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Thoughts about the off season "rebuild"

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Another Legit Question:

Who would you choose:  Holiday or Dorsey for next 2 years?  

Dorsey is younger and fits in with Jaren's window and offers some ballhandling and passing.      Holiday is better defender (by miles) and more versatile player and better shooter.   Holiday is who he is and is age 30.    Team looks like this so far. 

  • PG: Delon Wright, Jevon Carter
  • SG: Avery Bradley,  CJ Miles
  • SF: Kyle Anderson, Dillon Brooks,
  • PF: Jaren Jackson, Bruno Caboclo, Chandler Parsons
  • C Jonas Valanciunas, Ivan Rabb

Personally, i am starting to lean more towards keeping Justin especially if we keep our pick.    His jumpshot is more dependable and his defense.   He is much better defending guards than forwards but wasn't able to do that due to injuries.    With Conley gone i think we need more actual NBA players on the roster.    Dorsey is a project and would be end of rotation guy at best.   His defense is horrendous and doesn't project to improve.   Jaren, Bruno, Dillon, Kyle, and Pick will be more than enough youth to develop so i won't lose sleep over Dorsey.    I'd rather give his spot to young PG.  

 

 

How about Dorsey or Carter?  The franchise has shown they've been willing to let guys walk with years remaining. Obviously, if Conley is gone, whatever the replacement is would be a factor.

 

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Just now, Grizzled Vet said:

 

How about Dorsey or Carter?  The franchise has shown they've been willing to let guys walk with years remaining. Obviously, if Conley is gone, whatever the replacement is would be a factor.

 

With Conley likely gone Carter becomes more valuable (plus he is already signed).     Dorsey and Holiday are UFA i can see FO bringing back one - its just a matter of which one worth it. 

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1 hour ago, toocoolkellz said:

What are we getting in return? Young players or draft picks,  or both? I'd take Ingram and a first 

I'd love to get Ingram, but I think they keep him.

If may take something like Ball/Kuzma or Hart+1st

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8 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

LOL nah I always liked Gordon more than Parsons.    I just don't want to trade Mike for another guy with a contract his size at his age.    We all know Gordon wouldn't want to be in Memphis too (he wants bright lights).   Plus i am scared to death of guys coming off horrific injuries. 

I want the next guy we pay that much to have earned it in a Grizz uni (Jaren).   Plus i want the capspace to be able to go after Malik or Jaylen.  Gordon's deal runs to 2021-22.   Delon and Jonas deals plus Hayward would kill all our flexibility when we are aiming to be relevant again. 

I agree trading Mike should bring back as little salary as possible. 

I wouldn't mind Hayward if it was in a trade for Parsons. I could see Boston maybe wanting to get off the last year of the Hayward contract to have max money in 2020-2021. This summer would have to go pretty poorly for them to consider that though.  

I think it's possible both Mike and Chandler will still be around until the trade deadline, and Wallace will throw up his hands again and say "nobody would give us what these great players were worth!" when we can't find a trade at the very last minute. 

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2 minutes ago, Holidayinn21 said:

I'd love to get Ingram, but I think they keep him.

If may take something like Ball/Kuzma or Hart+1st

I'm higher on kuzma than Ingram.  If we can get that,  I'm excited 

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The Boston situation is the one I would keep an eye on. Before you can make any decision on how to deal with them, you have to wait for the Kyrie and AD dominoes to fall. If Kyrie is gone, they might be interested in Conley. But I can't see them giving up one of the young guys to do it. I think it would have to be Hayward (I'll come back to him). If AD is traded there, you have to see what is left over first. If AD is traded elsewhere and Kyrie resigns, I think there is an opening. You can either make a play for Hayward with the Parsons contract or hope no one else gives them relief and try to steal Jaylen Brown the following offseason. A resigned Kyrie on a max deal, Hayward on a max deal, Tatum soon to be on a max deal, Horford will probably be less by then but not cheap, may leave them vulnerable to having Brown poached. Brown would be a RFA. If you offer him a max and hope he grows into a bigger role, will Boston match that? I don't know; that's a ton of salary. Is Brown worth that? Again, I don't know but it's a gamble that could pay off.

