Kevin B Moses

The grizzlies front office decision on what to do with Jonas and Jaren will determine this teams fate for years to come

Recommended Posts

On 3/4/2019 at 7:28 AM, chipc3 said:

I hope Jonas opts out of his current contract and resigns for around $15 million a season for four years. 

Wow you and GTF are never going to be an NBA GM. You're going to ask this guy to take 10M less than Gasol would make next year? It seems yall rate Grizz players in GOLD and other teams players in pyrite. I'm almost tempted to ask you if you want a chance to get your money back on this. I don't see JV signing for 15M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/4/2019 at 9:21 AM, chipc3 said:

I don't know. Honestly most teams are getting away from the slow, but skilled big men down low. That could limit his market honestly. He's not a great defender. He doesn't seem to have three point range. He is limited in many ways which is why I believe he may be interested in opting out and taking less for a longer term. 

Why don't you tell us what teams are getting away from the skilled big men?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to compete with playoff built teams, you need a big body in the middle that can bang away..otherwise these teams will feast on you....read what your saying..."the NBA is getting away from "skilled big men"....really?  Your probably the guy saying lets just do away with positions and put 5 guys on the floor...and who needs schemes on either end of the court....just let them play...pick up basketball...i thought i've been hearing from competing coaches they are getting beat physically from the Grizzlies, like Dallas coach...they can't match up...maybe the Mavs might be interested in JV?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Wouldn't they have to pay league minimum for a guy with all the time he has been in the NBA?

No. He is a free agent and they can pay him whatever they want that he will accept. Jonas is looking to be paid $17 million next season. I hope the Grizzlies can negotiate that down since he is only a 25-28 MPG player, lacks foot speed, isn't a great shot blocker and hasn't shown to be efficient either shooting the three or defending on the perimeter. Jonas has skills but are they the skills teams covet these days? 

 

15 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Wow you and GTF are never going to be an NBA GM. You're going to ask this guy to take 10M less than Gasol would make next year? It seems yall rate Grizz players in GOLD and other teams players in pyrite. I'm almost tempted to ask you if you want a chance to get your money back on this. I don't see JV signing for 15M.

First, I know I have said repeatedly I am not a GM nor do I play one on these boards. I am simply a fan. 

Second, comparing Gasol and Jonas is not apples and oranges. Marc is a three time all-star center who can hit 3 point shots and has inside skills. He is a former Defensive Player of the Year and his contract was panned by many fans as being over-priced when he signed it. Now in the last year of his deal he can opt out this summer so who knows what he will be paid next year? His top money is certainly the year remaining on his current contract. He may opt out and accept less for longer however. After all, if he gets hurt next season his career could be over. 

14 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Why don't you tell us what teams are getting away from the skilled big men?

 First, you have misquoted me. I didn't say teams are getting away from skilled big men. I said "I don't know. Honestly most teams are getting away from the slow, but skilled big men down low. That could limit his market honestly. He's not a great defender. He doesn't seem to have three point range. He is limited in many ways which is why I believe he may be interested in opting out and taking less for a longer term." If you are going to quote me please please be accurate in your quotes. 

Second, if you want a list of teams going away from slow but skilled big men they would include Los Angeles Clippers, San Antonio Spurs, Golden State Warriors (despite signing Bogut for low dollars), Boston, Indiana, etc. Teams want fast centers who can defend big men on the perimeter and take threes themselves. JV is a career mid twenty minutes a night player, slow footed, not a great 3 point shooter and a disaster guarding bigs on the perimeter. He is skilled but his skills aren't as in demand as they used to be.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

u don't go from cellar to penthouse in a draft or free agent signings in a year....Memphis rebuild is going to take years...with the exception of 2 or 3 of the elite "bigs", I could look at their game and find flaws....this team has challenges too many to list...it's a process...not sure why JV is a polarizing figure for many of you....my guess is there would be upwards of 10 teams that would have serious interest in him in the off-season...

good conversation...let's play out the season and see how he plays and contributes...still too small a sample size.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

some of you folks need to give your head a shake re is JV worth keeping long term and at what salary...since he has been with the Grizzlies, he is averaging 18.4 points and 10.1 rebounds...if his minutes stay the same see no reason why these numbers wouldn't stay near the same.  If you look at the five centers above him in salary, this is what they make and their numbers;

Bismack Biyombo - 4.3 points / 4.7 rebounds - $17M

Tristain Thompson - 11.5 points / 11.1 rebounds - $17.4

De Andre Jordan - 11.1 points / 13.5 rebounds - $22.8

Rudy Gobert - 15.3 points / 12.9 rebounds - $23.4

Steven Adams - 14.6 points / 9.7 rebounds - $24.1M

Jonas Valanciunas - 18.4 points / 10.1 rebounds - $16.5M

oh yeah, and he is shooting 58% from the floor and near 80% from the foul line....I think we have bigger needs than getting rid of a 26 year old who is low maintenance and team first and win guy....

