stats on a bad team. Best of all? Morant managed these feats as one of the youngest players in college basketball; he doesn’t turn 19 until August. He is younger than many of the top point guards in the incoming freshman class, as Devon Dotson, Ashton Hagans, and Jahvon Quinerly are all older.....When watching Morant, it doesn’t take long to realize that he’s on a different athletic plane than most of his competitors. This is especially true at the mid-major level, but even against high-major competition, his raw physical talent jumps off the screen....Morant was one of the most devastating closeout attackers in the NCAA last season; he led the country in points per possession on spot-up possessions that led to drives among players with at least 30 possessions of that play type. The gap in PPP between him and second place was roughly equal to the gap between second place and 54th place.

I am good with picking Ja.   I was an RJ guy at first but Ja has SuperStar potential.  

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Just now, costarica2 said:

That's actually high praise..who would you rather have chip?

Personally I'm not as high on RJ when Zion when down he had the chance to take over as number 1 he fail to deliver.

I am ambivalent right now. Ja Morant seems like the logical choice but he only played 4 games last season against high quality opponents (and I am including Alabama in that list). He was great in three of those games but there's a big difference between getting up for one of four games and having to play up in 82 games. 

Barrett has limitations. However I don't believe you are judging Barrett fairy saying he didn't step up when Zion went down. Zion missed the UNC game (2/20) and Barrett went for 33 points, 13 rebounds and 4 assists. He followed that up with 30 points, 5 rebounds and 7 assists against Syracuse, 21 points, 4 rebounds and 5 assists against Va Tech, 19 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists against Miami, 28 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists against Wake Forest and 26 points, 12 rebounds and 4 assists against UNC in the final game of the season. 

How is that failing to deliver? This is against tough ACC teams without their best player playing and teams focused on stopping him too. 

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7 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I am ambivalent right now. Ja Morant seems like the logical choice but he only played 4 games last season against high quality opponents (and I am including Alabama in that list). He was great in three of those games but there's a big difference between getting up for one of four games and having to play up in 82 games. 

Barrett has limitations. However I don't believe you are judging Barrett fairy saying he didn't step up when Zion went down. Zion missed the UNC game (2/20) and Barrett went for 33 points, 13 rebounds and 4 assists. He followed that up with 30 points, 5 rebounds and 7 assists against Syracuse, 21 points, 4 rebounds and 5 assists against Va Tech, 19 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists against Miami, 28 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists against Wake Forest and 26 points, 12 rebounds and 4 assists against UNC in the final game of the season. 

How is that failing to deliver? This is against tough ACC teams without their best player playing and teams focused on stopping him too. 

He had good stats but he never took the moment to shine it was always when will Zion come back it was never RJ will take us all the way we don't need Zion that never happend it was never his team.

Ja played against bad competion but his teammates were YMCA type players he had 0 help unlike RJ who had a LOADED team when it comes to college hoops.

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Just now, costarica2 said:

He had good stats but he never took the moment to shine it was always when will Zion it was never RJ will take us all the way we don't need Zion.

Ja is played against bad competion but his teammates were YMCA type players he 0 help unlike RJ who LOADED team when it comes to college hoops.

You don't need All-Americans to defeat East Tennessee State, Belmont, Tenn-Martin and the like.

And I am not saying Ja Morant isn't a great player either. He is but I find it hard to discount R J Barrett for not standing out more for what he did on Zion's team when Morant played AAU ball with Zion and wasn't even recruited heavily. Zion has the ability to make others look somewhat less than they are perhaps.  

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35 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I haven't seen a lot of him but I think he reminds me of a young DeMar DeRozen with a bit better defense. 

yeah i like that comp he has more dawg in him i think   so a mix of Jalen Rose or grant hill or maybe more like Sprewell in some ways .  kind of like Gerald Henderson with an SF body if we wanna talk about floor's i think that might be pretty close but henderson never really had a true spot on the floor and nowadays teams can hide that a bit more than even a few short years ago . when the last time we worried about tweeners 😂

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This small shcool bad competition is a bad argument the NBA has show that doesn't matter at all.

Just look at Lillard and McCollum even Curry when to Davison. 

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1 hour ago, CoolHandGriz said:

This is every big game he played in this season. It's not many but as you can see, he still dominated.

vs Florida St in NCAA - 28 pts, 4 ast, 5 reb, (5-6 from three)

vs Marquette in NCAA - 17 pts, 16 ast, 11 reb  (2-2 from three)

vs Belmont in OVC championship - 36 pts, 3 ast, 7 reb

vs Auburn - 25 pts, 7 ast, 8 reb

vs Alabama - 38 pts, 5 ast, 9 reb

With all this being said I would still be fine with RJ at 2. Either one is a slam dunk imo.

