GrizzTigerFan

If we convey should we ReTool or ReBuild?

ReTool or ReBuild?  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. ReTool or ReBuild? Which Direction should we take?

    • Keep all major pieces this summer and aim for playoffs
      17
    • Flip all tradeable assets and start the full rebuild
      12


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6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

To go ahead and get a high draft pick now to start developing.  Because i am starting to believe they will run this same squad back next year and we won't have another chance at a high lottery pick till Conley is gone. 

Isn't a Top 6 pick today better than a mid first rd pick 2 years from now?   

Why wait for the pick?

I think it’s more likely to be a top 5 pick in 2 years than a mid first round 

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38 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I understand that viewpoint and agree with you that is ultimately the goal if team stays as is with no additional picks. 

Which is why i wanted to keep the pick this year at least.  Because i believe this same squad would easily convey next year. 

I agree with keeping the pick this year, what does anyone think they will get next year with a middle of the road pick? The Grizz will not be in the lottery next year unless something bad happens.

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54 minutes ago, Allen said:

I just have zero interest in being a middle of the pack team that has no chance at a championship.  That seems to be all that a lot of y’all are shooting for. 

Sometimes you just got to be realistic, you know? The Grizz can't go deep in the tax like a lot of these other teams are because of the money they get off their tv rights.

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IMO the team playing better is pyrite.  We should not get caught up in that...the goal should still be to turn this team into assets and initiate a genuine rebuild while conveying the pick THIS year.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

So you define rebuild as trading Conley, Jonas, and not resigning Delon?   Yes, if those are the Top 5 players in the roster then that def is a Top 6 lottery team. 

To clarify i believe the ReTool has already occurred.  We just havent seen it to its fullest potential due to injuries of JJJ, Dillon, and Slomo. 

I thought you said we were already in year 2 of the "rebuild"?

I don't recall it being called a "retool".

If we are not in the midst of a "rebuild" right now, with no other players except for Conley on this squad 3 years ago, then the Oxford Dictionary needs to redefine the word "rebuild"

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The Warriors dynasty is most likely over after this year. Durant is most likely going to New York, Cousins is going to one of the LA teams. Klay will stay, but they should be back to just the splash brothers and Green. They should be good, but certainly very beatable. The west should be wide open next year. 

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1 hour ago, Gradey said:

IMO the team playing better is pyrite.  We should not get caught up in that...the goal should still be to turn this team into assets and initiate a genuine rebuild while conveying the pick THIS year.

This.

We are suddenly playing decent against a bunch of mediocre or tanking teams. Let's not get carried away.

Even if we run this team back we will still be a bottom 8 team in the league. Unless JJJ turns into Dr. J next season. 

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

There is currently a debate over whether to keep or move on from our current roster this summer if we convey.     Personally i am conflicted. 

Some people view keeping them as a signal that FO isn't invested in improving the team.  They want to flip them and sign better Free Agents.     Others view the success they are starting to achieve and want to further develop it.    Who is correct?

 If FO does bring back Mike, Delon, CJ, Jonas, Avery, and Noah there will be no money to make any additional impact signings.    Those WILL be our signings.    So those that want to run it back are banking on continued success and development but to what end?    Fighting for 7-8th seed in the West again?   Fear of losing fanbase in this market is always part of the equation. 

Those who want to blow it up are saying they want to build back up thru the draft and free agency.   Removing those guys will "help" the tank going forward, according to them.   In that scenario roster construction will be at the mercy of trade returns mostly.   More than likely that team will be full of bad contracts as well.    It will have younger assets but more than likely it will take those assets 3-4yrs to get to the level of mediocrity we are now.     What Free Agents are going to want to come to a tanking team?   If any do they are either marginal or getting overpaid.  

 

Which view is correct? 

 

The longer this team is together the better they are going to get and they won't be middle of the pack. That's been proven time and again by teams ad nausea.

Teams that tank are not guaranteed to even make the playoffs: the suns, atlanta, etc. Nor is it a given that tanking or a lot of picks gets you superstars: see boston.

The only tried and true formula for success in the nba is to play vets and keep your team together for a significant amount of time. We have seen the Rockets, with the Dwight Howard situation retool, the okc thunder with the kd situation retool.

Philly spent years in the cellar and they are no better, and probably worse than Milwaukee and Toronto in closeness to a championship.

Wasting Jaren's good years is plain asinine. With Jaren, you have a superstar level rookie, and the grizzlies have a couple of more players that could develop into fringe allstars.

