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Memphis Grizzlies vs San Antonio Spurs -2/12/19

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57 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Hopefully Kyrie Irving bolts to the new look Knicks and we clean Danny Ainge's clock.

Or, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram, the 13th pick and contracts from the Lakers.  

Yep, I was thinking this yesterday that if Kyrie went to NYK and Kemba stayed where he is Ainge would definitely come a'knockin'.

But we'd have to take Hayward or Horford - or try to flip them to someone else.

 

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4 hours ago, Everett said:

Yeah, but it wasn't due to JV mentally cowering or his play dropping off. 

A few things to note:

-You can only control your own play, and JV didn't lose the starting job because of any problem with his play. He was putting up career numbers in terms of efficiency this year, and I'm pretty sure had a better net rating than Ibaka with the starters. The Raptors coach also refuses to play two bigs at the same time.

-Ibaka is also a crybaby and would have caused more chemistry issues if he was benched (he was moping and had awful body language late last year and in the playoffs when he was losing minutes). So benching JV except for certain matchups was the "safest" route because JV is a team guy who only cares about winning. JV could also carry the scoring load for the bench in a way Ibaka couldn't. I am certain that if JV had stayed healthy and not been traded we would have seen the same trend as last year where JV slowly sees his minutes go up and Ibaka's go down. 

-JV was never thought of as the future of the franchise by literally anybody. I'm a big fan of his and pretty much everyone saw his top potential as something like a 3rd-best piece on a contender. We also have lacked pieces to build trades around because the Raptors have had to depend a lot on youth for depth, so guys are on small contracts except for guys like Lowry, Derozan, JV and Ibaka. And the way Ibaka has declined since his OKC days he has bad value at $20M+ a year that he's making. 

-Toronto does not leak. Period. Any time you've ever read a story about us shopping a player, it's another team or some agent leaking it, so always take it with a grain of salt. I'm sure JV's name came up in trade talks a lot over the years, but see my previous point as the reason why. 

Seems like a lot of what you’re saying is things only an team insider would know because you have such certainty in your statements like “I’m sure Ibaka was a crybaby”. This makes me think you could be involved in player relations because I’m flabbergasted about this rumor about him. Again, unless you’re employed by the Raptors organization I think you can only make opinionated points like “Toronto does not leak”. I don’t think Ibaka ever was “moping” because of minutes, I just think that is your admiration for Jonas that’s clouding your perspective. 

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1 hour ago, MickyFrickyGrizzyFan said:

Seems like a lot of what you’re saying is things only an team insider would know because you have such certainty in your statements like “I’m sure Ibaka was a crybaby”. This makes me think you could be involved in player relations because I’m flabbergasted about this rumor about him. Again, unless you’re employed by the Raptors organization I think you can only make opinionated points like “Toronto does not leak”. I don’t think Ibaka ever was “moping” because of minutes, I just think that is your admiration for Jonas that’s clouding your perspective. 

I am not an insider, but Ibaka's body language was visibly bad late last year. He was hanging his head, not talking to teammates for stretches, and then suddenly got a start in our last game of the postseason (ie. seemed like a conscious effort to make him happy). It's the kind of body language you don't usually see from guys on a team trying to be a contender and make a serious playoff run. Literally looked like he was crying in his towel during the playoffs in games we were winning

This kind of thing isn't new with Ibaka. He's not "toxic", but he seems like a bit of a diva with an ego. Reports were he was likely unhappy in OKC with his offensive role. He also did damage control saying he never made it known he was unhappy, but given his usage had gone down 2 years in a row, and then had a nice uptick in Orlando, it's believable enough. Link to an article discussing it from that time:

https://www.slamonline.com/archives/serge-ibaka-reportedly-unhappy-role-okc-prior-trade/

Then in Orlando, he seemed disinterested in playing there and basically just put up his numbers without really trying to gel with the team. No one really knows what happened there, but the guess is with Orlando not looking good early he focused on padding his stats in a contract year where he'd either be traded or go somewhere else in free agency.

I was actually a big Ibaka fan early in his career, but his decline has been sharp compared to his peak years in OKC. It seems to be mostly physical as he always misses a few games a year with "knee soreness/inflammation". Probably something like tendinitis, and as the season goes on he rarely is able to maintain any level of consistency. And while he's not a bad guy, he does seem very much like a guy who does not respond well at all when things aren't exactly the way he wants them to be. *Part of the hope with this Gasol deal is that since they know each other from national team summers, Ibaka will not mope if he's demoted. 

