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Ole Dirty Klondike

Where Should Conley Be Traded?

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I am simply amazed at what you guys actually think Mike Conley will bring back. You dont want Hayward and our pick back cause Hayward, who has recently made an All star team in the West and Conley never has, makes too much. Ok fine. Look for some cap relief. No one is going to just give you full cap relief this year and offer meaningful assets. The best they will do is do what X is saying which is offer some players with shorter deals attached with picks. If you cant see that Reggie Jackson, Jon Leuer (shorter expiring contracts) and two first rounders is exactly the type of deal to expect then you have pretty much gone mad and you are in for yet another rude awakening just like when Gasol was traded.

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18 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Man I agree. Trading him to a team of his wishes is some of that Grizz baloney that we always hear. Even in starting they cant get it right. You got a guy that has never been an All star on a team that has never won a game past the second round and the guy is STILL one of the highest paid players in the game...not complaining about his salary, just saying his salary makes trades extremely difficult...and we sit around and talk about him like he is some HOF candidate, like he is Tim Duncan or something and we need to respect his wishes. What in the holy hell. He wants the trade now. Trade dude to whoever offers the best package.

I agree with the sentiment of you and ODK but Pera still the owner and Mike has a direct line to him.   That is why i have a difficult time believing they will do what you suggest. 

He wants to go to a potential contender OR he wants to go to a team where he can be an AllStar.  Now that Mike is shedding his "good soldier" persona; maybe people will believe that his ppl "leaked" the rumor about him not wanting to go to Utah.  

Mike going out East. 

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If conley played for another team all these years and coming off 21p/6a season and we could pick him up for couple seasons at $30mil/yr before JJJ contract kicks in..

wed be beyond thrilled for JJJ to play with point guard that good- in their prime

but mike sounds like a baby with the sudden neediness... man up you play for Memphis, ride or die 

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I am simply amazed at what you guys actually think Mike Conley will bring back. You dont want Hayward and our pick back cause Hayward, who has recently made an All star team in the West and Conley never has, makes too much. Ok fine. Look for some cap relief. No one is going to just give you full cap relief this year and offer meaningful assets. The best they will do is do what X is saying which is offer some players with shorter deals attached with picks. If you cant see that Reggie Jackson, Jon Leuer (shorter expiring contracts) and two first rounders is exactly the type of deal to expect then you have pretty much gone mad and you are in for yet another rude awakening just like when Gasol was traded.

Boston deal can get done - there is just no reason to believe Hayward will be part of it.    FO already stated they are taking longterm view.   I don't think they are adding any more Max players for another couple of years especially ones about to be 30y.  

Gasol and Mike are different players.   Gasol was exiting his prime and known difficult personality who was underperforming playing a non-coveted position.   Mike is easy going, dynamic scoring, playoff proven and playing most important position on court.   Night and Day.    

I think Conley can fetch 1rst rd pick,  young player, and Rotation player.  Like i said Indy can offer that.  It's just a matter of getting the best one. 

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Boston deal can get done - there is just no reason to believe Hayward will be part of it.    FO already stated they are taking longterm view.   I don't think they are adding any more Max players for another couple of years especially ones about to be 30y.  

Gasol and Mike are different players.   Gasol was exiting his prime and known difficult personality who was underperforming playing a non-coveted position.   Mike is easy going, dynamic scoring, playoff proven and playing most important position on court.   Night and Day.    

I think Conley can fetch 1rst rd pick,  young player, and Rotation player.  Like i said Indy can offer that.  It's just a matter of getting the best one. 

Then who in the hell do you think Boston can trade? Your dreams of Brown and Rozier are outrageous. First of all, it doesnt work at all under the cap at all. They dont make nearly enough and Rozier is a RFA. Second, Boston isnt going to give up its second best young player for a guy that old. They would probably just resign Rozier and move on before doing that. And Indy cant just trade all its cap space for Conley, because they still have to resign Bodganovic, Young and some reserves. They would have to almost gut their roster just for Mike Conley.  Again, just not happening. 

We will receive some major salary that we dont want, even if its just for one year.

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Then who in the hell do you think Boston can trade? Your dreams of Brown and Rozier are outrageous. First of all, it doesnt work at all under the cap at all. They dont make nearly enough and Rozier is a RFA. Second, Boston isnt going to give up its second best young player for a guy that old. They would probably just resign Rozier and move on before doing that. And Indy cant just trade all its cap space for Conley, because they still have to resign Bodganovic, Young and some reserves. They would have to almost gut their roster just for Mike Conley.  Again, just not happening. 

