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Kevin B Moses

NBA Playoffs thread

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9 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Man... hate that had to happen...

everybody on earth knows what he had to go through just to get back on the court ... 

to see him go down again.. ugh.

the cheering was kinda low / no class ...(still won’t hold it against them though...fans / fanatics aren’t too shy to shoot off at the mouth without thinking - caught up in the moment... I’m sure when their emotions settled down they were truly ,as we all are shocked stuck on disbelief .

nahhh , not kd not the same leg ...the leg that we all knew was not ready yet the he Manned up and went out there. Fully aware of his condition and he suited up anyway. He was mentally prepared to play through the physical pain just as long as he could control his limbs.

Never been much of a kd fan ... I am now.

This does kinda make me wonder - who (really) has the players best interest at heart when making the play / no play decisions?

Last season Kawhi made it known that he was not ready ... he sat out WITH HIS OWN CREW OF DOCTORS- clearly  the ones they assigned him were not on the same page ...he assembled a team of medical experts and he and got it together , now he’s back - on another team balling outta his mind.

maybe he knew somthings last season and took his own time to get his body back to where it need to be for a championship ride.

Boogie, Klay, Looney , and KD - May have felt some type of pressure to try to get back out there knowing they were not ready and knowing the risks they were taking by trying to gut it out. 

As a man - I get it ... sports have a lot of chest thumping alpha male type thing going... but we NEED medical staff that has the weight of the entire franchise backing them up . Make a real call . Yes limited minutes . Or no minutes .

MY CALL - IM RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE. SIT DOWN OVER HERE WITH ME FOR A QUICK STRETCH AND PAIN EVALUATION.

TELL ME THE TRUTH AND I WILL ADD MORE RECCOMENDATION. JUST KNOW - ITS JUST A GAME.A GAME YOU LOVE MORE THAN MNAY OF US.YOU HAVE PROVED YOUR HEART ...MANY MANY TIMES.WE ALL see THE same thing : in basketball WHOLE WORLD KNOWS you are THAT dude..

HERES YOUR CHQNC TO SIT BACK BREATHE, MEDITATE A LILBIT..

This is on coach Kerr as well. KD was off for a month (and still not 100%) and his first game back Kerr plays him for 10 minutes of the 1st quarter. Then Kerr puts him back in to start the 2nd quarter. I know GSW was desperate, but that was too much time for his first game back.

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4 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

If Durant's injury is indeed a torn achilles and the Warriors forced him to come back, if I'm Durant, I'm looking for the Warriors to compensate me for the lost payday. He was 3 weeks away from FA. I've been going back and forth with people all series and I held firm, there's no way I would come back if i was Durant because he's 3 weeks away from FA. You have to look out for #1. These teams always look out for #1. Screw all of this tough crap i have no idea how risking a devastating injury right before a humongous payday is looked at as being tough. He could have had an entire offseason to recover if he didn't play in this series. 

Oh and all of those Raptors fans cheering his injury shows just how classless a lot of these "fans" can be. I'm not even a KD fan and I think he's been a total jerk since being on GS but cheering an injury is just disgusting. 

 

Not all the fans were cheering because he was injured.  I know that is the great media story, but sometime fans do show support by clapping as a player is helped off, especially if you respect the player.   I'm not defending those fans who cheered the injury, because it is my guess that was the majority of the cheerers, but I don't condemn all the Toronto fans either.

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

Not all the fans were cheering because he was injured.  I know that is the great media story, but sometime fans do show support by clapping as a player is helped off, especially if you respect the player.   I'm not defending those fans who cheered the injury, because it is my guess that was the majority of the cheerers, but I don't condemn all the Toronto fans either.

 

 

 

I never said all Raptors fans, I said all of those Raptors fans cheering his injury meaning a subset. It was a enough for Kyle Lower to react. I don't think it was a majority but it was a good amount. Also, I think it's a big difference in applauding someone who is injured as they walk off the court as opposed to people cheering, jeering and laughing at someone on the ground. Once again, Lowry's reaction is enough to justify that there were a lot cheering his injury.