As for the leak, it is the truth. Toronto does not leak. They run a very tight ship and usually something only "leaks" when they are about to announce anyway and tend to do it through the local Toronto media first. So if you see a Toronto story and it's not coming from a Toronto media outlet that covers the Raptors daily, be extremely skeptical. It has been this way the whole time Masai Ujiri has been running things. 

These are just my opinions, but that doesn't mean they're not informed at all as someone who has watched the team and players closely. You do get a read on players' character on and off the court, and for the way the franchise operates. 

*EDIT:

Look, I'm obviously a JV fan, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here, but that doesn't make my perspective clouded by my admiration for him.

I'm also a Raptors fan who faced the same kind of comment during the Casey/DeMar years whenever I criticized our style of play or the fact that DeMar was an inherently flawed #1 option who we developed wrong. Apparently I was just "opinionated" for years.

You don't have to agree with my opinion. That also doesn't mean I'm wrong just because I'm not an "insider". 

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1 hour ago, MickyFrickyGrizzyFan said:

Seems like a lot of what you’re saying is things only an team insider would know because you have such certainty in your statements like “I’m sure Ibaka was a crybaby”. This makes me think you could be involved in player relations because I’m flabbergasted about this rumor about him. Again, unless you’re employed by the Raptors organization I think you can only make opinionated points like “Toronto does not leak”. I don’t think Ibaka ever was “moping” because of minutes, I just think that is your admiration for Jonas that’s clouding your perspective. 

OH and on the netrtg thing, I was taking that from a poster on the Raptors forum I use, and I trust this guy as he's a stat-geek who writes for one of the Raptors blogs. Quoting him and trusting he knows how to properly dig up his data:

"Could be! On the season the Serge starters are 8 points worse offensively and 8 points worse defensively than the JV lineup. Is your position that the difference in strength between their competition is 16 points per 100 possessions? More than that, I presume, if the position is that the Serge lineup has been so effective as to make a team hesitate to start Marc freaking Gasol after making a trade for him to take them over the top. 16 points per 100 possessions is a dramatic swing in quality of competition."

Feel free to try and find the data to prove that wrong. I'm not going to bother.

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27 minutes ago, Everett said:

I am not an insider, but Ibaka's body language was visibly bad late last year. He was hanging his head, not talking to teammates for stretches, and then suddenly got a start in our last game of the postseason (ie. seemed like a conscious effort to make him happy). It's the kind of body language you don't usually see from guys on a team trying to be a contender and make a serious playoff run. Literally looked like he was crying in his towel during the playoffs in games we were winning

This kind of thing isn't new with Ibaka. He's not "toxic", but he seems like a bit of a diva with an ego. Reports were he was likely unhappy in OKC with his offensive role. He also did damage control saying he never made it known he was unhappy, but given his usage had gone down 2 years in a row, and then had a nice uptick in Orlando, it's believable enough. Link to an article discussing it from that time:

https://www.slamonline.com/archives/serge-ibaka-reportedly-unhappy-role-okc-prior-trade/

Then in Orlando, he seemed disinterested in playing there and basically just put up his numbers without really trying to gel with the team. No one really knows what happened there, but the guess is with Orlando not looking good early he focused on padding his stats in a contract year where he'd either be traded or go somewhere else in free agency.

I was actually a big Ibaka fan early in his career, but his decline has been sharp compared to his peak years in OKC. It seems to be mostly physical as he always misses a few games a year with "knee soreness/inflammation". Probably something like tendinitis, and as the season goes on he rarely is able to maintain any level of consistency. And while he's not a bad guy, he does seem very much like a guy who does not respond well at all when things aren't exactly the way he wants them to be. *Part of the hope with this Gasol deal is that since they know each other from national team summers, Ibaka will not mope if he's demoted. 

As for the leak, it is the truth. Toronto does not leak. They run a very tight ship and usually something only "leaks" when they are about to announce anyway and tend to do it through the local Toronto media first. So if you see a Toronto story and it's not coming from a Toronto media outlet that covers the Raptors daily, be extremely skeptical. It has been this way the whole time Masai Ujiri has been running things. 

These are just my opinions, but that doesn't mean they're not informed at all as someone who has watched the team and players closely. You do get a read on players' character on and off the court, and for the way the franchise operates. 

*EDIT:

Look, I'm obviously a JV fan, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here, but that doesn't make my perspective clouded by my admiration for him.

I'm also a Raptors fan who faced the same kind of comment during the Casey/DeMar years whenever I criticized our style of play or the fact that DeMar was an inherently flawed #1 option who we developed wrong. Apparently I was just "opinionated" for years.

You don't have to agree with my opinion. That also doesn't mean I'm wrong just because I'm not an "insider". 