We will receive some major salary that we dont want, even if its just for one year.

Agreed a Conley trade at best gets us a couple late 1sts and some cap relief no team is giving up a proven young player for Mike that doesn't make sense at all we couldn't even get Luke Kennard from Detroit and he hasn't really broken out yet.... Same with Utah and Exum.....maybe a team gives us a young player that's not in the rotation or looking like he's not getting his rookie deal picked up but that's about it. If they don't move Conley this off-season then when they do move him the deal will be much worse than what was on the table.

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

Then who in the hell do you think Boston can trade? Your dreams of Brown and Rozier are outrageous. First of all, it doesnt work at all under the cap at all. They dont make nearly enough and Rozier is a RFA. Second, Boston isnt going to give up its second best young player for a guy that old. They would probably just resign Rozier and move on before doing that. And Indy cant just trade all its cap space for Conley, because they still have to resign Bodganovic, Young and some reserves. They would have to almost gut their roster just for Mike Conley.  Again, just not happening. 

We will receive some major salary that we dont want, even if its just for one year.

Bos would have had to pay Kyrie same amount.    How do you think they would've signed Antony Davis?   More than likely they plan on keeping Kyrie and Hayward to go with Davis.     They are willing to give up Tatum and Brown plus multiple picks for him.   Of course they aren't giving up that much for Conley.   So yea the numbers can work.     Bos wil have to include some combination of there young guys to make it work:  Jaylen, Smart, or Rozier.    That proposal isn't as outrageous as thinking Conley will get traded for Kyle Korver,  Derick Favors and 22pick.   

Indy can make that trade.   They were in the market to get him this past deadline.     Holiday + Mcdermott + 2019 will not stop Indy from resigning their guys.  

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Also anybody think Denver could enter into Conley sweepstakes?    I don't see them getting past San Antonio and surely that would force them to make big changes next season.    Gary Harris, Will Barton or even Malik Beasley would have to be included in any deal. 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Also anybody think Denver could enter into Conley sweepstakes?    I don't see them getting past San Antonio and surely that would force them to make big changes next season.    Gary Harris, Will Barton or even Malik Beasley would have to be included in any deal. 

And this is somewhat the typical problem a lot of these playoff teams will face. To make the salaries match, it will inflict damage to the Denver roster to get MC11. He's scheduled for $32.5 million this season, and that is a big chunk of someone's starting lineup/top 8 players.  But it makes sense to add MC for Denver.

If I'm Denver, I'd rather have Jamal Murray (playing PG) with Harris, Barton, & etc vs having Mike Conley & Harris/Barton replacements.  (Unless they know Michael Porter Jr is going to be great, soon).  And Denver was shedding salaries last year.

I think he is only going to end up at a team willing to pay the luxury tax, and they may eliminate Denver and Indiana.  

The thing is, if the Grizzlies don't deal this year, it probably isn't happening in the year he makes $35 million, either.

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43 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Bos would have had to pay Kyrie same amount.    How do you think they would've signed Antony Davis?   More than likely they plan on keeping Kyrie and Hayward to go with Davis.     They are willing to give up Tatum and Brown plus multiple picks for him.   Of course they aren't giving up that much for Conley.   So yea the numbers can work.     Bos wil have to include some combination of there young guys to make it work:  Jaylen, Smart, or Rozier.    That proposal isn't as outrageous as thinking Conley will get traded for Kyle Korver,  Derick Favors and 22pick.   

Indy can make that trade.   They were in the market to get him this past deadline.     Holiday + Mcdermott + 2019 will not stop Indy from resigning their guys.  

No offense but you are somewhat clueless on how the cap and trades work and just throwing stuff out there based on what you hope then calling other people's trade ideas (who are trying to stay within the framework of what can actually happen) terrible. I mean they have all types of resources to help with these things so there is no excuse these days.

First Ad makes 27 million btw and Tatum makes almost 8 million with Brown's  6.5 million making that feasible, but there would still be some filler needed but doable...or they could include Horford and work that in. Its AD after all people will make things happen for him. All the analysts know that. Nobody is going broke for Conley.

But again, this is about Conley who makes 32.5 million. That means Boston would need to send out 26 million or something in that range. Brown makes 6.5 million next year. Rozier is a RFA. I assume you were talking about a sign and trade for Rozier (atleast I hope you were since he is only making close to 4 million). Even if you signed and traded Rozier automatically becomes a BYC compensation making the trade even more difficult. So if signed and traded to an inflated deal starting at 20 million, his deal only counts as 10 million on the Boston end and is still 20 million on Memphis's end. So Boston still would have another 10 million to send out even after grossly overpaying Rozier. And they may not be able to send all of it Memphis because they have already accepted 26.5 million. So you may need another team involved to take some more money that Boston is willing to send out (if they are) And sign and trades have to be atleast 3 years. There are reasons they are rarely done.