 

 

I like JV, but I also know the Grizzlies aren't cash rich with Parsons & Conley contracts there, and truly want him to return at the right price. I'm not going to bash him to try to prove some point, but some of those centers you "selected" have teams that aren't excited to be paying them at that price.  And that's the point.  The contracts centers get are not what they used to be.

Centers who got more than 3 years/ $45 mm over the last few free agent deals:

2018: Jokic and Capela

Centers who didn't:

Nurkic (4/$48)

DeAndre (1/$23)

Dwight Howard (2/$10)

 

2017:  Pau kind of got it, but it wasn't guaranteed (3/$48)

Centers who didn't (everyone else) with Mason Plumlee getting 3/41

2016 was the year of Parsons like spending, and almost all teams that paid big money to their centers have regretted it:

Andre Drummond, Al Horford, Hassan Whiteside, Joakim Noah, Bismack Biyombo, Dwight Howard, Mozgov, Ian Mahinmi....all got over that amount.  I'm not sure how many teams would do that again, especially since a couple of these guys got bought out.

 

For reference, the PF position is similar:

2017: Blake, Milsaps, and Ibaka all made over $15 mm/year.  That's it.

2018: Aaron Gordon, Jabari Parker, and Derrick Favors at or over $15 mm/year

 

 

This next FA class has a lot of centers with player options, and my guess is they all opt-in unless they restructure their deal to make it longer term and more team friendly.

Horford ($28 mm), Whiteside ($24 mm), Marc ($22.6 mm), Biyomob ($18mm), JV.

The center FA's next year:

DeAndre, DeMarcus Cousins, Robin and Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucevic, and a bunch of guys that make less than $9 mm a season.  My guess is that Cousins goes to Lakers, and maybe DJ goes to either Brooklyn or stays in NY.  I see a market for JV, but not a $15 mm/year guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

u don't go from cellar to penthouse in a draft or free agent signings in a year....Memphis rebuild is going to take years...with the exception of 2 or 3 of the elite "bigs", I could look at their game and find flaws....this team has challenges too many to list...it's a process...not sure why JV is a polarizing figure for many of you....my guess is there would be upwards of 10 teams that would have serious interest in him in the off-season...

good conversation...let's play out the season and see how he plays and contributes...still too small a sample size.

 

I don't think he is a polarizing figure.  I don't know who doesn't like him or want him to return....well, except for those who are "fans" but only like future draft picks or guys on other teams that they only see during SportsCenter.

The question is at what price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Vet, I'm not going to bash the Big V either but the numbers Lugan quoted are old, the market has dropped a lot since those contract were signed, contrast those $ to guys like Brook Lopez and Javale McGee who are reasonably productive on both ends.

If Chancre was off the books I'd be ok with JV opting in but I'm kind of hoping he opts out, I'd rather keep Avery, and spend money on SG and SF upgrades. Avery is fair price at the moment, look at Reke, Lamb, Bazemore, Hard away Jr, CLee etc . I'll take Avery thanks very much - plus he wants to be here, his family is from the Memphis-Miss. area, and he's enjoying and producing in the role he has here which is freedom with the ball. He ain't a spot up shooter, the Clips were trying to make be like Austin Rivers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

I agree with Vet, I'm not going to bash the Big V either but the numbers Lugan quoted are old, the market has dropped a lot since those contract were signed, contrast those $ to guys like Brook Lopez and Javale McGee who are reasonably productive on both ends.

If Chancre was off the books I'd be ok with JV opting in but I'm kind of hoping he opts out, I'd rather keep Avery, and spend money on SG and SF upgrades. Avery is fair price at the moment, look at Reke, Lamb, Bazemore, Hard away Jr, CLee etc . I'll take Avery thanks very much - plus he wants to be here, his family is from the Memphis-Miss. area, and he's enjoying and producing in the role he has here which is freedom with the ball. He ain't a spot up shooter, the Clips were trying to make be like Austin Rivers

That's not smart, you should hope that he opts in: trade value, etc. If he opts out we get nothing in return for marc of real value. The grizzlies are going to keep Avery Bradley, at least at the beginning of the season, so that they can control where he goes. 

JV would be worth a significant amount in a trade, is my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

That's not smart, you should hope that he opts in: trade value, etc. If he opts out we get nothing in return for marc of real value. The grizzlies are going to keep Avery Bradley, at least at the beginning of the season, so that they can control where he goes. 

