GrizzTigerFan

If we convey should we ReTool or ReBuild?

ReTool or ReBuild?  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. ReTool or ReBuild? Which Direction should we take?

    • Keep all major pieces this summer and aim for playoffs
      17
    • Flip all tradeable assets and start the full rebuild
      12


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7 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

Earlier on before the trade I was in the blow it up section,  but I think with the trades we've gotten better and can be a solid team.  I know being "solid," isn't as appealing to some but I'm sure solid is better than being terrible. The biggest issue though is how do you improve a solid team in a less appealing market? You have to draft, which isnt as easy with a solid team or buy one,  and this whole Parsons fiasco put a horrible taste in my mouth. I sure hope we don't make the same mistake twice when his salary clears,  and on too of that how does Dillon and slowmo fit into this? It seems dillon has some value so maybe if necessary we could flip him 

If we don't have a draft pick then Dillon and SloMo slot in pretty easily.  

Kyle is a superior option at SF over Holiday Miles because of the makeup of the Starting lineup. 

Mike + Avery + Kyle + JJJ + JV.    That is 4 guys that can score and need touches to be effective.   A versatile top notch defender like SloMo is the glue that binds them together.    He adds more playmaking and defense to that unit while JJJ ability to shoot 3s keeps the paint spaced for AB, Conley, and Jonas.   

Delon + Dillon + CJ + Rabb + Noah is balanced as well because you have 2 playmakers in Noah and Delon and interior scorer in Rabb and 2 floor spacers in Dillon and CJ.    No unproductive players have to be in your top 10 rotation because Holiday is gone and hopefully Parsons is waived. 

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6 hours ago, tjazz22 said:

How would you know if you are picking these type guys? They thought they were getting superstars when they picked them too.

Exactly!  There is no exact science to this.  Heck even Zion is an unknown because i still extremely leary he can be this effective longterm carrying that type of weight. 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

I think once Conley falls off/traded they will be terrible. He is 32 now and it happened fast for a guy like Tony Parker.

If they keep Conley  thru next season and acclimate all the new guys into a system that maximizes them.  It's possible to remain competitive once he goes.     The hope is that Jaren and another young guy take a leap next season (maybe Dillon) which should soften the blow of Mike leaving.   

But the possibility of that is why i always wanted to keep the pick and draft a dynamic scorer.     My biggest hope if they convey is that somehow we can turn Parsons + whoever into a first rd pick this season and draft a Coby White or Kevin Porter Jr.    Those are the two guys i see falling out of lottery that have true scoring potential. 

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4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If they keep Conley  thru next season and acclimate all the new guys into a system that maximizes them.  It's possible to remain competitive once he goes.     The hope is that Jaren and another young guy take a leap next season (maybe Dillon) which should soften the blow of Mike leaving.   

But the possibility of that is why i always wanted to keep the pick and draft a dynamic scorer.     My biggest hope if they convey is that somehow we can turn Parsons + whoever into a first rd pick this season and draft a Coby White or Kevin Porter Jr.    Those are the two guys i see falling out of lottery that have true scoring potential. 

Having a big time backcourt scorer/playmaker is the only way to compete in today's game.

Kevin Porter is another example of what Im talking about when you cant draft the top prospects then reach for a "star" after that. How you can see this stuff early on but ignore the signs. Yes he has talent, however, I dont trust a guy who constantly has "conduct issues" to get millions put in his hand and consistently put in the work to be a great and be a good teammate.

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6 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Having a big time backcourt scorer/playmaker is the only way to compete in today's game.

Kevin Porter is another example of what Im talking about when you cant draft the top prospects then reach for a "star" after that. How you can see this stuff early on but ignore the signs. Yes he has talent, however, I dont trust a guy who constantly has "conduct issues" to get millions put in his hand and consistently put in the work to be a great and be a good teammate.

Yea i totally understand why anyone would be hesitant about adding him.   And adding him I would certainly want to keep Conley and Noah around to keep a dude like him in line. 

I agree that a dynamic playmaker is a MUST for any team that wants to complete.   Which is why i have started looking at Coby White too.  

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13 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Having a big time backcourt scorer/playmaker is the only way to compete in today's game.

