Kevin B Moses

The grizzlies front office decision on what to do with Jonas and Jaren will determine this teams fate for years to come

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38 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I like Jonas and think he will get more than $15 million. Part of me would like to keep him. But the smart play is to maintain flexibility while in rebuilding mode. Another massive long term deal on the books will not help. We aren't going to be a winning team for a few more seasons. We need cap space to take on other teams contracts in exchange for draft picks and your players. Chandler's albatross contract ends next summer.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; don't ruin it.

Its how most rebuilding teams thinks...keep short term 1 or 2 year deals on the books (except for long term players) until you are ready to rise into playoff status....but this franchise right here...

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46 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I like Jonas and think he will get more than $15 million. Part of me would like to keep him. But the smart play is to maintain flexibility while in rebuilding mode. Another massive long term deal on the books will not help. We aren't going to be a winning team for a few more seasons. We need cap space to take on other teams contracts in exchange for draft picks and your players. Chandler's albatross contract ends next summer.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; don't ruin it.

What, in a world of $133 Luxury Tax land, is considered a massive contract anyway? With Parsons falling off the books next season, Rade Zagoric, DJ Stephens, Jarnell Stokes, Dakari Johnson and Andrew Harrisons contracts all disappearing this season (over $3 million in cap space), Justin Holiday not looking for a raise ($4,500,000) and more potential money out there (Noah, Casspi, Rabb, Dorsey) the way I see things the Grizzlies need youth but they also need stability. If they can convince Jonas to sign longer term that would be a smart move.

I don't want to rebuild like Phoenix, Sacramento, New York, Brooklyn, etc where it takes 10+ years to return to the playoffs. 

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23 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Its how most rebuilding teams thinks...keep short term 1 or 2 year deals on the books (except for long term players) until you are ready to rise into playoff status....but this franchise right here...

Most rebuilding teams that go all in with youth look at rebuilding as more than a 2-3 year process. How long has it been since Sacramento or Phoenix made the playoffs? Rebuilding with draft picks requires two important steps: being bad enough to be a top picking team and getting lucky enough to get the top pick more than once. Memphis can be bad but can they also get lucky?

Personally I prefer rebuilding with quality veterans who can teach the younger players how to be professionals in the league and not lose so much it becomes habit forming. 

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6 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Most rebuilding teams that go all in with youth look at rebuilding as more than a 2-3 year process. How long has it been since Sacramento or Phoenix made the playoffs?

What rebuilding team rises back up in any time frame with a handful of long term vets filing the lineup? The issue with signing vets long term is that you have not developed a youth base first. Because the youth base is what is going to carry you. Then figure out what vet support players will help that lineup after you get that base.

Particularly a vet like JV who is offense only and slow. What if the new guys you pick needs him out of the way basically?

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2 minutes ago, Dwash said:

What rebuilding team rises back up in any time frame with a handful of long term vets filing the lineup? The issue with signing vets long term is that you have not developed a youth base first. Because the youth base is what is going to carry you. Then figure out what vet support players will help that lineup after you get that base.

Particularly a vet like JV who is offense only and slow. What if the new guys you pick needs him out of the way basically?

Utah did. Houston did. Washington did. A lot of teams dip into the lottery for a couple of seasons but keep their core and their team identity and then get back into the playoffs rather quickly. 

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36 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Utah did. Houston did. Washington did. A lot of teams dip into the lottery for a couple of seasons but keep their core and their team identity and then get back into the playoffs rather quickly. 

Im talking about a team that became as bad as the Grizzlies are now sir.

Not sure who you are referring to on Utah sir....but all of their players when they made it back in 2016-17 were young players (Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood, Burks) acquired during the rebuild or recently acquired vets such as George Hill, Joe Johnson, the honorable Shelvin Mack, Boris Diaw.  All the vets like Carroll, Kanter, Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Marvin Williams were moved.

Houston changed their entire roster over, please check these "facts" again sir. They were a playoff team in 08-09. They missed three years in a row and were plus .500 all three years. They "rebuilt" on the back of a great James Harden trade but basically all of their "veterans" (some werent even that old, maybe mid 20's) had turned over. CLee, Lowry, Dragic, Kevin Martin, Brad Miller, Battier...all moved during their 3 year hiatus....