Gordon Hayward- that's the enigma. Will he ever recover from his injury? He's played much better the last three weeks or so. Is that enough to think he has recovered? Trading for Hayward leads to one of two paths. Either he comes back healthy and you steal an all star level player, like we did with ZBo. Or he's permanently damaged goods and you're paying a ridiculous salary for a useless player, like Parsons. This team has to take gambles to succeed. I am not sure if I could take this one. But I'd understand it if the team did. That being said, I'd feel more comfortable if someone other than Chris Wallace made the decision. If Wallace makes the decision, I'm calling it a failure before we even get going.

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I think the Celts and Lakers situation will be settled right before the draft.     Reason being is that either destination will include 2019 picks.  I can see NOP wanting to actually select who they draft instead of waiting till afterwards.    I also think Demps getting fired  and Magic leaving means there is a much greater chance Lakers get AD. 

   Lebron being out of playoffs isn't good for the NBA so i see him getting some help next season.    AD going to Lakers means that Kyrie bolts from C's.    In this scenario us actually conveying the pick to BOS is perfect.   Because now BOS has 4 first rd picks which should make BOS more eager to get off the picks.    Trading Conley to them would be a win for both of us.   

Maybe a #9,  #21 + Rozier  for Conley?  (mostly trading him into their capspace).   Anyone think thats possible?

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Another Legit Question:

Who would you choose:  Holiday or Dorsey for next 2 years?  

Dorsey is younger and fits in with Jaren's window and offers some ballhandling and passing.      Holiday is better defender (by miles) and more versatile player and better shooter.   Holiday is who he is and is age 30.    Team looks like this so far. 

  • PG: Delon Wright, Jevon Carter
  • SG: Avery Bradley,  CJ Miles
  • SF: Kyle Anderson, Dillon Brooks,
  • PF: Jaren Jackson, Bruno Caboclo, Chandler Parsons
  • C Jonas Valanciunas, Ivan Rabb

Personally, i am starting to lean more towards keeping Justin especially if we keep our pick.    His jumpshot is more dependable and his defense.   He is much better defending guards than forwards but wasn't able to do that due to injuries.    With Conley gone i think we need more actual NBA players on the roster.    Dorsey is a project and would be end of rotation guy at best.   His defense is horrendous and doesn't project to improve.   Jaren, Bruno, Dillon, Kyle, and Pick will be more than enough youth to develop so i won't lose sleep over Dorsey.    I'd rather give his spot to young PG.  

 

I'd say we should bring back both. Dorsey as just a minimum, end of bench guy for depth. Holiday as your backup SG, where I think he has a lot of value. You could get both for 5-6 million a year combined. I guess it will depend on what we get for Conley to an extent.

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27 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

The Boston situation is the one I would keep an eye on. Before you can make any decision on how to deal with them, you have to wait for the Kyrie and AD dominoes to fall. If Kyrie is gone, they might be interested in Conley. But I can't see them giving up one of the young guys to do it. I think it would have to be Hayward (I'll come back to him). If AD is traded there, you have to see what is left over first. If AD is traded elsewhere and Kyrie resigns, I think there is an opening. You can either make a play for Hayward with the Parsons contract or hope no one else gives them relief and try to steal Jaylen Brown the following offseason. A resigned Kyrie on a max deal, Hayward on a max deal, Tatum soon to be on a max deal, Horford will probably be less by then but not cheap, may leave them vulnerable to having Brown poached. Brown would be a RFA. If you offer him a max and hope he grows into a bigger role, will Boston match that? I don't know; that's a ton of salary. Is Brown worth that? Again, I don't know but it's a gamble that could pay off.