Kevin Porter is another example of what Im talking about when you cant draft the top prospects then reach for a "star" after that. How you can see this stuff early on but ignore the signs. Yes he has talent, however, I dont trust a guy who constantly has "conduct issues" to get millions put in his hand and consistently put in the work to be a great and be a good teammate.

Haven't that always been the case? However, I don't think anybody in Milwaukee's backcourt would be considered, "Big Time" what about Toronto's backcourt with an about to be 33 year old Kyle Lowry.

My position is this, back when Golden State was making its run 5 or 6 years ago, nobody ever thought about playing like the warriors played, or that even Steph Curry could be a superstar in the league. It's one of the reasons he is not with Nike.

These days and times, there are at least a dozen or more guys that are doing what curry does as good or better than him. It's not as novel anymore. Not to mention the fact that defenses have caught up to Golden State and that's one of the reasons that KD was so important to the warriors, because even the warriors themselves can't play that style effectively anymore.

Big men are actually coming back in a big way and in the next few years you are going to see it. Size again matters, more than anything, is my position on it.

The whole backcourt 3 pointer thing is largely over. Stop living in the past.

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19 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Haven't that always been the case? However, I don't think anybody in Milwaukee's backcourt would be considered, "Big Time" what about Toronto's backcourt with an about to be 33 year old Kyle Lowry.

My position is this, back when Golden State was making its run 5 or 6 years ago, nobody ever thought about playing like the warriors played, or that even Steph Curry could be a superstar in the league. It's one of the reasons he is not with Nike.

These days and times, there are at least a dozen or more guys that are doing what curry does as good or better than him. It's not as novel anymore. Not to mention the fact that defenses have caught up to Golden State and that's one of the reasons that KD was so important to the warriors, because even the warriors themselves can't play that style effectively anymore.

Big men are actually coming back in a big way and in the next few years you are going to see it. Size again matters, more than anything, is my position on it.

The whole backcourt 3 pointer thing is largely over. Stop living in the past.

By all means, please name the “dozen or so guys” doing what Curry does better than him. I’d like to see just exactly what your brain is thinking here. 

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It feels to me like trying to build around the guys we have on the squad now is repeating mistakes we have already lived through.  I don't mean to just trade everyone willy nilly and grab late round draft picks....   My thought is more of an overall strategy. 

Determine who you are.  Can you succeed as you are?  If not...determine who you WILL be that can succeed.  Commit to a plan and not just grab at any shiny object that takes your fancy this week.  This turning over the roster 3 or 4 times in a couple of years seems to indicate we have no plan and as such have not ability to commit to a path that will lead to success.

It all starts at the top.

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46 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yea i totally understand why anyone would be hesitant about adding him.   And adding him I would certainly want to keep Conley and Noah around to keep a dude like him in line. 

I agree that a dynamic playmaker is a MUST for any team that wants to complete.   Which is why i have started looking at Coby White too.  

I could see them keeping Conley. From the beginning I kinda thought putting Conley and Gasol on the block was a face move and that Gasol was really the one they were shopping or expecting to trade. Conley had to bring back a really sweet package that they didnt expect.

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15 minutes ago, Gradey said:

It feels to me like trying to build around the guys we have on the squad now is repeating mistakes we have already lived through.  I don't mean to just trade everyone willy nilly and grab late round draft picks....   My thought is more of an overall strategy. 

Determine who you are.  Can you succeed as you are?  If not...determine who you WILL be that can succeed.  Commit to a plan and not just grab at any shiny object that takes your fancy this week.  This turning over the roster 3 or 4 times in a couple of years seems to indicate we have no plan and as such have not ability to commit to a path that will lead to success.

It all starts at the top.

Great points.   Another reason why it wouldn't be smart PR-wise to immediately trade some of the new fan favs.   They are already putting up posters and changed the marketing to feature Jaren.   The next moves need to at least appear to be in sync with building around Jaren.  

If the plan is to be a playoff team next year - Say it.  If the plan is to go into a full rebuild then announce you have another 3yr plan.  Like you said,  Commit to it. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I could see them keeping Conley. From the beginning I kinda thought putting Conley and Gasol on the block was a face move and that Gasol was really the one they were shopping or expecting to trade. Conley had to bring back a really sweet package that they didnt expect.