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36 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I never said all Raptors fans, I said all of those Raptors fans cheering his injury meaning a subset. It was a enough for Kyle Lower to react. I don't think it was a majority but it was a good amount. Also, I think it's a big difference in applauding someone who is injured as they walk off the court as opposed to people cheering, jeering and laughing at someone on the ground. Once again, Lowry's reaction is enough to justify that there were a lot cheering his injury.

No excuse, but its the perception that the loaded and hated Warriors were coming to take the title out their hands with no resistance. Like most of them probably know a healthy Warrior team is easily better. So they gave a quick reaction without thinking. They were cheering the title still being in reach and not the injury. But again no excuse or no place for that.

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42 minutes ago, Dwash said:

No excuse, but its the perception that the loaded and hated Warriors were coming to take the title out their hands with no resistance. Like most of them probably know a healthy Warrior team is easily better. So they gave a quick reaction without thinking. They were cheering the title still being in reach and not the injury. But again no excuse or no place for that.

Yeah, I think they got caught up in the immediate moment, then as the severity of the situation sunk in they probably felt (rightfully) like ********. Not justified, but would explain the "KD! KD!" chant as he walked off to try and make up for prior behavior.

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11 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Man... hate that had to happen...

everybody on earth knows what he had to go through just to get back on the court ... 

to see him go down again.. ugh.

the cheering was kinda low / no class ...(still won’t hold it against them though...fans / fanatics aren’t too shy to shoot off at the mouth without thinking - caught up in the moment... I’m sure when their emotions settled down they were truly ,as we all are shocked stuck on disbelief .

nahhh , not kd not the same leg ...the leg that we all knew was not ready yet the he Manned up and went out there. Fully aware of his condition and he suited up anyway. He was mentally prepared to play through the physical pain just as long as he could control his limbs.

Never been much of a kd fan ... I am now.

This does kinda make me wonder - who (really) has the players best interest at heart when making the play / no play decisions?

Last season Kawhi made it known that he was not ready ... he sat out WITH HIS OWN CREW OF DOCTORS- clearly  the ones they assigned him were not on the same page ...he assembled a team of medical experts and he and got it together , now he’s back - on another team balling outta his mind.

maybe he knew somthings last season and took his own time to get his body back to where it need to be for a championship ride.

Boogie, Klay, Looney , and KD - May have felt some type of pressure to try to get back out there knowing they were not ready and knowing the risks they were taking by trying to gut it out. 

As a man - I get it ... sports have a lot of chest thumping alpha male type thing going... but we NEED medical staff that has the weight of the entire franchise backing them up . Make a real call . Yes limited minutes . Or no minutes .

MY CALL - IM RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE. SIT DOWN OVER HERE WITH ME FOR A QUICK STRETCH AND PAIN EVALUATION.

TELL ME THE TRUTH AND I WILL ADD MORE RECCOMENDATION. JUST KNOW - ITS JUST A GAME.A GAME YOU LOVE MORE THAN MNAY OF US.YOU HAVE PROVED YOUR HEART ...MANY MANY TIMES.WE ALL see THE same thing : in basketball WHOLE WORLD KNOWS you are THAT dude..

HERES YOUR CHQNC TO SIT BACK BREATHE, MEDITATE A LILBIT..

 

I think you overestimate the ability of doctors to diagnose injuries, especially when players aren't always honest because players want to play.

If I want to play, and by telling you something hurts a little bit means I'm going to sit out, I probably am not telling you everything.  

Think of KD's motivation after that first quarter.  He comes in and dominates, and if he leads the Warriors back from a 3-1 deficit to win the title and is named MVP, that elevates his legacy.  Think of him seeing Looney, Cousins, and Klay come back and contribute, and he's sitting out.....I think it is real tough for him to even be honest about how he's feeling.  Also, sometimes something can feel great because of adrenaline, and the player not even know how close he is to re-injury.

 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

No excuse, but its the perception that the loaded and hated Warriors were coming to take the title out their hands with no resistance. Like most of them probably know a healthy Warrior team is easily better. So they gave a quick reaction without thinking. They were cheering the title still being in reach and not the injury. But again no excuse or no place for that.

 

And there is a proportion to every passionate fan base that is going to respond like that in the mob atmosphere of a crowd.

