billatter

Don't dismiss JV

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as we would be making the same mistake as did the Raptor's brass.

He brings way more to the table than just stats. We've probably all seen his situation at our workplaces. The hardworking, guts of the department, type of guy gets overlooked for promotion time and again in favour of some flashy, loudmouth, self-promoter. JV was treated as an afterthought by Casey and then Nurse demotes him to the bench. Throughout it all, JV never complained. The Raptors are missing him now though they will never admit it.

Some interesting numbers this year: with JV in the line-up the Raptors went 23 and 7 (0.767) and without JV they have gone 26 and 14 (0.650).

Can we attribute 100% of this to the absence of JV? Probably not, but a significant chunk of it we can. JV may not be a great perimeter defender, but he's good under the rim.  He is an intimidating presence on the court and a beast on offence. Before the trade, I had the Raptors as a lock to make the ECF, but now, I doubt they get by the first round.

Enjoy JV Memphis for you really won the trade. Gasol has done squat for the Raptors and I highly doubt he'll improve. JV could be your leader for the next few years so enjoy the ride.

 

 

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1 hour ago, billatter said:

Some interesting numbers this year: ...

You left out his most impressive stat; JV is hitting .817 % of his shots at the rim (0-3') since coming to Memphis. Making your high percentage shots is the most underrated and underutilized part of NBA basketball. JV is killing it at the rim.

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1 minute ago, Father Pat said:

You left out his most impressive stat; JV is hitting .817 % of his shots at the rim (0-3') since coming to Memphis. Making your high percentage shots is the most underrated and underutilized part of NBA basketball. JV is killing it at the rim.

Good point !

He ALSO -> actually has the audacity to ... play IN THE PAINT - as a BIG ! 

who does he think he is ?!? 

🤣💨

I enjoy watching JV mix it up down there . That's that 'tuffness' 

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13 hours ago, billatter said:

JV could be your leader for the next few years so enjoy the ride.

JV is impressive in Memphis. Everybody respects him and likes him. The problem is we don`t need a leader of a mediocre team for the next 4 years, we need to build a contender. In this regard, JV is a nice asset to trade if he opts-in. Nothing beyond that for Memphis.

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How is Memphis dismissing JV anyway? They traded for him. They are obligated to keep him at least one season unless JV decides he wants out (the option is his). It seems to me that Memphis has made it clear they like him and want him to remain.

The question should be does JV want Memphis? 

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JV and JJJ locks down our 4&5 spots with quality, playoff contending bigs. We need a 3 so desperately bad and I’m not sure Kyle is the answer. Maybe AB is the answer at the 2 spot. Maybe Dillon can be the 6th man. The problem is that we cannot stay healthy enough to really see what we have. 

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hace 3 horas, chipc3 dijo:

"How is Memphis dismissing JV anyway? They traded for him. They are obligated to keep him at least one season unless JV decides he wants out (the option is his). It seems to me that Memphis has made it clear they like him and want him to remain.

The question should be does JV want Memphis?" 

I think the post previous to yours provides the answer. If Memphis gives him an honest as a starter, a main piece of the offence, and a role as one of the team's leaders, I'd be confident he will want to stay. He's one of the guys you can build around.

 

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The problem with JV (and it's my only issue with trading for him, since I know and like him since before he came to the NBA) is that his age is not well aligned with JJJ's, and more importantly, with the likely high draft picks we'll get in the next 2-3 years. He's not likely to be around or play at a top level by the time the new guys grow up into the elite players we need them to be to contend.

That doesn't mean we have to drop him like a hot potato at the first chance. He can absolutely be a core part of the team in the transition period and he has the right skills and personal traits to help with the young guys' growth process, but we need to be careful not to tie a lot of long term money if we renew him after his current contract. We don't want to get to the point when we have to max a budding superstar or two and find out we have half of our cap tied in legacy contracts (and end like the Thunder when they traded Harden).

It would be a different situation if we had received one or two good players on rookie contracts in this season's trades, as that might have accelerated our next window of contention and align it with JV's prime. Sadly, we didn't and here we are.

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Am wondering how the GnG Grizzlies would've been if we had JV instead of Gasol.

Mike

TA

Gay

Randolph

JV

 

ohh wee

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On 3/19/2019 at 9:42 AM, chipc3 said:

How is Memphis dismissing JV anyway? They traded for him. They are obligated to keep him at least one season unless JV decides he wants out (the option is his). It seems to me that Memphis has made it clear they like him and want him to remain.

The question should be does JV want Memphis? 

Can only hope he likes it here. 