Washington is your closest example to what the Grizzlies are going through. Again, no long term holdovers sir. They missed for 5 straight years and were terrible like the Grizzlies are. When they made it back in 2013-14, all of their vets were acquired in the after they got Wall/Beal (the base). Nene, Ariza, Martell Webster, Drew Gooden, Gortat acquired in 2012-13 or 2013-14.

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29 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Utah did. Houston did. Washington did. A lot of teams dip into the lottery for a couple of seasons but keep their core and their team identity and then get back into the playoffs rather quickly. 

I t would seem to me that SAS also had a rebuild and hardly missed a step, of course they were a big winner when they started their rebuild but I see no reason for the Grizz to go all in on a rebuild.

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

What rebuilding team rises back up in any time frame with a handful of long term vets filing the lineup? The issue with signing vets long term is that you have not developed a youth base first. Because the youth base is what is going to carry you. Then figure out what vet support players will help that lineup after you get that base.

Particularly a vet like JV who is offense only and slow. What if the new guys you pick needs him out of the way basically?

I hear you but i don't think JV would be a problem.  Also i think locking up Avery, Jonas, and Delon on 3-4yr deals isn't going to prevent the development of younger players.   All 3 of those guys can be reserves if need be which clears up any logjam potential.   I prefer having the same Center rotation next season (jonas/noah) then following year shift Jaren to C and Jonas to backup.   Noah will be gone by then. 

Reality is none of the youth ,outside of Jaren, have cemented themselves as part of future going forward.   At the most our new lottery picks are the only guys that chairs should be shuffled around for.   Dillon, Rabb, Bruno, and Jevon are still in "prove it" mode.   AB, Delon, and Jonas play time won't prevent those guys from seeing the floor.  Hopefully at least 2 of those guys emerge as a worthy investment going forward. 

IE:  If we draft RJ than move Avery to backup or slide him down to PG.   If we draft Zion then move Jaren to the 5 and make Jonas backup.   If we draft Garland then Delon goes back to 6th man.   Where is the logjam???

Five out of fifteen roster spots being solidified by young veterans (kyle, Avery, Jonas, and Delon) plus Jaren gives the team a more stable environment to develop the young players in.    It's hard to solidify a style of play when a Coach doesn't have a lock on which players will be here.    

Put it into context.  FIVE out of FIFTEEN spots being solidified will not harm our youth movement. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Im talking about a team that became as bad as the Grizzlies are now sir.

Not sure who you are referring to on Utah sir....but all of their players when they made it back in 2016-17 were young players (Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood, Burks) acquired during the rebuild or recently acquired vets such as George Hill, Joe Johnson, the honorable Shelvin Mack, Boris Diaw.  All the vets like Carroll, Kanter, Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Marvin Williams were moved.

Houston changed their entire roster over, please check these "facts" again sir. They were a playoff team in 08-09. They missed three years in a row and were plus .500 all three years. They "rebuilt" on the back of a great James Harden trade but basically all of their "veterans" (some werent even that old, maybe mid 20's) had turned over. CLee, Lowry, Dragic, Kevin Martin, Brad Miller, Battier...all moved during their 3 year hiatus....

Washington is your closest example to what the Grizzlies are going through. Again, no long term holdovers sir. They missed for 5 straight years and were terrible like the Grizzlies are. When they made it back in 2013-14, all of their vets were acquired in the after they got Wall/Beal (the base). Nene, Ariza, Martell Webster, Drew Gooden, Gortat acquired in 2012-13 or 2013-14.

The way I see it Memphis isn't as bad as their record suggests. Jaren has been far better than I expected, Kyle was better than I expected too. Rabb is developing, Wright and JV make the Gasol trade palatable. This team isn't that bad. Next season they add a solid rookie, the have a full camp to get the new guys acclimated and Jackson improves. They could be a stronger team next season without destroying everything. The only "old" player who is expected to be on the team next season is Conley. Everyone else is young by my way of looking at age. None of the players have long term deals except Kyle and Jaren too. 

If we jettison all the older players, especially when we are giving up one first round pick in the next three drafts, it is a recipe for disaster that could see the Grizzlies in the outhouse for an extended period of time. If we maintain the core of youth and keep enough veterans around to make sure losing doesn't become a habit they could be back sooner.  

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8 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I hear you but i don't think JV would be a problem.  Also i think locking up Avery, Jonas, and Delon on 3-4yr deals isn't going to prevent the development of younger players.   All 3 of those guys can be reserves if need be which clears up any logjam potential.   I prefer having the same Center rotation next season (jonas/noah) then following year shift Jaren to C and Jonas to backup.   Noah will be gone by then. 