I can't honestly say that if I was at a Grizzlies playoff game from the past, and I saw Chris Paul/Blake Griffin/Russell Westbrook/Kevin Durant limp off in injury, I wouldn't have had a strong inclination to be happy.  Maybe I wouldn't cheer, but maybe I would have, I don't know, but I probably wouldn't have been disappointed either.  

I'm not going to be hypocrite about the whole situation though and believe that one passionate fan base is above another one in this case.

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4 hours ago, ACGrizz said:

Yeah, I think they got caught up in the immediate moment, then as the severity of the situation sunk in they probably felt (rightfully) like ********. Not justified, but would explain the "KD! KD!" chant as he walked off to try and make up for prior behavior.

Agreed, when the crowd realised this injury was bad, they changed - but it was terrible to see KD like that.

 

2 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

And there is a proportion to every passionate fan base that is going to respond like that in the mob atmosphere of a crowd.

I can't honestly say that if I was at a Grizzlies playoff game from the past, and I saw Chris Paul/Blake Griffin/Russell Westbrook/Kevin Durant limp off in injury, I wouldn't have had a strong inclination to be happy.  Maybe I wouldn't cheer, but maybe I would have, I don't know, but I probably wouldn't have been disappointed either.  

I'm not going to be hypocrite about the whole situation though and believe that one passionate fan base is above another one in this case.

Chris Faul and Flake Griffin are in a totally different category. When Flake got injured in that series against us, there were quite a few happy about that. I don't think so much about it being "let's hope he gets hurt", more a case of "good, he's out, let's take it and get the win"

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10 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Teams put undue pressure on these players all of the time. Two names that come to mind are Penny Hardaway in Orlando and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio. There's a reason why Leonard forced a trade and refused to play. They're injuries were mishandled by their teams.

Teams have all types of political leverage and psychological games that they play with these players. People need to realize that when a doctor says someone is cleared to play, that doesn't necessarily mean that player is 100%. It's an educated guess that the probability that they can return  and play is high enough for them to clear them. They've looked at some images and said well it's structurally sound enough to return and did some functional/strength tests. That doesn't mean you might not re-injure yourself right away. They can't predict that. Rest is the best medicine sometimes but if a doctor cleared them you can best believe those teams are putting pressure on that player to be out on the court, especially during the Finals. if he would have sat out and they lost, there would have been all types of blowback from the media and everywhere else and probably leaks from the GS organization about him being soft. 

I'll just leave it with this quote from the teary press conference from the Warriors GM:

 

Jalen Rose is 100% on point with his assessment.  If they were up 3-1, there was no chance you would have seen Durant out there but since they were down 3-1 and some doctor cleared him, he had no choice but to be out there. It's the culture of sports

 

 

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10 hours ago, Grizz&Grind said:

Worst timeout in sports history, or at least a first place tie with Webber.

I keep seein this everywhere but the non-timeout was 1000x worse. Kawhi needed a breather, it looks like he signalled to Lowry to call one before they lose it at the 3 minute mark. Where Nurse n K̶a̶w̶h̶i̶  FVV really ****** up was not calling one at the end there to run a proper play.  

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11 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Teams put undue pressure on these players all of the time. Two names that come to mind are Penny Hardaway in Orlando and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio. There's a reason why Leonard forced a trade and refused to play. They're injuries were mishandled by their teams.

Teams have all types of political leverage and psychological games that they play with these players. People need to realize that when a doctor says someone is cleared to play, that doesn't necessarily mean that player is 100%. It's an educated guess that the probability that they can return  and play is high enough for them to clear them. They've looked at some images and said well it's structurally sound enough to return and did some functional/strength tests. That doesn't mean you might not re-injure yourself right away. They can't predict that. Rest is the best medicine sometimes but if a doctor cleared them you can best believe those teams are putting pressure on that player to be out on the court, especially during the Finals. if he would have sat out and they lost, there would have been all types of blowback from the media and everywhere else and probably leaks from the GS organization about him being soft. 