Gordon Hayward- that's the enigma. Will he ever recover from his injury? He's played much better the last three weeks or so. Is that enough to think he has recovered? Trading for Hayward leads to one of two paths. Either he comes back healthy and you steal an all star level player, like we did with ZBo. Or he's permanently damaged goods and you're paying a ridiculous salary for a useless player, like Parsons. This team has to take gambles to succeed. I am not sure if I could take this one. But I'd understand it if the team did. That being said, I'd feel more comfortable if someone other than Chris Wallace made the decision. If Wallace makes the decision, I'm calling it a failure before we even get going.

I would take a shot on Hayward. He isnt injury prone. Its just one extra year of salary. If you can get him and your pick back for Conley absolutely. If you can get him for Parsons and Miles hell yeah. Thats a way to fill up your cap when rebuilding. Take a high reward underutilized player and give him all the shots like we did with JV and see what rolls out. Why not nobody is signing here unless its a massive overpay. Also what was the last max level RFA like Jaylen Brown that didnt get match? Teams usually just match these guys and worry later.

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We still haven't even seen Jaren and Jonas play together for any significant stretch.

To me, I'm interested in keeping this core over the summer:

Jonas
Jaren
Slomo
Bruno
Dillon
Delon

Not against these players, but not tied to them either - if they are back, fine, if not, also fine:

Dorsey
Jevon
Zeller
Noah
Miles
Avery
Holiday
Parsons
Rabb
Yuta
 

Obviously you now trade Conley for what you can get.

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55 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

I'd say we should bring back both. Dorsey as just a minimum, end of bench guy for depth. Holiday as your backup SG, where I think he has a lot of value. You could get both for 5-6 million a year combined. I guess it will depend on what we get for Conley to an extent.

I think that's accurate and where all ideas will come from going forward.

Once the return is known on Mike, then decisions get made.

 

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Another Legit Question:

Who would you choose:  Holiday or Dorsey for next 2 years?  

 

 

I would take Holiday.  He plays defense, Dorsey doesn't.  Dorsey is only valuable if he is shooting lights out; if he isn't his defense makes him a net negative.

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13 minutes ago, CarloJ63 said:

I would take Holiday.  He plays defense, Dorsey doesn't.  Dorsey is only valuable if he is shooting lights out; if he isn't his defense makes him a net negative.

Why would a rebuilding team pick a 30 year old over a 23 year old? I don’t understand what you guys are trying to accomplish 

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41 minutes ago, Allen said:

Why would a rebuilding team pick a 30 year old over a 23 year old? I don’t understand what you guys are trying to accomplish 

First, the poster's question said for the next two years. That's an important consideration when deciding which player to keep. If we are looking four or more years out the answer may be different. 

Second, Holiday is in his prime, can guard multiple positions and started to find his shot at the end of the season. Dorsey can't defend any position and never seemed to find a consistent shot. 

Third, assuming the Grizzlies are not conveying the pick this season they don't want to give Boston a high lottery pick in the future. It's only top 6 protected next year and unprotected the year after that. 

I'd personally let them both go however. Holiday is limited at best. Dorsey is a dime a dozen player. 

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48 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

First, the poster's question said for the next two years. That's an important consideration when deciding which player to keep. If we are looking four or more years out the answer may be different. 

Second, Holiday is in his prime, can guard multiple positions and started to find his shot at the end of the season. Dorsey can't defend any position and never seemed to find a consistent shot. 

Third, assuming the Grizzlies are not conveying the pick this season they don't want to give Boston a high lottery pick in the future. It's only top 6 protected next year and unprotected the year after that. 

I'd personally let them both go however. Holiday is limited at best. Dorsey is a dime a dozen player. 

Who cares if Holiday is in his prime? And why are we only worried about the next two years? Yeah let’s rebuild with a bunch of 30 year olds 

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10 minutes ago, Allen said:

Who cares if Holiday is in his prime? And why are we only worried about the next two years? Yeah let’s rebuild with a bunch of 30 year olds 

a million times this.