And you have to ask yourself what are the spurs doing? Why do they continue with a team that they have and not blow it up? Is pop an idiot?  I don't think so, I think pop recognizes that chemistry matters are he is improving his team year by year with development.

I'm so tired of the whole, fighting for an 8th seed zero-sum argument. Had the whole fighting for the 8th seed mantra been around, back when the grizzlies were forming grit-n-grind, I'm sure that team would have been labeled that pretty much all day every day.

People want to act like the grizzlies (being an eight seed), didn't beat a number 1 seed in the playoffs. I guess that didn't happen?

The argument is particularly tired for the sheer fact that the grizzlies aren't playing with those other glory players anymore. This is a completely new team with a completely different playing style. They aren't the slow it down grizzlies anymore fighting for an eight-seed team.

I think that you swammies need to give it a rest. 

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Rebuild the front office before doing anything to the roster, even before drafting. Get a new leader of the team who has a vision and can clearly state that vision to the fans. 

After that is accomplished I am open to discussing what should be done with the roster. Until I know what the front office’s vision is I can’t say what we should do with the roster.

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what do Sam Bowie, Greg Oden, Kwame Brown, Adam Morrison, Big Country, Darius Miles, Sebastian Telfer, Danny Ferry, Ed O'Bannon, and many others have in common....that's right ...high first round picks that were busts....no guarantee's...

 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Rebuild the front office before doing anything to the roster, even before drafting. Get a new leader of the team who has a vision and can clearly state that vision to the fans. 

After that is accomplished I am open to discussing what should be done with the roster. Until I know what the front office’s vision is I can’t say what we should do with the roster.

I actually think the front office has been well above average. They (STOP USING THIS WORD)  Toronto when people thought that Marc would only get us a bad contract and a mid-to-low first round pick.

And this deal isn't the first deal that wallace was successful with. The last superstar he traded he created a blueprint for the rest of the league with valuing capspace and expiring contracts.

They drafted Jaren, Dillon Brooks (second round), Ivan Rabb. They got by far the better player in Avery Bradly than they have up. They turned the grizzlies defense back into an elite unit in 1 year.

And although you guaranteed, based on your "sources," that wallace would be canned. I'm not so sure that is the case.

I don't see a reason why. The front office did the right thing this off-season, the problem was Marc. He decided he didn't want to play basketball anymore. That was not Chris Wallace's fault. 

Edited by 10SC-2-TOKYO

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1 hour ago, BigHunkALove said:

I thought you said we were already in year 2 of the "rebuild"?

I don't recall it being called a "retool".

If we are not in the midst of a "rebuild" right now, with no other players except for Conley on this squad 3 years ago, then the Oxford Dictionary needs to redefine the word "rebuild"

yes i have said that and by technical definition we are (tanking last year and overturning 80% of roster is universally deemed a rebuild).   But some people won't view it as official till Conley is gone. 

If we don't make moves to acquire more picks after having overturned 70% of the roster midseason then i deem that as a retool.  

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51 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Rebuild the front office before doing anything to the roster, even before drafting. Get a new leader of the team who has a vision and can clearly state that vision to the fans. 

After that is accomplished I am open to discussing what should be done with the roster. Until I know what the front office’s vision is I can’t say what we should do with the roster.

They just traded half the roster a month ago.   So its safe to say that FO isn't in a holding pattern like you are.   

 You may forever be silent if you are waiting on this guys to clarify a vision.    Oh Snap Nevermind Yea you go ahead and wait on FO changes before you say anything... Excellent point!  Bravo!  I fully support that!  👻👻

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Last 11 games Grizz ranks 25th in offense and 1rst in defense.    Its a pretty good chance the ReTooled Grizzlies would be serious competitors for a Playoff spot next season.    

However, that is not the same as being a championship contender longterm. 

This is not a playoff team.  Stop deluding yourself by what happens at the end of the NBA regular season when the opponents do not take this team seriously.

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2 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

This is not a playoff team.  Stop deluding yourself by what happens at the end of the NBA regular season when the opponents do not take this team seriously.

Of course they aren't a playoff team, they are under .500. They are 8th worst in the west. I thought everybody new that.

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1 minute ago, MemphisX said:

This is not a playoff team.  Stop deluding yourself by what happens at the end of the NBA regular season when the opponents do not take this team seriously.

If LA Clippers are a playoff team and Utah Jazz are one.  Then why can't this same roster be one too?   Are you forgetting that Jaren and SloMo would be back to replace the two weakest players in the rotation (Holiday and Bruno).     How many AllStars are heading up those two teams.     