 I thought that too.   It wasn't until Conley looked genuinely dejected by the entire thing did i start to think he may be moved this summer (at his request).   Then looking over the potential crazy moves on the horizon i could see us actually getting great return.    This summer i think they will have to make a hard decision because i can see teams upping the anty for him. 

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I wouldn't be surprised if Conley asks to stay if they keep the new guys.  Because for first time in his career he will be the unquestioned lead dog and featured player.    Getting that Western Conf player of the week may have changed his position on being able to be an AllStar in the West. 

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If we don't have a draft pick then Dillon and SloMo slot in pretty easily.  

Kyle is a superior option at SF over Holiday Miles because of the makeup of the Starting lineup. 

Mike + Avery + Kyle + JJJ + JV.    That is 4 guys that can score and need touches to be effective.   A versatile top notch defender like SloMo is the glue that binds them together.    He adds more playmaking and defense to that unit while JJJ ability to shoot 3s keeps the paint spaced for AB, Conley, and Jonas.   

Delon + Dillon + CJ + Rabb + Noah is balanced as well because you have 2 playmakers in Noah and Delon and interior scorer in Rabb and 2 floor spacers in Dillon and CJ.    No unproductive players have to be in your top 10 rotation because Holiday is gone and hopefully Parsons is waived. 

That looks pretty good to me but I don't know if they will kick Holiday out of the rotation being that he is a starter right now.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Haven't that always been the case? However, I don't think anybody in Milwaukee's backcourt would be considered, "Big Time" what about Toronto's backcourt with an about to be 33 year old Kyle Lowry.

My position is this, back when Golden State was making its run 5 or 6 years ago, nobody ever thought about playing like the warriors played, or that even Steph Curry could be a superstar in the league. It's one of the reasons he is not with Nike.

These days and times, there are at least a dozen or more guys that are doing what curry does as good or better than him. It's not as novel anymore. Not to mention the fact that defenses have caught up to Golden State and that's one of the reasons that KD was so important to the warriors, because even the warriors themselves can't play that style effectively anymore.

Big men are actually coming back in a big way and in the next few years you are going to see it. Size again matters, more than anything, is my position on it.

The whole backcourt 3 pointer thing is largely over. Stop living in the past.

When has Durant ever went away since he has been in the league? There's just not a whole lot of guys like him around.

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7 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

That looks pretty good to me but I don't know if they will kick Holiday out of the rotation being that he is a starter right now.

Holiday will have to be resigned in order to keep him.  He is on an expiring.  There won't be enough money to bring back Avery, Jonas, Delon AND Holiday.    Would you sacrifice any of those younger players to keep Holiday?

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32 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Conley asks to stay if they keep the new guys.  Because for first time in his career he will be the unquestioned lead dog and featured player.    Getting that Western Conf player of the week may have changed his position on being able to be an AllStar in the West. 

I don't think he necessarily will be the lead dog when you have Jonas putting up 20 in less that 10 shots, he should be getting at least 15 shots.

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12 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

When has Durant ever went away since he has been in the league? There's just not a whole lot of guys like him around.

I was taking primarily about low post bigs, not dead-eye athletic-freaks like durant 

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12 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Holiday will have to be resigned in order to keep him.  He is on an expiring.  There won't be enough money to bring back Avery, Jonas, Delon AND Holiday.    Would you sacrifice any of those younger players to keep Holiday?

I would not resign Holiday unless it was real close to the minimum.

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I was talking to Guinness about stretching Parsons and he said the Grizz could bring everyone back without doing that. It seems like he somehow or another had a change of heart after the Grizz beat the Magic. Maybe he has become of the opinion that this team may be better than he thought they would be. I thought that JV and CW would be good for the Grizz but I hadn't seen Miles play much but he has been a heck of a surprise to me considering how everyone was talking about how bad he was. He shoots some deep 3 and cans them.

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1 minute ago, MemphisX said:

I would not resign Holiday unless it was real close to the minimum.

I wouldn't sign him for a lot, but at the same time, I also would not want to let him go, since what would he be preventing the grizzlies from doing?

Then again, I would not want to give him any of the mid-level exception, either. 