His ability to finish at the rim and be effective in the mid-range against taller players concerns me though - take the FSU for example, where he shot 20% on 2PT FG% (3-15). I still like him over RJ, but we should be prepared for some growing pains his first year or two in the league (just like Trae has/is experiencing).

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39 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You don't need All-Americans to defeat East Tennessee State, Belmont, Tenn-Martin and the like.

Maybe he really IS Elliott Perry 2.0.  

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Barrett isn't a safer pick than Ja at all. 

How many elite skills would you say that Barrett currently has? I would say zero. 

Ja already has one elite skill with his passing/vision, something that's ridiculously rare in the NBA. And this isn't a skill that's dependent on being bigger/stronger/faster than other people. His athleticism is also another arguable elite skill. Let's not overthink this fellas, people trying to argue something different just to be different. How many times do prospects with above average/elite athleticism and an absurd work ethic bust? How many times do those guys not improve exponentially? Sometimes it is literally that simple. 

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2 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

Barrett isn't a safer pick than Ja at all. 

How many elite skills would you say that Barrett currently has? I would say zero. 

Ja already has one elite skill with his passing/vision, something that's ridiculously rare in the NBA. And this isn't a skill that's dependent on being bigger/stronger/faster than other people. His athleticism is also another arguable elite skill. Let's not overthink this fellas, people trying to argue something different just to be different. How many times do prospects with above average/elite athleticism and an absurd work ethic bust? How many times do those guys not improve exponentially? Sometimes it is literally that simple. 

Interesting viewpoint. 

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35 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

This small shcool bad competition is a bad argument the NBA has show that doesn't matter at all.

Just look at Lillard and McCollum even Curry when to Davison. 

Curry showed a lot more in the NCAA than Morant. McCollum led Lehigh over Duke in the tournament as a 15th seed. Lillard, Curry and McCollum all stayed in school for more than two years as well. 

Still your point is well taken. Weber State, Lehigh and Davidson all are considered second tier schools and they all have produced players who have performed in the NBA. Of course, Curry was drafted 7th, Lillard was 6th and McCollum was 10th. Morant would be the youngest of the group and drafted the highest. 

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7 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

reddish is the most talented player in the draft longterm...that why i want to draft ja and trade conley for reddish

I figured you would prefer Bol Bol with Kyle and Bruno in the backcourt. lol

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18 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I figured you would prefer Bol Bol with Kyle and Bruno in the backcourt. lol

ohh they're still in the picture

future starting five

ja/reddish/slomo/bruno/3js...this is if 3js puts on enough size to play the 5 if not

ja/reddish/bruno/3js/jv

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51 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

Barrett isn't a safer pick than Ja at all. 

How many elite skills would you say that Barrett currently has? I would say zero. 

Ja already has one elite skill with his passing/vision, something that's ridiculously rare in the NBA. And this isn't a skill that's dependent on being bigger/stronger/faster than other people. His athleticism is also another arguable elite skill. Let's not overthink this fellas, people trying to argue something different just to be different. How many times do prospects with above average/elite athleticism and an absurd work ethic bust? How many times do those guys not improve exponentially? Sometimes it is literally that simple. 

I like this...….I feel good about Ja for sure.

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People are completely missing the point here. you're not trying to draft a college Superstar you're trying to draft an NBA superstar. Would any of y'all have thought ja was a superstar in the making last year?

Absolutely not.

just because cam didn't have a great freshman season doesn't mean he's not going to skyrocket when he gets into the NBA. 

Marvin Bagley had a great freshman season and yet jaren Jackson Jr overcame him once they got into the NBA.

But this board is going to scorch the Earth if ja is not drafted so you know

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And anybody that even considers RJ Barrett as a potential draft pick is just not watching the NBA. Who wants a wing player that cant shoot a three-pointer it don't even make sense

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4 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

People are completely missing the point here. you're not trying to draft a college Superstar you're trying to draft an NBA superstar. Would any of y'all have thought ja was a superstar in the making last year?

Absolutely not.

just because cam didn't have a great freshman season doesn't mean he's not going to skyrocket when he gets into the NBA. 

Marvin Bagley had a great freshman season and yet jaren Jackson Jr overcame him once they got into the NBA.

But this board is going to scorch the Earth if ja is not drafted so you know

hey i love reddish to (why i want to trade conley for) but to  sit here and act like morant is going to be a bust is  crazy...heck zion has more bust potential than morant/reddish

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