If we stay a top 4 defense (possible) and get out of being deadlast offense.  There is a significant chance.     We just beat 3 teams that needed those wins to secure playoff positioning.    that was not a fluke and neither is our recent success. 

Your argument should be that is being a middling playoff team the best thing going forward.  Not arguing whether this team CAN be a playoff team. 

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10 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If LA Clippers are a playoff team and Utah Jazz are one.  Then why can't this same roster be one too?   Are you forgetting that Jaren and SloMo would be back to replace the two weakest players in the rotation (Holiday and Bruno).     How many AllStars are heading up those two teams.     

If we stay a top 4 defense (possible) and get out of being deadlast offense.  There is a significant chance.     We just beat 3 teams that needed those wins to secure playoff positioning.    that was not a fluke and neither is our recent success. 

Your argument should be that is being a middling playoff team the best thing going forward.  Not arguing whether this team CAN be a playoff team. 

No I said what I said.  You guys do this same silliness at the end of every bad season.  Put too much emphasis on player/team performance when games do not matter.  This team is not a middling playoff team.  This team is not Utah or the Clippers.  Hey but if that makes you feel better...do you.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The longer this team is together the better they are going to get and they won't be middle of the pack. That's been proven time and again by teams ad nausea.

Teams that tank are not guaranteed to even make the playoffs: the suns, atlanta, etc. Nor is it a given that tanking or a lot of picks gets you superstars: see boston.

The only tried and true formula for success in the nba is to play vets and keep your team together for a significant amount of time. We have seen the Rockets, with the Dwight Howard situation retool, the okc thunder with the kd situation retool.

Philly spent years in the cellar and they are no better, and probably worse than Milwaukee and Toronto in closeness to a championship.

Wasting Jaren's good years is plain asinine. With Jaren, you have a superstar level rookie, and the grizzlies have a couple of more players that could develop into fringe allstars.

And you have to ask yourself what are the spurs doing? Why do they continue with a team that they have and not blow it up? Is pop an idiot?  I don't think so, I think pop recognizes that chemistry matters are he is improving his team year by year with development.

I'm so tired of the whole, fighting for an 8th seed zero-sum argument. Had the whole fighting for the 8th seed mantra been around, back when the grizzlies were forming grit-n-grind, I'm sure that team would have been labeled that pretty much all day every day.

People want to act like the grizzlies (being an eight seed), didn't beat a number 1 seed in the playoffs. I guess that didn't happen?

The argument is particularly tired for the sheer fact that the grizzlies aren't playing with those other glory players anymore. This is a completely new team with a completely different playing style. They aren't the slow it down grizzlies anymore fighting for an eight-seed team.

I think that you swammies need to give it a rest. 

The dark side was swaying me until I read your post and came back to my senses. To me, both paths are really unknowns with no guarantees. So, I choose to keep fighting simply because it’s more fun to watch and be a part of. For the record, I don’t cheer for the eighth spot, I want the championship. That’s why you take every shot with everything you got and hope the FO does their part. F a rebuild! Where’s the sport in that? 

For the rebuilders, what is best case scenario? Then ask yourself what is worse case and imagine if you want to go through that. If the FO is as clueless as most feel they are, then it will probably resemble a rebuild anyways. 

Just feels like a crap shoot either way, so why not go the entertaining route instead of looking forward to draft day every year? 

BTW-Great thread GTF!

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1 minute ago, MemphisX said:

No I said what I said.  You guys do this same silliness at the end of every bad season.  Put too much emphasis on player/team performance when games do not matter.  This team is not a middling playoff team.  This team is not Utah or the Clippers.  Hey but if that makes you feel better...do you.

Don't ever forget Zbo first season when we went on a tear after ASB tear and almost got into playoff race until Gasol went down.    The very next season we fought and got the 8th seed and upset San Antonio.   

According to your logic it would've been silliness for them to do that. 

This squad is still under evaluation and its beyond short sighted to declare they can't be a playoff team next season.    Based on what?   You have never seen this combination of players together before?    If you judge it on current production then you have to give them a realistic chance to make it.    Grizz have made the playoffs with less roster talent than this. 

The games do matter how can you dismiss  20+ games as being inconsequential?   It isn't like we are playing nothing but lottery teams.   We also play squads that are fighting for playoff positioning.  That counts. 

Avery, Mike, Jonas, Jaren, SloMo and Delon can fight for a playoff spot.  Simple as that its not absurd. 

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We need a new core. We've got one major piece in JJJ, maaaaaaaaybe two with JV. How are we going to get the next guy? Either we trade Conley for him, trade this years pick (if we keep it) for him, or draft him. What's it gonna be. Draft is probably the best bet.

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