Reality is none of the youth ,outside of Jaren, have cemented themselves as part of future going forward.   At the most our new lottery picks are the only guys that chairs should be shuffled around for.   Dillon, Rabb, Bruno, and Jevon are still in "prove it" mode.   AB, Delon, and Jonas play time won't prevent those guys from seeing the floor.  Hopefully at least 2 of those guys emerge as a worthy investment going forward. 

IE:  If we draft RJ than move Avery to backup or slide him down to PG.   If we draft Zion then move Jaren to the 5 and make Jonas backup.   If we draft Garland then Delon goes back to 6th man.   Where is the logjam???

Five out of fifteen roster spots being solidified by young veterans (kyle, Avery, Jonas, and Delon) plus Jaren gives the team a more stable environment to develop the young players in.    It's hard to solidify a style of play when a Coach doesn't have a lock on which players will be here.    

Put it into context.  FIVE out of FIFTEEN spots being solidified will not harm our youth movement. 

 

There is still no logical reason to sign vets long term and after I just went through the some roster analysis from teams that Chip claimed kept vets around while rebuilding it even further cemented my belief. No matter how much you like them or want to fantasize JV or Bradley on the roster they wont be in a rebuild core.  If they want to be on one maybe two year deals where they can always be moved to teams that need expirings, cool, then your vets (for guidance) just become guys on bad deals that no one wants. But using middle of the road vets for actual on court production in a rebuild is useless and has no real history of helping that I can find.

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6 minutes ago, Dwash said:

There is still no logical reason to sign vets long term and after I just went through the some roster analysis from teams that Chip claimed kept vets around while rebuilding it even further cemented my belief. No matter how much you like them or want to fantasize JV or Bradley on the roster they wont be in a rebuild core.  If they want to be on one maybe two year deals where they can always be moved to teams that need expirings, cool, then your vets (for guidance) just become guys on bad deals that no one wants. But using middle of the road vets for actual on court production in a rebuild is useless and has no real history of helping that I can find.

You do realize that the only players the Grizzlies have control over contract-wise are Avery Bradley and Delon Wright. JV and Miles have player options. They can walk this summer or they can return without the Grizzlies having a say in the matter. Locking down JV for 3-4 more years at a lesser salary isn't a bad idea to me if possible. 

Unfortunately you will probably get your wish with Avery Bradley since I can't imagine the team bringing him back at nearly $13 million next season if JV and Miles opt into their contracts anyway. Those deals plus a top draft pick make it unlikely Bradley gets his option picked up. The Grizzlies only owe him $2 million if he doesn't play for the team. 

Two seasons from now the Grizzlies will likely have JJJ, Kyle and what then? A mid-lottery pick in a bad draft, an expiring contract (possibly) with Conley and that's it. No one on the team is signed past the 2020-21 season except those players. I don't believe that type of turnover on the roster will lead to a successful turnaround anytime soon. Surely some continuity would be preferable to this mass exodus the franchise is facing. 

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9 minutes ago, Dwash said:

There is still no logical reason to sign vets long term and after I just went through the some roster analysis from teams that Chip claimed kept vets around while rebuilding it even further cemented my belief. No matter how much you like them or want to fantasize JV or Bradley on the roster they wont be in a rebuild core.  If they want to be on one maybe two year deals where they can always be moved to teams that need expirings, cool, then your vets (for guidance) just become guys on bad deals that no one wants. But using middle of the road vets for actual on court production in a rebuild is useless and has no real history of helping that I can find.

We are talking about 3 guys tho.   You are acting like we are trying to resign 8 past their prime vets.    They are ages 26-28y which means they will still be in primes at the end of their deals. 

Yet, you want to keep Conley around, who actually would be in the way of younger players.    The team is geared towards him as long as he is here it will be.    Avery, Delon and Jonas don't have that type of clout.      Delon can play alongside another ballhandler or be the primary one.    How is it bad to lock him up on a reasonable 3-4yr deal ala SloMo??    Do you think SloMo is bad for a rebuild too?   

The examples you site signed their Vets to big deals.  That is not the same strategy I am suggesting.     That would be akin to us saying sign CJ Miles and Noah to 5  year 75m deals.    We aren't.   Jaren needs some type of stability around him as quickly as possible.   