JV would be worth a significant amount in a trade, is my opinion.

yes I agree your points, the Big V WOULD have significant trade value, I was just looking at it from the POV that, assuming we dont give the pick to Boston, we need to take on approx $5MIL in salary, therefore we can not keep all our new acquisitions, therefore someone has to go, and that would be Avery because he's not fully guaranteed, which would be a shame, unless of course they trade Conley on draft day and free up salary - which is not necessarily a great move either depending on the return.

Thanks again to Chancre PegLeg for this predicament.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

yes I agree your points, the Big V WOULD have significant trade value, I was just looking at it from the POV that, assuming we dont give the pick to Boston, we need to take on approx $5MIL in salary, therefore we can not keep all our new acquisitions, therefore someone has to go, and that would be Avery because he's not fully guaranteed, which would be a shame, unless of course they trade Conley on draft day and free up salary - which is not necessarily a great move either depending on the return.

Thanks again to Chancre PegLeg for this predicament.....

The grizzlies can sign bradley and get under the cap at the deadline. There are a lot of ways to do it. They can buy cj miles out, or stretch his salary, trade chancunand take less money back, etc.

I don't think its going to be as big of a deal as herrington seems to think. And if people think that the grizzlies aren't going to be motivated to keep Bradley and Jonas, they are fooling themselves. The grizzlies aren't going to let these guys walk. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the numbers i provided on the bigs salaries were current...but I agree that the NBA market will dictate what Jonas gets...and I have a gut sense that he would stay in Memphis for about the same, $14-$16M  maybe even a little less with longer term...he is a loyal and family guy first...but we all know NBA is all business and has zero loyalty to it's players...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The grizzlies can sign bradley and get under the cap at the deadline. There are a lot of ways to do it. They can buy cj miles out, or stretch his salary, trade chancunand take less money back, etc.

I don't think its going to be as big of a deal as herrington seems to think. And if people think that the grizzlies aren't going to be motivated to keep Bradley and Jonas, they are fooling themselves. The grizzlies aren't going to let these guys walk. 

ok thanks for that I'll keep it in mind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lugan Village said:

I thought the numbers i provided on the bigs salaries were current...but I agree that the NBA market will dictate what Jonas gets...and I have a gut sense that he would stay in Memphis for about the same, $14-$16M  maybe even a little less with longer term...he is a loyal and family guy first...but we all know NBA is all business and has zero loyalty to it's players...

they are current numbers, what I meant is that these contracts were signed a few years ago when the FA market was going crazy due to the salary cap increase. But things have changed since then, as well as GSW, Celtics, Rockets showing you dont need a twin towers or even a really big C to win

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, chipc3 said:

No. He is a free agent and they can pay him whatever they want that he will accept. Jonas is looking to be paid $17 million next season. I hope the Grizzlies can negotiate that down since he is only a 25-28 MPG player, lacks foot speed, isn't a great shot blocker and hasn't shown to be efficient either shooting the three or defending on the perimeter. Jonas has skills but are they the skills teams covet these days? 

 

First, I know I have said repeatedly I am not a GM nor do I play one on these boards. I am simply a fan. 

Second, comparing Gasol and Jonas is not apples and oranges. Marc is a three time all-star center who can hit 3 point shots and has inside skills. He is a former Defensive Player of the Year and his contract was panned by many fans as being over-priced when he signed it. Now in the last year of his deal he can opt out this summer so who knows what he will be paid next year? His top money is certainly the year remaining on his current contract. He may opt out and accept less for longer however. After all, if he gets hurt next season his career could be over. 

 First, you have misquoted me. I didn't say teams are getting away from skilled big men. I said "I don't know. Honestly most teams are getting away from the slow, but skilled big men down low. That could limit his market honestly. He's not a great defender. He doesn't seem to have three point range. He is limited in many ways which is why I believe he may be interested in opting out and taking less for a longer term." If you are going to quote me please please be accurate in your quotes. 

Second, if you want a list of teams going away from slow but skilled big men they would include Los Angeles Clippers, San Antonio Spurs, Golden State Warriors (despite signing Bogut for low dollars), Boston, Indiana, etc. Teams want fast centers who can defend big men on the perimeter and take threes themselves. JV is a career mid twenty minutes a night player, slow footed, not a great 3 point shooter and a disaster guarding bigs on the perimeter. He is skilled but his skills aren't as in demand as they used to be.    

Who says Jonas can't play more minutes? Just because JB isn't playing him more than that doesn't mean he can't. I don't think JN can go flat out like he plays for long and he didn't play nearly as well against OKC as he did Dallas, was it because he was tired on the B2B? GTF wants him to be the starter, not me. There is very few centers that can keep up with the smaller players, the Grizz has been lousy playing the PnR since I started watching them play. 