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To quote famous Redskins coach George Allen, as he traded away draft picks for players and said, "the future is now", and they were pretty successful..full rebuilds are failures more often than not...the mindset needs to be make smart picks in the draft...the priorities are MC protege and or 3 point shooter...resign JV to long term...crap he's 26 and were saying he is not part of the future?  If we can't resign him in off-season, then trade him...he will then have shown his cards and likely will leave or play out option.  There showing a lot without JJJ in the lineup, they will be a better team up front with him working in with JV rotation.  And the goal in 2019/20 is to make playoffs...partial rebuild is 2-3 years.....full rebuild tear down, i dunno but it sounds more like 3-5 years to be competitive and then you need to get to the elite team level....SO NO FULL REBUILD....

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33 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

To quote famous Redskins coach George Allen, as he traded away draft picks for players and said, "the future is now", and they were pretty successful..full rebuilds are failures more often than not...the mindset needs to be make smart picks in the draft...the priorities are MC protege and or 3 point shooter...resign JV to long term...crap he's 26 and were saying he is not part of the future?  If we can't resign him in off-season, then trade him...he will then have shown his cards and likely will leave or play out option.  There showing a lot without JJJ in the lineup, they will be a better team up front with him working in with JV rotation.  And the goal in 2019/20 is to make playoffs...partial rebuild is 2-3 years.....full rebuild tear down, i dunno but it sounds more like 3-5 years to be competitive and then you need to get to the elite team level....SO NO FULL REBUILD....

My guess is if the pick does not convey to Boston this year that we will try to be good enough to convey next year. The team does not want the obligation rolling over into the 2021 draft. If the pick does convey, they may do the full rebuild.

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In my opinion the problem with a total rebuild is you have to get very lucky in the draft. You can be the worst team in the league year after year and never get a top draft pick. The Grizzlies best picks have been the second pick and they were squandered. Despite the poor drafting the franchise turned things around and built a quality team for many years. 

How often has the worst team in the league been rewarded with the #1 pick? The Grizzlies picked 4th after achieving the worst record last season. Fourth picks don't often turn franchises around like #1 picks. 

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35 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

My guess is if the pick does not convey to Boston this year that we will try to be good enough to convey next year. The team does not want the obligation rolling over into the 2021 draft. If the pick does convey, they may do the full rebuild.

Conley is averaging 25.7 points on 48.4% shooting since the break. JV, we know what he is doing. The original goal was to convey to rebuild but since the team doesnt look as depressing anymore I would not be surprised if they bring the same team back even if they convey the pick.  They will try to find a distressed "scorer" who isnt favored (like a Jabari Parker) and go from there.  Another weak playoff push. This isnt what I want at all but I see it coming.

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

In my opinion the problem with a total rebuild is you have to get very lucky in the draft. You can be the worst team in the league year after year and never get a top draft pick. The Grizzlies best picks have been the second pick and they were squandered. Despite the poor drafting the franchise turned things around and built a quality team for many years. 

How often has the worst team in the league been rewarded with the #1 pick? The Grizzlies picked 4th after achieving the worst record last season. Fourth picks don't often turn franchises around like #1 picks. 

The rebuild isnt all about the #1 pick though. Its about making a commitment to get lots of picks/young players.  Its about playing young guys that might not play for teams trying to compete. Example, Will Barton looked sad (a scrub as folks here would say) playing for Portland as they pushed for the playoffs but he went to Denver where they had unlimited minutes and he became something.

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22 minutes ago, Dwash said:

The rebuild isnt all about the #1 pick though. Its about making a commitment to get lots of picks/young players.  Its about playing young guys that might not play for teams trying to compete. Example, Will Barton looked sad (a scrub as folks here would say) playing for Portland as they pushed for the playoffs but he went to Denver where they had unlimited minutes and he became something.

I think it's more playing developing program than that. What you said works if your organization sucks, yeah, but really good teams are able to develop talents even when they're competing, most recent examples being Spurs and Raptors, both programs have developed quality players with second-round drafting.

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23 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Conley is averaging 25.7 points on 48.4% shooting since the break. JV, we know what he is doing. The original goal was to convey to rebuild but since the team doesnt look as depressing anymore I would not be surprised if they bring the same team back even if they convey the pick.  They will try to find a distressed "scorer" who isnt favored (like a Jabari Parker) and go from there.  Another weak playoff push. This isnt what I want at all but I see it coming.

Truth of the matter is that if a team has 2 true scorers and decent role players then playoffs is a realistic goal.   It takes more than that to be a contender but playoff contention recipe is really just that.  

Especially if the 2 scorers are an Inside - Out tandem.   Add Jaren and another consistent perimeter threat (Avery or Dillon) and the team is at least .500 squad.      The ghost of Parsons and BOS Avery shows us how effective Mike can be when defenses can't cheat on him.     Imagine if Mike's wingman wasn't undersized or actually had knees.   22ppg + avg wouldn't be out of the question for Mike. 

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20 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

I think it's more playing developing program than that. What you said works if your organization sucks, yeah, but really good teams are able to develop talents even when they're competing, most recent examples being Spurs and Raptors, both programs have developed quality players with second-round drafting.