Indy was in the market offering expiring deals like Collinson, Tyreke Evans, etc. Its harder with "cap space" because you have to start renouncing free agents (Bodganovic, Young, Joseph) to actually have the cap space. Meaning you lose their bird rights. Also, their cap holds are at values (I believe 150%) of their previous years salaries. Also, your MLE and BLE counts against the cap too so you have to renounce that as well. So there is another layer to cap space. You cant just use it to trade for whoever you want then sign all your free agents later. Also you have minimum cap holds for up to 13 slots. Meaning if, for example, a team had nobody under contract, their cap equals 13 minimum contracts at that moment. 

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Just now, Grizzled Vet said:

And this is somewhat the typical problem a lot of these playoff teams will face. To make the salaries match, it will inflict damage to the Denver roster to get MC11. He's scheduled for $32.5 million this season, and that is a big chunk of someone's starting lineup/top 8 players.  But it makes sense to add MC for Denver.

If I'm Denver, I'd rather have Jamal Murray (playing PG) with Harris, Barton, & etc vs having Mike Conley & Harris/Barton replacements.  (Unless they know Michael Porter Jr is going to be great, soon).  And Denver was shedding salaries last year.

I think he is only going to end up at a team willing to pay the luxury tax, and they may eliminate Denver and Indiana.  

The thing is, if the Grizzlies don't deal this year, it probably isn't happening in the year he makes $35 million, either.

Milsap 30m is dropping off the books.  That's why i thought of them as a potential destination.    I mean did anybody predict Marc going to Toronto?   There will be a team that comes out of left field in Conley sweepstakes too.    

The thing i am sure about is whatever team it is will be in "win now mode" or fringe teams in middle of Playoff droughts.  That's why its wise to look at teams like DEN, PHI, ORL, and Minny. 

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44 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Bos would have had to pay Kyrie same amount.    How do you think they would've signed Antony Davis?   More than likely they plan on keeping Kyrie and Hayward to go with Davis.     They are willing to give up Tatum and Brown plus multiple picks for him.   Of course they aren't giving up that much for Conley.   So yea the numbers can work.     Bos wil have to include some combination of there young guys to make it work:  Jaylen, Smart, or Rozier.    That proposal isn't as outrageous as thinking Conley will get traded for Kyle Korver,  Derick Favors and 22pick.   

Indy can make that trade.   They were in the market to get him this past deadline.     Holiday + Mcdermott + 2019 will not stop Indy from resigning their guys.  

Conley makes 32mill that would take up alot of Indy's money. Conleys deal alone could cost them two rotation players I don't think Indy wants to be in the grizzlies boat. Close to the tax line with borderline players not really challenging for a title. Those two equal about 9mil so that's close to 23mil they have to absorb. Plus they have to resign Thad, Bojan, Corey Joseph, maybe tyreke, and add depth that's a pretty high payroll and they can't afford to sacrifice those rotation guys and claim to be a contender in the east.

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Milsap 30m is dropping off the books.  That's why i thought of them as a potential destination.    I mean did anybody predict Marc going to Toronto?   There will be a team that comes out of left field in Conley sweepstakes too.    

The thing i am sure about is whatever team it is will be in "win now mode" or fringe teams in middle of Playoff droughts.  That's why its wise to look at teams like DEN, PHI, ORL, and Minny. 

 

I'm not convinced Milsaps will drop off their books completely.  Although they have a team option on him, they still need a PF like him, so they might think in their best interest to do a resign for 4 years $45 (or something like that) or hope someone else on roster is ready.

Again, they are still in the mode of having to make decisions on how much damage it will be doing to their team to make a move on Conley, and it is something several other teams have to decide, plus how many draft picks they are willing to give up.

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Only reason why Indy pulled Conley trade this past offseason is because Oladipo went down.   Why are ya'll assuming that they want to resign Collison, Thad, Joseph,  Tyreke and Bojan???    I see at most 2 of them coming back and with cap going up and Bird rights they can bring them back and still keep Conley.    

There is also the possibility of 3 team trades.   I could propose any of those to make it work too but you all will obviously scoff at them as well.   Which is why i haven't wasted my time.   I am purely looking at assets from other teams that may want Conley.    Teams that are interested in a player usually involve a 3rd team to make it work if need be.    