Marc has been a 3 time AS but you can't pay players for what they have done before and still be a competitive team. Also JV is scoring at a higher average than Gasol, rebounding better and blocking more shots at the rim than Gasol, he had gotten the point where he could only slap the ball away. I don't think anything about him limits his market value. He can move guys out that Gasol had to try to get around. Boston has at least 2 big men and I wouldn't consider either of them as fast, has LMA moved into the C position for the Spurs, he sure isn't fast, I can't come up with the Clippers C but they aren't setting the woods on fire. You got both of the Lopez brothers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Anyone who actually watches games.

 

Every time people on here see someone trying hard, they want to sign them to stupid contracts.

And how many games was that? Before JJJ got injured?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

some of you folks need to give your head a shake re is JV worth keeping long term and at what salary...since he has been with the Grizzlies, he is averaging 18.4 points and 10.1 rebounds...if his minutes stay the same see no reason why these numbers wouldn't stay near the same.  If you look at the five centers above him in salary, this is what they make and their numbers;

Bismack Biyombo - 4.3 points / 4.7 rebounds - $17M

Tristain Thompson - 11.5 points / 11.1 rebounds - $17.4

De Andre Jordan - 11.1 points / 13.5 rebounds - $22.8

Rudy Gobert - 15.3 points / 12.9 rebounds - $23.4

Steven Adams - 14.6 points / 9.7 rebounds - $24.1M

Jonas Valanciunas - 18.4 points / 10.1 rebounds - $16.5M

oh yeah, and he is shooting 58% from the floor and near 80% from the foul line....I think we have bigger needs than getting rid of a 26 year old who is low maintenance and team first and win guy....

 

Where is the "like" button?  

It would be crazy to not hold on to a proven big like JV.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/5/2019 at 2:07 PM, Lugan Village said:

some of you folks need to give your head a shake re is JV worth keeping long term and at what salary...since he has been with the Grizzlies, he is averaging 18.4 points and 10.1 rebounds...if his minutes stay the same see no reason why these numbers wouldn't stay near the same.  If you look at the five centers above him in salary, this is what they make and their numbers;

Bismack Biyombo - 4.3 points / 4.7 rebounds - $17M

Tristain Thompson - 11.5 points / 11.1 rebounds - $17.4

De Andre Jordan - 11.1 points / 13.5 rebounds - $22.8

Rudy Gobert - 15.3 points / 12.9 rebounds - $23.4

Steven Adams - 14.6 points / 9.7 rebounds - $24.1M

Jonas Valanciunas - 18.4 points / 10.1 rebounds - $16.5M

oh yeah, and he is shooting 58% from the floor and near 80% from the foul line....I think we have bigger needs than getting rid of a 26 year old who is low maintenance and team first and win guy....

 

Just curious but where are these stats coming from? ESPN says Jonas is averaging 18.3 PPG and 9.1 RPG in eight games for Memphis but his season averages have never been that high. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Just curious but where are these stats coming from? ESPN says Jonas is averaging 18.3 PPG and 9.1 RPG in eight games for Memphis but his season averages have never been that high. 

My guess is those numbers were from before the Portland game, so his 17 points from that game aren't going to impact his ppg average much, but his 2 rebounds will hurt his average more  since he hasn't played that many games yet as a Grizz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

My guess is those numbers were from before the Portland game, so his 17 points from that game aren't going to impact his ppg average much, but his 2 rebounds will hurt his average more  since he hasn't played that many games yet as a Grizz.

Law of large numbers. People love to extrapolate from small sets of numbers. Perhaps his contract wouldn’t look so great if we took his seasonal averages or his career averages. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why he would opt in unless he just doesn't think he can get a multi year deal done at a rate he wants.  I mean, would YOU chose to be here if you didn't have to be to play basketball right now?  You'd have to be some kind of bear lover or sadist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like Jonas and think he will get more than $15 million. Part of me would like to keep him. But the smart play is to maintain flexibility while in rebuilding mode. Another massive long term deal on the books will not help. We aren't going to be a winning team for a few more seasons. We need cap space to take on other teams contracts in exchange for draft picks and your players. Chandler's albatross contract ends next summer.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; don't ruin it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I like Jonas and think he will get more than $15 million. Part of me would like to keep him. But the smart play is to maintain flexibility while in rebuilding mode. Another massive long term deal on the books will not help. We aren't going to be a winning team for a few more seasons. We need cap space to take on other teams contracts in exchange for draft picks and your players. Chandler's albatross contract ends next summer.  I can see the light at the end of the tunnel; don't ruin it.

This right. I don’t understand what these people are thinking. It’s like they want to be a mediocre team with no means to improve 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now