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Don't dismiss JV

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12 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Abdul-Jabbar's age wasn't really well aligned with Magic or James Worthy's either.  Didn't stop them from winning some rings together.  I don't think it's that important.

Come on, Smit, you're not seriously comparing JV with Abdul-Jabbar, are you? Jabbar played at elite level into his late 30s and was a top 3 all time great. JV's production will most likely age like Marc's.

And again, that doesn't mean we can't keep JV for the ride. Let's just not marry him.

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On 3/19/2019 at 8:42 AM, chipc3 said:

How is Memphis dismissing JV anyway? They traded for him. They are obligated to keep him at least one season unless JV decides he wants out (the option is his). It seems to me that Memphis has made it clear they like him and want him to remain.

The question should be does JV want Memphis? 

Exactly! 

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On 3/19/2019 at 8:00 AM, russian grizzly said:

JV is impressive in Memphis. Everybody respects him and likes him. The problem is we don`t need a leader of a mediocre team for the next 4 years, we need to build a contender. In this regard, JV is a nice asset to trade if he opts-in. Nothing beyond that for Memphis.

Well you do have to get in the playoffs before you can contend ijs 🤔

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36 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Come on, Smit, you're not seriously comparing JV with Abdul-Jabbar, are you? Jabbar played at elite level into his late 30s and was a top 3 all time great. JV's production will most likely age like Marc's.

And again, that doesn't mean we can't keep JV for the ride. Let's just not marry him.

No team has ever won a title by primarily doing what you think the grizzlies should do.

The spurs drafted duncan, and kept a 32 year old david robinson around for 5 years after that.

This whole aligning everything to match with a player who we don't even know is a superstar is a receipt for being a perennial lottery team. And I'm not talking 5 years either, I'm talking 20 years.

This is a dumb strategy and it always will be a dumb strategy and that's why no team does it.  

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

No team has ever won a title by primarily doing what you think the grizzlies should do.

The spurs drafted duncan, and kept a 32 year old david robinson around for 5 years after that.

This whole aligning everything to match with a player who we don't even know is a superstar is a receipt for being a perennial lottery team. And I'm not talking 5 years either, I'm talking 20 years.

This is a dumb strategy and it always will be a dumb strategy and that's why no team does it.  

Good, because that's not what I'm proposing. Read again what I'm actually saying.

Besides, the really dumb strategy is to waste picks for 10+ years so you end up with a core whose wheels are going to fall off within 3-4 years of each other and no promising young players read to take over. Following this strategy is what has put the team in a position in which we are forced to hope that a 19 year old or whoever we pick in the next 2-3 drafts will become a superstar. Because hoping that anyone else we have in this roster becomes one is not exactly a winning strategy either.

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2 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Good, because that's not what I'm proposing. Read again what I'm actually saying.

Besides, the really dumb strategy is to waste picks for 10+ years so you end up with a core whose wheels are going to fall off within 3-4 years of each other and no promising young players read to take over. Following this strategy is what has put the team in a position in which we are forced to hope that a 19 year old or whoever we pick in the next 2-3 drafts will become a superstar. Because hoping that anyone else we have in this roster becomes one is not exactly a winning strategy either.

We can't go back and undo the previous drafts but I am encouraged about the Grizzlies drafting success in the last two drafts. Coincidently, Chris Makris took over the draft research process two years ago. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

We can't go back and undo the previous drafts but I am encouraged about the Grizzlies drafting success in the last two drafts. Coincidently, Chris Makris took over the draft research process two years ago. 

Absolutely, better late than never. Unfortunately it's going to take us years to overcome the existing damage. It's a pity that we couldn't get anyone under a rookie contract other than Dorsey in the recent trades.

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44 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

We can't go back and undo the previous drafts but I am encouraged about the Grizzlies drafting success in the last two drafts. Coincidently, Chris Makris took over the draft research process two years ago. 

So now, along with chris wallace, hollinger is a figurehead as well. lol I don't know what your sources are for this, but you shouldn't be promoting thinks without solid facts

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6 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

So now, along with chris wallace, hollinger is a figurehead as well. lol I don't know what your sources are for this, but you shouldn't be promoting thinks without solid facts

I am just telling you what I have been told and what has been repeated on local media sites for a while. If you don't want to believe it that is your right. I can't tell you what to believe. Understand that this is what I have been told and I am in no way suggesting anyone has to believe it. 