I'll just leave it with this quote from the teary press conference from the Warriors GM:

 

These statements could be applied to tons of regular guy jobs, as well as kids in school.  When it comes down to it the person making the decision, saying "okay", is the one who is responsible.  If you decide something, you should accept what comes from that decision.  KD is a grown man and was holding the cards.  He could've declined, and then got his fat payday a month later.  He already had two rings.

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6 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

I think you overestimate the ability of doctors to diagnose injuries, especially when players aren't always honest because players want to play.

If I want to play, and by telling you something hurts a little bit means I'm going to sit out, I probably am not telling you everything.  

Think of KD's motivation after that first quarter.  He comes in and dominates, and if he leads the Warriors back from a 3-1 deficit to win the title and is named MVP, that elevates his legacy.  Think of him seeing Looney, Cousins, and Klay come back and contribute, and he's sitting out.....I think it is real tough for him to even be honest about how he's feeling.  Also, sometimes something can feel great because of adrenaline, and the player not even know how close he is to re-injury.

 

How dare you calmly disagree with my post whilst providing a clear explanation for your opposing viewpoint ...🧐

✌️😏

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1 hour ago, smit-tay griz said:

These statements could be applied to tons of regular guy jobs, as well as kids in school.  When it comes down to it the person making the decision, saying "okay", is the one who is responsible.  If you decide something, you should accept what comes from that decision.  KD is a grown man and was holding the cards.  He could've declined, and then got his fat payday a month later.  He already had two rings.

The more I think about it ... playing injured , in the Finals , with your team down 3-1 may have been the only move kd could have made to increase his basketball brand.

Had he not played we all know what the perception would have been.

(we all heard the rumblings)

Had he played and played poorly -all the hot takes ‘ Even kd couldn’t save the warriors’ etc...

As strange as it feels to type this - I think kd has gained more than a few sympathetic followers... 

I can also see this situation being used as a cautionary tale to future superstars ... will have to seriously consider the risk of playing themselves into a serious and possibly financially damaging injury scenario...

I still remember people dragging D. Rose for not playing through it and not gutting it out ... 

 

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KD decide to come back not the doctor. He want to be the VIP and the savor of GSW. Can understand that.  And if he tell the doctor he was okay, no chance for doctor to find out.

Regarding the fan reaction who cheeer up, there are just plain stupid. If Memphis was in final and KD get injured, i will probably think, great news for us and not be unhappy but the is zero chance i applause. You can't enjoy yourself with the missfortune of others. 

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5 minutes ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

KD decide to come back not the doctor. He want to be the VIP and the savor of GSW. Can understand that.  And if he tell the doctor he was okay, no chance for doctor to find out.

Regarding the fan reaction who cheeer up, there are just plain stupid. If Memphis was in final and KD get injured, i will probably think, great news for us and not be unhappy but the is zero chance i applause. You can't enjoy yourself with the missfortune of others. 

I don't ever want to see anyone hurt.  Truthfully, I'd prefer to play the opposition when they're all healthy and beat the tar out of 'em.  It just leaves no doubt.

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I know people are believing this hurts KD in free agency, but I believe he will have his choice still of taking the player option or taking a max offer somewhere else like NY or Nets or Clippers.

If KD came to the Grizzlies and said, "Sign me to a 4 year deal at max and let me sit all next year, but you will have me for 3 years", I would hope our FO would do it, and I'm sure the Knicks would.  

It is so hard for a team to get talent like that, paying 4 years to get him for 3 is worth it.

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4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

If KD came to the Grizzlies and said, "Sign me to a 4 year deal at max and let me sit all next year, but you will have me for 3 years", I would hope our FO would do it, and I'm sure the Knicks would. 

Not a chance... we’d probably be tripping over our own feet trying to sign Melo AND J.R. Smith

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My dad has had a lifetime of working injured throwing luggage at the airport and it has caught up to him, he can barely walk and needs both knees replaced.  And he wasn't making 30 million dollars a year.  I feel bad for KD but some of the coverage of this is ridiculous.  If you are able to play you play.  That's why you get paid the big bucks.

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35 minutes ago, kevofrommempho said:

My dad has had a lifetime of working injured throwing luggage at the airport and it has caught up to him, he can barely walk and needs both knees replaced.  And he wasn't making 30 million dollars a year.  I feel bad for KD but some of the coverage of this is ridiculous.  If you are able to play you play.  That's why you get paid the big bucks.