I'm also kinda glad that CJ has a player's option, because I like him on the team as well.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If we don't have a draft pick then Dillon and SloMo slot in pretty easily.  

Kyle is a superior option at SF over Holiday Miles because of the makeup of the Starting lineup. 

Mike + Avery + Kyle + JJJ + JV.    That is 4 guys that can score and need touches to be effective.   A versatile top notch defender like SloMo is the glue that binds them together.    He adds more playmaking and defense to that unit while JJJ ability to shoot 3s keeps the paint spaced for AB, Conley, and Jonas.   

Delon + Dillon + CJ + Rabb + Noah is balanced as well because you have 2 playmakers in Noah and Delon and interior scorer in Rabb and 2 floor spacers in Dillon and CJ.    No unproductive players have to be in your top 10 rotation because Holiday is gone and hopefully Parsons is waived. 

This is the problem.  I don't want to turn Jaren into a guy floating at the 3pt line all the time.  I want the ball in his hands more.  Not just as a finisher but as a creator also.  This also just jumps back into all the problems we have had with no shooting.  JV and Kyle are non-shooters.  That can be alleviated by bringing Kyle off the bench and getting a shooter at the 3.

Conley/AB/(MLE or trade)Shooter/JJ/JV

I also wouldn't coun't on CJ Miles being a rotation player...if you plan on being good anyway.  And if you have Delon/Kyle/Noah coming off the bench, you need the other guy with Dillon to be a shooter also.

So IMO...Delon/Dillon/Shooter/Kyle/Noah

Then you have $33 million in expirings, the MLE and maybe our 1st to add two quality 3&D wings 6'7 ish and long.

If you are planning on winning next season  then I would not count on CJ Miles, Rabb, Jevon or Bruno being in the rotation.  Dillon is iffy enough.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Haven't that always been the case? However, I don't think anybody in Milwaukee's backcourt would be considered, "Big Time" what about Toronto's backcourt with an about to be 33 year old Kyle Lowry.

My position is this, back when Golden State was making its run 5 or 6 years ago, nobody ever thought about playing like the warriors played, or that even Steph Curry could be a superstar in the league. It's one of the reasons he is not with Nike.

These days and times, there are at least a dozen or more guys that are doing what curry does as good or better than him. It's not as novel anymore. Not to mention the fact that defenses have caught up to Golden State and that's one of the reasons that KD was so important to the warriors, because even the warriors themselves can't play that style effectively anymore.

Big men are actually coming back in a big way and in the next few years you are going to see it. Size again matters, more than anything, is my position on it.

The whole backcourt 3 pointer thing is largely over. Stop living in the past.

What have you been drinking, snorting or eating? Did you not watch the Jazz game, they shot 48 3s, Brook Lopez is shooting 3s right and left. There's a lot of centers shooting them.

1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

This is the problem.  I don't want to turn Jaren into a guy floating at the 3pt line all the time.  I want the ball in his hands more.  Not just as a finisher but as a creator also.  This also just jumps back into all the problems we have had with no shooting.  JV and Kyle are non-shooters.  That can be alleviated by bringing Kyle off the bench and getting a shooter at the 3.

Conley/AB/(MLE or trade)Shooter/JJ/JV

I also wouldn't coun't on CJ Miles being a rotation player...if you plan on being good anyway.  And if you have Delon/Kyle/Noah coming off the bench, you need the other guy with Dillon to be a shooter also.

So IMO...Delon/Dillon/Shooter/Kyle/Noah

Then you have $33 million in expirings, the MLE and maybe our 1st to add two quality 3&D wings 6'7 ish and long.

If you are planning on winning next season  then I would not count on CJ Miles, Rabb, Jevon or Bruno being in the rotation.  Dillon is iffy enough.

I'd bet you didn't count on CJ doing as well as he has, did you? He hasn't looked like a garbage player to me.

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18 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I wouldn't sign him for a lot, but at the same time, I also would not want to let him go, since what would he be preventing the grizzlies from doing?

Then again, I would not want to give him any of the mid-level exception, either. 

I'm also kinda glad that CJ has a player's option, because I like him on the team as well.

Holiday is a wasted roster spot.  

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