I just prefer to tell the fans what I hear rather than keep it to myself and then proclaim I knew it after the fact. If it turns out I am wrong I will apologized but I haven't had to apologize too often. 

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49 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Good, because that's not what I'm proposing. Read again what I'm actually saying.

Besides, the really dumb strategy is to waste picks for 10+ years so you end up with a core whose wheels are going to fall off within 3-4 years of each other and no promising young players read to take over. Following this strategy is what has put the team in a position in which we are forced to hope that a 19 year old or whoever we pick in the next 2-3 drafts will become a superstar. Because hoping that anyone else we have in this roster becomes one is not exactly a winning strategy either.

The grizzlies have been one of the most successful franchises in small-market history, and especially over the last 10 years. And by the way, there are plenty of teams that have superstars that have been less successful than the grizzlies (New Orleans, for example), the clippers (chris paul), the twolves(KG), the haws (Nique Wilkins) to name a few.

Again, the grizzlies made one horrible draft: with Thabeet, instead of Harden or Curry. But plenty of teams have done that.

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It’s not known if JV current bruzzer game is sustainable for the whole season at 30 minutes a game. We don’t know how it would fair in the playoffs.  It’s unlikely that this style would age well when Jonas passes 30.  On the other hand, all of his career Jonas has been adjusting and reinventing himself with great success. In addition to the goods he has, he has a proven record of adding new assets to his game. I’ve even seen him evolve since he came over to the Grizz side. Never in his career has he been so quick on midrange jumpers. He’s actually taken an actual jumper with elevation last game. Before they were mostly flat-footed standing foul shots.  His midrange percentages are really good. Given his height he should capitalize on those types of shots even more in 4-5 years when the power and endurance will level off.  And, of course, he was 40% on threes last season. All he needs in that area is confidence—unleash them without shame every time he’s wide open beyond the line which happens a lot. 

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3 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Come on, Smit, you're not seriously comparing JV with Abdul-Jabbar, are you? Jabbar played at elite level into his late 30s and was a top 3 all time great. JV's production will most likely age like Marc's.

And again, that doesn't mean we can't keep JV for the ride. Let's just not marry him.

Are you suggesting that everyone falls off a cliff after age 30?  I see no reason why it would be bad to resign Jonas for another four years or so as long as the contract is reasonable.  He's not yet 27.  I'm not saying to resign him until he hits Vince Carter territory.

Edit:  Of course all of this depends on how well he fits with the other players and team direction.

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7 minutes ago, Karas said:

 Never in his career has he been so quick on midrange jumpers. He’s actually taken an actual jumper with elevation last game. 

I literally jumped out of my coach when I saw it

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49 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The grizzlies have been one of the most successful franchises in small-market history, and especially over the last 10 years. And by the way, there are plenty of teams that have superstars that have been less successful than the grizzlies (New Orleans, for example), the clippers (chris paul), the twolves(KG), the haws (Nique Wilkins) to name a few.

Again, the grizzlies made one horrible draft: with Thabeet, instead of Harden or Curry. But plenty of teams have done that.

Yes, we have been successful on the court, I'm not one of those that say you can't be successful if you don't win championships. Making the playofs consistently, building a team culture and strengthening the ties with the city are also important.

But you can't seriously tell me that the franchise has been successful in building for the future. It's not just Thabeet, we've missed on every single 1st round pick between Conley and JJJ, and that's on the picks we didn't give away like candy.

You can make mistakes in the draft, every team does, but you can't sustain success without getting younger players with the potential to replace your aging stars and stay for a long period of time. The best way to get and keep young players is either through the draft or by trading for them while on rookie contracts. We've failed miserably at that.

But hey, I'll be the first to cheer if we manage to turn around this team in a year or two. I'm just pessimistic.

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51 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Are you suggesting that everyone falls off a cliff after age 30?  I see no reason why it would be bad to resign Jonas for another four years or so as long as the contract is reasonable.  He's not yet 27.  I'm not saying to resign him until he hits Vince Carter territory.

Edit:  Of course all of this depends on how well he fits with the other players and team direction.

I'm literally saying that!! I'm not sure why you're arguing with me!

My concern (my only concern, as I said in my original post) is that by the time JJJ and our next couple of high picks start showing what they can be JV will be more than 30 and in search of a new contract. It is what it is.

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4 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Yes, we have been successful on the court, I'm not one of those that say you can't be successful if you don't win championships. Making the playofs consistently, building a team culture and strengthening the ties with the city are also important.