Having a bunch of mercs on the team (1-2y deals) can result in a lot of guys looking out for themselves and hurt chemistry building.   Why would Jaren want to stay in an environment like that longterm?  

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53 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

What, in a world of $133 Luxury Tax land, is considered a massive contract anyway? With Parsons falling off the books next season, Rade Zagoric, DJ Stephens, Jarnell Stokes, Dakari Johnson and Andrew Harrisons contracts all disappearing this season (over $3 million in cap space), Justin Holiday not looking for a raise ($4,500,000) and more potential money out there (Noah, Casspi, Rabb, Dorsey) the way I see things the Grizzlies need youth but they also need stability. If they can convince Jonas to sign longer term that would be a smart move.

I don't want to rebuild like Phoenix, Sacramento, New York, Brooklyn, etc where it takes 10+ years to return to the playoffs. 

What about letting Holiday walk to get more cap space? From what I've seen of him so far, he doesn't look too impressive. I agree that the best way to rebuild is to do it on the fly, with some good vets to mentor the young guys. JV, at only 26 years old, has 6 years of NBA experience (and playoff experience). He is the ultimate team player, works hard and is loyal. He would be a great mentor for the younger guys, plus JV is just going into his prime as a player. I think the Grizz should try to re-sign JV, Delon and Avery for 3-4 years. Sign Noah for maybe 1-2 more years. Noah is getting up there in age, but he could be a good mentor, and he definitely helps get the team's emotions up during games. Somebody also mentioned the possibility of stretching the Parsons contract to create more cap space, since no other team would want his contract. The Parsons contract is eating 20% of cap space (Mike's contract is 25% of cap space). Mike still has a few good years left in him, but can the team afford to keep him?

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First, I only wanted to keep Conley to convey and you know that. Second, Slomo can be moved if anyone wants to give something for him.

The roster will fill out with some vets, just dont know who they will be right now. 

We can go back and forth, but I dont know what else I can say other than ask you guys to do some research on teams that pick in the lottery in multiple years like the Grizzlies will likely be doing for the forseeable future and you will find that most if not all of them moved the vets. You can speculate all the reasons, dumb franchise, player request or desire, got a good deal, whatever, but you will find that this is a consistent model for franchise building. Not torturing vets used to winning with losing and keeping them around for stability, guidance or whatever.

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

What rebuilding team rises back up in any time frame with a handful of long term vets filing the lineup? The issue with signing vets long term is that you have not developed a youth base first. Because the youth base is what is going to carry you. Then figure out what vet support players will help that lineup after you get that base.

Particularly a vet like JV who is offense only and slow. What if the new guys you pick needs him out of the way basically?

JV is not offense only, but he loves to play offense. As far as being slow, at 265 lbs he will never be a speedster, but he brings so many things to the table both on and off the court. He would be a great mentor to the younger guys. The Grizz would be nuts not to try and re-sign him. He is a vet with playoff experience and is only 26 years old.

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38 minutes ago, GameOn said:

JV is not offense only, but he loves to play offense. As far as being slow, at 265 lbs he will never be a speedster, but he brings so many things to the table both on and off the court. He would be a great mentor to the younger guys. The Grizz would be nuts not to try and re-sign him. He is a vet with playoff experience and is only 26 years old.

This team could be a playoff team next year with they players they currently have.

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Oh boy didn't even notice this gem of a thread while skimming through the topics. I guess cuz KBM made it :lol: just kiddin my man. Anyways in an ideal world JV picks up his option or we sign him to a 1+1. This gives us a full season to see if him n JJJ can mesh and which position JJJ fits better at. And if it doesn't work out....well there's Wiseman or Vernon Carey sitting there waiting for us at the end of next season.

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3 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I like Jonas and think he will get more than $15 million. Part of me would like to keep him. But the smart play is to maintain flexibility while in rebuilding mode. Another massive long term deal on the books will not help. We aren't going to be a winning team for a few more seasons. We need cap space to take on other teams contracts in exchange for draft picks and your players. Chandler's albatross contract ends next summer.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; don't ruin it.

Well yes, given he has an option next year of $17.6 million, it is safe to say he will be playing for more than $15 mm.

The question is what do you think he will get in two summers? Take a look at the last 2 Summers off free agent signings for centers like him and make a guess, especially for a 3 or 4 year deal.