Its some about the organization, some about the style of players you have. If you have or are lead by ball dominant players for example, it maybe a lot harder to develop in a system that is obviously gonna be tailored for your stars. On a bad team you are working from scratch so there isnt as much need to fit with the superstars and their play style.

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Once we have Jackson back in the starting 5, along with either Brooks or a draft pick at SF, we will be fine. We have to develop our players!

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On 3/19/2019 at 1:42 PM, chipc3 said:

How is Memphis dismissing JV anyway? They traded for him. They are obligated to keep him at least one season unless JV decides he wants out (the option is his). It seems to me that Memphis has made it clear they like him and want him to remain.

The question should be does JV want Memphis? 

Yes, he does.Will stay in Memphis unless something crazy happens.

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On 3/21/2019 at 12:23 PM, I❤️JV said:

Yes, he does.Will stay in Memphis unless something crazy happens.

Memphis has given JV the freedom and minutes to play his game. My gut says he opts in next year. I keep thinking back to that interview of 3-4 weeks ago when JV said he was house shopping in Memphis. Not something you would be doing if you were planning to leave.

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Jonas is like any NBA player: he wants to compete and have a shot at a title.  He is just hitting his prime NOW and has a three-to-four year window at the top of his game!  This off-season, if a contender were to offer him a reasonable contract--not the best contract, just reasonable--I think he would prefer a contender to a lead role on an upstart rebuilt team. 

That being said, he was on a contender just a few short weeks ago and, in spite of his positive exterior, I don't think he was happy in Toronto.  At least not for the past 6 seasons.  The beginning of this year was possibly fine with him and Nick Nurse really found a way to get most out of his offensive monster in short minutes.  The window to play with the starters was also wide open both in terms of match-ups and using his own effort to straight-up outplay fellow center Ibaka. 

Would Jonas want to go back to Toronto having tasted was it feels like to be a one-or-two option?  I would say 'No'.  He seems to be having a lot more fun here in Memphis.

Are there other contenders out there that have a meaningful spot for an offensive brute and rebounding monster?  Did JV change his reputation as an overall negative due to his defensive limitations with his play in the last several months and back-to-back career best performances in points, rebounds?  Did he show that he can sustain the efficiency playing minutes in the thirties?  I honestly don't know.

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On 3/20/2019 at 4:56 AM, fanboyslim said:

The problem with JV (and it's my only issue with trading for him, since I know and like him since before he came to the NBA) is that his age is not well aligned with JJJ's, and more importantly, with the likely high draft picks we'll get in the next 2-3 years. He's not likely to be around or play at a top level by the time the new guys grow up into the elite players we need them to be to contend.

That doesn't mean we have to drop him like a hot potato at the first chance. He can absolutely be a core part of the team in the transition period and he has the right skills and personal traits to help with the young guys' growth process, but we need to be careful not to tie a lot of long term money if we renew him after his current contract. We don't want to get to the point when we have to max a budding superstar or two and find out we have half of our cap tied in legacy contracts (and end like the Thunder when they traded Harden).

It would be a different situation if we had received one or two good players on rookie contracts in this season's trades, as that might have accelerated our next window of contention and align it with JV's prime. Sadly, we didn't and here we are.

Abdul-Jabbar's age wasn't really well aligned with Magic or James Worthy's either.  Didn't stop them from winning some rings together.  I don't think it's that important.

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On 3/23/2019 at 4:28 PM, Karas said:

Jonas is like any NBA player: he wants to compete and have a shot at a title.  He is just hitting his prime NOW and has a three-to-four year window at the top of his game!  This off-season, if a contender were to offer him a reasonable contract--not the best contract, just reasonable--I think he would prefer a contender to a lead role on an upstart rebuilt team. 

That being said, he was on a contender just a few short weeks ago and, in spite of his positive exterior, I don't think he was happy in Toronto.  At least not for the past 6 seasons.  The beginning of this year was possibly fine with him and Nick Nurse really found a way to get most out of his offensive monster in short minutes.  The window to play with the starters was also wide open both in terms of match-ups and using his own effort to straight-up outplay fellow center Ibaka. 

Would Jonas want to go back to Toronto having tasted was it feels like to be a one-or-two option?  I would say 'No'.  He seems to be having a lot more fun here in Memphis.

Are there other contenders out there that have a meaningful spot for an offensive brute and rebounding monster?  Did JV change his reputation as an overall negative due to his defensive limitations with his play in the last several months and back-to-back career best performances in points, rebounds?  Did he show that he can sustain the efficiency playing minutes in the thirties?  I honestly don't know.

I think people get scared of how much he has been hurt. I would overlook it. Dude is crazy good. 

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48 minutes ago, grizzgolf said:

I think people get scared of how much he has been hurt. I would overlook it. Dude is crazy good. 

To be honest he wasn't even hurt that much - and this season's injury, for example, wasn't in any way related to his personal proneness to injury - anybody would miss time after Draymond almost ripping their thumb off.

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