But you can't seriously tell me that the franchise has been successful in building for the future. It's not just Thabeet, we've missed on every single 1st round pick between Conley and JJJ, and that's on the picks we didn't give away like candy.

You can make mistakes in the draft, every team does, but you can't sustain success without getting younger players with the potential to replace your aging stars and stay for a long period of time. The best way to get and keep young players is either through the draft or by trading for them while on rookie contracts. We've failed miserably at that.

But hey, I'll be the first to cheer if we manage to turn around this team in a year or two. I'm just pessimistic.

You can't build for the future and go for a championship all the same time. The hasheem thabeet draft pick was the last significant pick that we had before we got good and that's why that one was a big misstep.

Of course the grizzlies never made their lower draft picks pan out but that is a crap shoot anyway.

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6 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

I'm literally saying that!! I'm not sure why you're arguing with me!

My concern (my only concern, as I said in my original post) is that by the time JJJ and our next couple of high picks start showing what they can be JV will be more than 30 and in search of a new contract. It is what it is.

I still don't understand why he couldn't be here the next several seasons unless you are proposing that we tank hard.

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2 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I still don't understand why he couldn't be here the next several seasons unless you are proposing that we tank hard.

I'm pretty sure that he doesn't want to commit to any player until the grizzlies have a superstar. Which I've never heard of any team using that strategy to build a team

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4 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Come on, Smit, you're not seriously comparing JV with Abdul-Jabbar, are you? Jabbar played at elite level into his late 30s and was a top 3 all time great. JV's production will most likely age like Marc's.

And again, that doesn't mean we can't keep JV for the ride. Let's just not marry him.

I would ride him for as long as I could

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34 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I'm pretty sure that he doesn't want to commit to any player until the grizzlies have a superstar. Which I've never heard of any team using that strategy to build a team

It's what Philly has tried to do with "the process". They spent years tanking to try and get young stars. And yeah, they have Embiid and Simmons, but I don't think either guy is a top 5 player, maybe not even top 10. They also have no other assets anymore because they used the ones they had to get Harris and Butler, who could both be gone for next year.

Basically, they think they have their stars and are hoping that they can build a team in free agency this summer with something like re-signing Butler and bringing in one more big free agent. They would still lack depth and assets.

Anyway, it's what most teams that "tank" are trying to do, but most of them just end up spinning their wheels as bad teams because superstars are rare and it isn't easy to add the right talent to a young core if you suck...you'll lack trade assets, and won't be an attractive free agent destination (especially in a smaller market). So most try to start bringing in guys before it's clear if they have a young superstar...Think of the Minnesota, Orlando or Sacramento type teams. 

As it stands for Memphis now, in my opinion the best-case scenario would be something like getting lucky and hitting a home run for a wing player in the draft (whether that's moving up to get a guy like Barrett or just nailing a pick in the 6-8 range), convincing Conley to stay, JV opting in or signing a new extension, and bringing most of the gang back, including Delon and Bradley. I mean, the current group would be a SF away from having a good starting lineup, and if healthy, would have guys like Delon, Anderson, Miles, Brooks, Dorsey and Noah off the bench. 

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2 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

I give up.

 

quitter

🤣💨

 

Shirley you can bang your head against the brick wall a little harder a few more times 

 

pull yourself together and get back in there ! 

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9 hours ago, evilution said:

To be honest he wasn't even hurt that much - and this season's injury, for example, wasn't in any way related to his personal proneness to injury - anybody would miss time after Draymond almost ripping their thumb off.

Agreed, I don't think JV is injury prone at all.  Outside of two wild hand fractures after Kobe/Draymond wild hacks, he's been quite healthy.

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4 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I'm literally saying that!! I'm not sure why you're arguing with me!

My concern (my only concern, as I said in my original post) is that by the time JJJ and our next couple of high picks start showing what they can be JV will be more than 30 and in search of a new contract. It is what it is.

The danger in that is if Conley is gone, JV leaves this summer or next, and Memphis doesn't get a good pick this year, they'll have JJJ and not much of anything else. Memphis has been on a downward trend in performance and attendance, and is one of the smallest and poorest markets in the league. If you do a long rebuild, the risk is that the team may not be in Memphis by the time they turn it around. 

Now if you end up not having a choice (ie. Grizz convey, JV opts out and leaves, and Conley firmly demands he be traded), so be it. Way I see it, before deciding on the proper course, the team has to see if JV wants to stay and if they'll keep their pick. 

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