I kinda start thinking about that too yesterday. Like we always say its horrible to cheer for injuries. Its not cool, but really how big of a deal is it? These guys are paid to put their bodies on the line...and paid well. When a NFL safety puts a crushing hit on a WR that knocks him out cold people go crazy. Replay it on youtube until their eyeballs fall out. These guys bodies are abused.

At the end of the day, whats the worse that really happened. KD has surgery and a tough rehab. While he is paid to workout.  Pain for a week or two after surgery. All athletes at this level go through pain. It might cost a multi millionaire some money...maybe in this case. Thats really it.

I mean I would tear my own achilles today if I could trade jobs and bank accounts with KD.

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Probably stupid long-term, but I really admire KD for giving it a go.  

At some point the wheels fall off. Maybe the wheels are falling off.

If the Warriors storm back to win the series then KD should get a lot of credit.  You can't take anything away from KD at that point or question his toughness.  

Then after his rehab the last phase of his career will determine where he ends up in the all-time greats list.  He's probably on Small Forward Mount Rushmore anyway along with LeBron, Bird, and Scottie Pippen (sorry Dr. J).  

It's kind of jarring how LeBron went down this year AND KD went down.  Not that their careers are over but it IS the beginning of the end.  These new guys better be ready to take over.  

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4 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Probably stupid long-term, but I really admire KD for giving it a go.  

At some point the wheels fall off. Maybe the wheels are falling off.

If the Warriors storm back to win the series then KD should get a lot of credit.  You can't take anything away from KD at that point or question his toughness.  

Then after his rehab the last phase of his career will determine where he ends up in the all-time greats list.  He's probably on Small Forward Mount Rushmore anyway along with LeBron, Bird, and Scottie Pippen (sorry Dr. J).  

It's kind of jarring how LeBron went down this year AND KD went down.  Not that their careers are over but it IS the beginning of the end.  These new guys better be ready to take over.  

I know it's not popular to say now, but I'm still not a KD fan. I'm not happy he got injured, and I'm not happy he's missing next season, but it doesn't change who he's been the last 5-6 years.

 

I truly respect his decision to give it a go, but he will still always be that guy that was part of a team that was up 3-1 on the Golden State Warriors in the WCF, and left to join a 73 win team.  Yes, he had the right to go wherever he wanted as a free agent, but any fan has the right to criticize the way he won his championships.  I also think he's a whiny phony of a player that gets almost as many calls as anybody, yet feels entitled to complain about way too many calls.

 

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13 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I know it's not popular to say now, but I'm still not a KD fan. I'm not happy he got injured, and I'm not happy he's missing next season, but it doesn't change who he's been the last 5-6 years.

 

I truly respect his decision to give it a go, but he will still always be that guy that was part of a team that was up 3-1 on the Golden State Warriors in the WCF, and left to join a 73 win team.  Yes, he had the right to go wherever he wanted as a free agent, but any fan has the right to criticize the way he won his championships.  I also think he's a whiny phony of a player that gets almost as many calls as anybody, yet feels entitled to complain about way too many calls.

 

Wow.  My sentiments exactly.

In fact I became a little bit of a CJ McCollum fan (who I used to hate) because he called him out for joining the team he couldn't beat; instead of kissing his *** and saying all the politically correct things that most we're saying.

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3 hours ago, CarloJ63 said:

Wow.  My sentiments exactly.

In fact I became a little bit of a CJ McCollum fan (who I used to hate) because he called him out for joining the team he couldn't beat; instead of kissing his *** and saying all the politically correct things that most we're saying.

Why’d you hate CJ? Just curious since he’s always seemed like a good dude. 

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On 6/11/2019 at 8:45 PM, FrenchGrizzlies said:

KD decide to come back not the doctor. He want to be the VIP and the savor of GSW. Can understand that.  And if he tell the doctor he was okay, no chance for doctor to find out.

 

Durant saved them last game.  If the Warriors win the title, give a LOT of props to Kevin Durant.  He totally changed the psychology of the series.

#UltimateWarrior

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