The Grizzlies have an advantage in resigning him that could be beneficial for both parties if he fits in their plans, and IF he actually wants to stay in Memphis long term.

 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

First, I only wanted to keep Conley to convey and you know that. Second, Slomo can be moved if anyone wants to give something for him.

The roster will fill out with some vets, just dont know who they will be right now. 

We can go back and forth, but I dont know what else I can say other than ask you guys to do some research on teams that pick in the lottery in multiple years like the Grizzlies will likely be doing for the forseeable future and you will find that most if not all of them moved the vets. You can speculate all the reasons, dumb franchise, player request or desire, got a good deal, whatever, but you will find that this is a consistent model for franchise building. Not torturing vets used to winning with losing and keeping them around for stability, guidance or whatever.

Those same teams mostly sucked for a long time too.   The idea in this rebuild is for it to not take 4-5years.   Our market cannot withstand that. 

 I agree we can go back and forth because there is no exact science to this.   

If you want to keep Jaren longterm then he needs a few players along with him for some stability.    Shuffling in guys every year won't endear him to the franchise.   We especially need some type of consistency with the guards because he needs someone to feed him the ball. 

What type of vets do you think we can sign for a small market team that is a perennial lottery one?

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2 hours ago, GameOn said:

What about letting Holiday walk to get more cap space? From what I've seen of him so far, he doesn't look too impressive. I agree that the best way to rebuild is to do it on the fly, with some good vets to mentor the young guys. JV, at only 26 years old, has 6 years of NBA experience (and playoff experience). He is the ultimate team player, works hard and is loyal. He would be a great mentor for the younger guys, plus JV is just going into his prime as a player. I think the Grizz should try to re-sign JV, Delon and Avery for 3-4 years. Sign Noah for maybe 1-2 more years. Noah is getting up there in age, but he could be a good mentor, and he definitely helps get the team's emotions up during games. Somebody also mentioned the possibility of stretching the Parsons contract to create more cap space, since no other team would want his contract. The Parsons contract is eating 20% of cap space (Mike's contract is 25% of cap space). Mike still has a few good years left in him, but can the team afford to keep him?

I don't know what the Grizzlies plan is for Holiday. It seems like a waste to trade him for two expiring contracts and two second round picks just to let him go in the off-season. That being said he hasn't done a lot to impress the fans to want to keep him either. I can't imagine he returns with a raise or even the same salary however. 

JV can simply opt into his contract for the upcoming season but I hope the Grizzlies can work out a deal where he re-signs for less money but a longer stint. I realize I am in the minority opinion but I feel what we are getting from JV is likely all there is at best. At worst we will get more along the lines of his career averages. He is a strong double digit scorer and high single digit rebounder who can play less than 30 minutes a night. 

Delon is a restricted free agent so the Grizzlies will have to offer him the qualifying offer for the upcoming season. His play of late has made re-signing him problematic however. He could get offered a big contract from someone which would pressure the Grizzlies already bloated cap situation for the upcoming season. If the Grizzlies really want to re-sign him they could ask him to accept the qualifying offer with a promise of a raise next summer but that is a risky bet for someone like him to accept. 

Avery is a problem. Simply put if the Grizzlies don't give the Celtics their pick then his contract becomes a difficult when combined with a high draft pick's salary. If Devon accepts the qualifying offer (doubtful if he continues his level of play), Miles and JV opt into their deals (likely in my opinion) and Conley and Parsons aren't moved then the team has 10 players signed for over $111 million in salary wiith Bradley. They would then add in a top 8 pick (minimum $4 million in salary) and at least 3 other players while trying to remain below $130 million to avoid the luxury tax. That is only getting the roster to 14 players as well. 

If the Grizzlies plan on making a play for Noah with one of those spots then Avery becomes a luxury the Grizzlies may not be able to afford. The Grizzlies would free up $10 million in salary if they don't resign Bradley on the other hand (he has a $2 million buyout). 

I assume one of Noah, Bradley and Holiday will be back on the squad next season but I can't see all three of them returning. 

Then again if the Grizzlies do stretch Parsons' contract they could potentially return all three players but would add more years of the Parsons' headache to the Front Office. I don't believe they will do that.

And Dwash, I agree that eventually most teams that spend a long time in the lottery eventually move their veterans I just don't know if there is a direct correlation to the speed in which the veterans are moved and the speed to which the return to the playoffs occurs.  