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14 minutes ago, Allen said:

Who cares if Holiday is in his prime? And why are we only worried about the next two years? Yeah let’s rebuild with a bunch of 30 year olds 

Because as Chip stated we are more than likely in convey mode.     We need actual NBA players on the roster to do that and Holiday has proven that much.      2 years of Holiday isn't going to hurt a rebuild  but it could help the convey next season.   The roster has to filled out and we should be  done with them using GLeague level guys to do it.    Clippers showed the blueprint with having a team full of competent NBA players and a couple of high-level scorers (Gallo and Lou).   They even have 2 promising rookies that can be developed along with them.   We cannot afford to have a roster full of young guys next season if we don't convey.   Mike is gone.  That's why its a relevant question. 

I also believe this is a real discussion the FO is going to have soon.   Which of the expiring guys should be resigned?  I am sure Dorsey and Holiday are an either or deal. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dwash said:

I would take a shot on Hayward. He isnt injury prone. Its just one extra year of salary. If you can get him and your pick back for Conley absolutely. If you can get him for Parsons and Miles hell yeah. Thats a way to fill up your cap when rebuilding. Take a high reward underutilized player and give him all the shots like we did with JV and see what rolls out. Why not nobody is signing here unless its a massive overpay. Also what was the last max level RFA like Jaylen Brown that didnt get match? Teams usually just match these guys and worry later.

I don't know the answer to this. But most of the time, teams with players young enough to be RFA but worthy of the max are teams that aren't very good. The last time I remember a good team, with multiple maxed out players already, having a young stud hitting RFA that they knew they couldn't afford to match was OKC with Harden. They traded him before they lost him.

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31 minutes ago, Allen said:

Who cares if Holiday is in his prime? And why are we only worried about the next two years? Yeah let’s rebuild with a bunch of 30 year olds 

Well if you want to ask the question differently I am sure people will give a different answer. GTF's question is pretty straightforward. I gave what I believe is a rational answer to CarloJ63's answer to GTF's question. 

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Are yall really debating Dorsey or Holiday? They both stink

Its just a question but a logical one.  Seeing as how same FO is in place. 

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5 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Another important Caveat that people aren't taking into account during this forced Rebuild.      Memphis reputation has to be at an All Time Low.      Conley interview shows that he clearly isn't pleased with Organization and will force his way out.    Chandler was at war with Org for majority of season and his tenure.    FO basically ticked off its most beloved franchise players.      Who exactly is going to want to sign with us??   Chandler may be a sucky player but dude is pretty well liked throughout the league.    So is Conley.    These guys all talk so you better believe FA's will only come here on a serious overpay. 

If Pera was any type of owner he would immediately make FO changes.   Just to regain confidence from fanbase and ACTUAL NBA players back in the franchise.   FO reputation is in the bottom of the toilet.  

We really have no choice but to do everything to retain Jonas, Delon, and even Noah.    Just to rebuild the good will of NBA players.   Jaren isn't going to want to stay with a franchise that treated its most decorated players like trash.    Gasol and Marc both left on sour notes while he was here.   That leaves an impression.  

Pera needs to get off his yazz if he cares at all about his "toy" he needs to make a big change. 

That's a lot of BS, all a player would have to do is read what's on this board, the mouthing and complaining about Gasol and Conley would be enough to defer any bad feeling they may have about the Grizz. Just look at how they overpaid MC and MG, people were complaining about the shape Gasol came back in after he signed his big contract.You think Delon is going to get an opportunity to be a starting PG with other teams? Maybe he would sign a 2-3 deal and that might give him a chance for the big money the next time. I'd love to have 8 players like Delon compared to 1 like MC but isn't that about what the money comes up to?

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4 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

How about Dorsey or Carter?  The franchise has shown they've been willing to let guys walk with years remaining. Obviously, if Conley is gone, whatever the replacement is would be a factor.

 

I would rather have Dorsey than Carter, even though Carter has been hot here lately, he was cold for a long time. I thinki Rabb has to go 2 and Washburn.

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36 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Its just a question but a logical one.  Seeing as how same FO is in place. 

Oops

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On 4/10/2019 at 3:35 PM, Memphisyank said:

Just like Gasol I will be sad and wish him well. (Conley) I suspect we will be terrible for a while. 

We will be bad but not Suns Knicks bad

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