I think its unrealistic to think that Grizz value their pick back enough to take on Haywards bad contract.   Or think Memphis will take that garbage offer from Det or Utah.  

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4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

I'm not convinced Milsaps will drop off their books completely.  Although they have a team option on him, they still need a PF like him, so they might think in their best interest to do a resign for 4 years $45 (or something like that) or hope someone else on roster is ready.

Again, they are still in the mode of having to make decisions on how much damage it will be doing to their team to make a move on Conley, and it is something several other teams have to decide, plus how many draft picks they are willing to give up.

I get that the numbers look crazy right now.    I am just looking at teams that would potentially be interested.   Of course they will have to reshuffle the decks to make it work but it's not impossible.   

Seems like a few of ya'll are looking at it purely from in-season trade mindset.     This off-season teams will have capspace so we do not have to return same dollar amount to make it work.    Some teams will be able to carry 3 near Max contracts.  

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14 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I get that the numbers look crazy right now.    I am just looking at teams that would potentially be interested.   Of course they will have to reshuffle the decks to make it work but it's not impossible.   

Seems like a few of ya'll are looking at it purely from in-season trade mindset.     This off-season teams will have capspace so we do not have to return same dollar amount to make it work.    Some teams will be able to carry 3 near Max contracts.  

Yea and they probably would like to fill those holes with Max level talent not absorb an overpaid Conley. Adding Conley isn't pushing any team that has been mentioned into championships contention he's just a pieceto add to a team that's close say Milwaukee for instance.....Teams with capspace can just hold out for Kemba they are similar players and it wouldn't involve gutting the teams depth. I think the list will consist mostly of the same teams from the deadline alot of teams would likely wait to see how free agency shakes out before doing a Conley deal since similar to better pgs will be on the market Kyrie, Dlo, Kemba, Bledsoe, DRose, Dragic. Not alot of teams with capspace just gonna give it up along with assets until the crop of pgs similar to Mike start to thin out

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13 hours ago, Dwash said:

You keep calling all the packages "crap" but if you contact 29 teams over the course of a year and thats the best offer you can get...what does that say about what you are selling? 

It means the system for doing trades in the NBA makes it difficult to make trades and it means they can't afford to give up what it costs.  It doesn't mean they don't want the product.

 

A lot of this conversation is meaningless until we see what happens in the lottery.  Two full years of having the freedom to tank is a lot different than having Zion.

If the pick is conveyed this year, it makes more sense to give up Conley knowing the team has a real good chance to have a lot of lottery balls the next two years, so you might as well go for as many draft picks as possible, and almost as important, as much cap space as possible in 2020-21 to play the cap space game.

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23 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

Yea and they probably would like to fill those holes with Max level talent not absorb an overpaid Conley. Adding Conley isn't pushing any team that has been mentioned into championships contention he's just a pieceto add to a team that's close say Milwaukee for instance.....Teams with capspace can just hold out for Kemba they are similar players and it wouldn't involve gutting the teams depth. I think the list will consist mostly of the same teams from the deadline alot of teams would likely wait to see how free agency shakes out before doing a Conley deal since similar to better pgs will be on the market Kyrie, Dlo, Kemba, Bledsoe, DRose, Dragic. Not alot of teams with capspace just gonna give it up along with assets until the crop of pgs similar to Mike start to thin out

Kyrie teir 1 Conley DLo and Kemba are tier 2  then the rest.

To fit him into roster salarywise those teams will need to gut roster to pay those other guys too.

Seems to me this is mainly an exercise on each posters value of Conley.  

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23 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

It means the system for doing trades in the NBA makes it difficult to make trades and it means they can't afford to give up what it costs.  It doesn't mean they don't want the product.

 

A lot of this conversation is meaningless until we see what happens in the lottery.  Two full years of having the freedom to tank is a lot different than having Zion.

If the pick is conveyed this year, it makes more sense to give up Conley knowing the team has a real good chance to have a lot of lottery balls the next two years, so you might as well go for as many draft picks as possible, and almost as important, as much cap space as possible in 2020-21 to play the cap space game.

But thats my point. Trade value is a 3 part exercise. Production, contract and age. You cant only look at one part and ignore that he doesnt grade well in the other two.

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Another caveat is that more than likely this is it for Warriors run.   They could lose this season and likely Durant is gone.   Teams would view it as Window opening up time to go all in.

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20 hours ago, lions said:

very good move

Hell yeah it's a good move. Too good. That's why Indiana would laugh us back halfway to Paducah if we came at them with that offer!

Oladipo's better than Conley straight up but yeah let's throw in a promising young big too...

I'll have what yall are smokin.

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