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Truthfully, i really only see Delon and Jonas getting resigned.   They are young enough to be able to still be contributors when we come out of rebuild.  

Bringing back Avery on 13m probably isn't as good of value as you can get from trading him.    I see Avery contract as way more valuable in offseason over Jonas expiring due to its structure.   A prudent FO would explore the market on both Mike and Avery this summer.  I don't see Noah returning either.  He doesn't have too much time left to get a ring so why waste another year on a non-contender.    Very similar to Tyreke situation.  CJ aint going anywhere but he will only be 32y so its possible for him to still be able to contribute.  Holiday shouldn't be resigned.  If we need a player they may bring up Yuta to fill out the roster. 

 It's possible to get good value for them both.   Look at our roster situation going forward

 

                                                    

 

Total Cap Allocations

 

2018-19

$120,536,717

2019-20

$119,421,994

2020-21

$51,264,590

2021-22

$19,117,710

 
Signed Players   25 12 3 2 0
Guards   $50,281,092 $46,888,475 $34,502,130    
Forwards   $50,446,181 $54,915,541 $16,762,460 $19,117,710  
Centers   $17,633,184 $17,617,978      
Dead   $2,200,952 $459,414 $459,414  

Signing Jonas and Delon to team friendly deals and being off of Conley and Chandler contract by 2021 gives us tons of room to be able to make rebuild exiting signings.     Hopefully all we will be trying to sign is complimentary guys to our main focal points (Jaren, 2019pick , 2020 pick).   If we are trying to sign a scorer at that time then something went awry. 

In other words i think we should ask Jonas to opt out so we can resign him. 

 

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Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

Truthfully, i really only see Delon and Jonas getting resigned.   They are young enough to be able to still be contributors when we come out of rebuild.  

Bringing back Avery on 13m probably isn't as good of value as you can get from trading him.    I see Avery contract as way more valuable in offseason over Jonas expiring due to its structure.   A prudent FO would explore the market on both Mike and Avery this summer.  I don't see Noah returning either.  He doesn't have too much time left to get a ring so why waste another year on a non-contender.    Very similar to Tyreke situation.  CJ aint going anywhere but he will only be 32y so its possible for him to still be able to contribute.  Holiday shouldn't be resigned.  If we need a player they may bring up Yuta to fill out the roster. 

 It's possible to get good value for them both.   Look at our roster situation going forward

 

                                                    

 

Total Cap Allocations

 

2018-19

$120,536,717

2019-20

$119,421,994

2020-21

$51,264,590

2021-22

$19,117,710

 
Signed Players   25 12 3 2 0
Guards   $50,281,092 $46,888,475 $34,502,130    
Forwards   $50,446,181 $54,915,541 $16,762,460 $19,117,710  
Centers   $17,633,184 $17,617,978      
Dead   $2,200,952 $459,414 $459,414  

Signing Jonas and Delon to team friendly deals and being off of Conley and Chandler contract by 2021 gives us tons of room to be able to make rebuild exiting signings.     Hopefully all we will be trying to sign is complimentary guys to our main focal points (Jaren, 2019pick , 2020 pick).   If we are trying to sign a scorer at that time then something went awry. 

In other words i think we should ask Jonas to opt out so we can resign him. 

 

i think bradley could be useful to the bucks , either waived or kept . 

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Those same teams mostly sucked for a long time too.   The idea in this rebuild is for it to not take 4-5years.   Our market cannot withstand that. 

 I agree we can go back and forth because there is no exact science to this.   

If you want to keep Jaren longterm then he needs a few players along with him for some stability.    Shuffling in guys every year won't endear him to the franchise.   We especially need some type of consistency with the guards because he needs someone to feed him the ball. 

What type of vets do you think we can sign for a small market team that is a perennial lottery one?

Yeah, all teams who need their foundation rebuilt suck for a few years.  Lol. The period of time is almost undeterminable because its majority dependent on what core players you draft not some boo boo role players. Smaller cities like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Orlando, Denver etc all survived these rebuilds for many years and havent moved, but if your city is so poor and disinterested that you cant stand 4 or 5 years of bad play as a NBA small market you might as well move now. So I cant worry abour that.

The vets you sign should be guys who can be moved easily, dont expect playing time and understand the situation. Atlanta signed Vince Carter. Something like that. Vets picked up in trades can be like when Nets picked up guys like Lin, Carroll, Crabbe or Faried to get assets in salary dumps.

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