Honestly Marc can be a bit of a diva as well

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11 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

Honestly Marc can be a bit of a diva as well

So can lots of guys. It's only a problem when guys aren't happy with changes to their situation. Can definitely say the same about Lowry, but he's basically had the freedom to play how he wants since the first year we made the playoffs in this current streak of runs. 

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48 minutes ago, Everett said:

I am not an insider, but Ibaka's body language was visibly bad late last year. He was hanging his head, not talking to teammates for stretches, and then suddenly got a start in our last game of the postseason (ie. seemed like a conscious effort to make him happy). It's the kind of body language you don't usually see from guys on a team trying to be a contender and make a serious playoff run. Literally looked like he was crying in his towel during the playoffs in games we were winning

This kind of thing isn't new with Ibaka. He's not "toxic", but he seems like a bit of a diva with an ego. Reports were he was likely unhappy in OKC with his offensive role. He also did damage control saying he never made it known he was unhappy, but given his usage had gone down 2 years in a row, and then had a nice uptick in Orlando, it's believable enough. Link to an article discussing it from that time:

https://www.slamonline.com/archives/serge-ibaka-reportedly-unhappy-role-okc-prior-trade/

Then in Orlando, he seemed disinterested in playing there and basically just put up his numbers without really trying to gel with the team. No one really knows what happened there, but the guess is with Orlando not looking good early he focused on padding his stats in a contract year where he'd either be traded or go somewhere else in free agency.

I was actually a big Ibaka fan early in his career, but his decline has been sharp compared to his peak years in OKC. It seems to be mostly physical as he always misses a few games a year with "knee soreness/inflammation". Probably something like tendinitis, and as the season goes on he rarely is able to maintain any level of consistency. And while he's not a bad guy, he does seem very much like a guy who does not respond well at all when things aren't exactly the way he wants them to be. *Part of the hope with this Gasol deal is that since they know each other from national team summers, Ibaka will not mope if he's demoted. 

As for the leak, it is the truth. Toronto does not leak. They run a very tight ship and usually something only "leaks" when they are about to announce anyway and tend to do it through the local Toronto media first. So if you see a Toronto story and it's not coming from a Toronto media outlet that covers the Raptors daily, be extremely skeptical. It has been this way the whole time Masai Ujiri has been running things. 

These are just my opinions, but that doesn't mean they're not informed at all as someone who has watched the team and players closely. You do get a read on players' character on and off the court, and for the way the franchise operates. 

*EDIT:

Look, I'm obviously a JV fan, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here, but that doesn't make my perspective clouded by my admiration for him.

I'm also a Raptors fan who faced the same kind of comment during the Casey/DeMar years whenever I criticized our style of play or the fact that DeMar was an inherently flawed #1 option who we developed wrong. Apparently I was just "opinionated" for years.

You don't have to agree with my opinion. That also doesn't mean I'm wrong just because I'm not an "insider". 

It looks like you have some insatiable need to over analyze every detail of the life of an NBA player. I believe you could probably tell me when Ibaka cheats on his nutritional diet, jeez Louis. You stated ,“No one really knows what happened, I guess”, so how do you expect me to listen to an Orlando story? See, isn’t that a little contradictory for you to want me to trust some off-hand article about Ibaka. You said to me not to trust other news outlets that reported that the Raptors were shopping JV. Well, I can say the same for your Orlando article and the stat geek/Toronto writer you talk about. To me, you have nothing objective nor tangible to present. No offense, but I respect fanboys of players and their passion for hotly defending them. 

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2 hours ago, MickyFrickyGrizzyFan said:

It looks like you have some insatiable need to over analyze every detail of the life of an NBA player. I believe you could probably tell me when Ibaka cheats on his nutritional diet, jeez Louis. You stated ,“No one really knows what happened, I guess”, so how do you expect me to listen to an Orlando story? See, isn’t that a little contradictory for you to want me to trust some off-hand article about Ibaka. You said to me not to trust other news outlets that reported that the Raptors were shopping JV. Well, I can say the same for your Orlando article and the stat geek/Toronto writer you talk about. To me, you have nothing objective nor tangible to present. No offense, but I respect fanboys of players and their passion for hotly defending them. 

Ok, well lets get back to what started this whole exchange...

What is your source of information that seems to indicate JV mentally failed in some respect to "lose" his starting job? What evidence do you have of this? Articles? Stats? Insider information? 

Nothing? Thought so. Yet you dismiss my opinion of the situation, despite my following the team and player in question much more closely than you have. 

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10 hours ago, Everett said:

Ok, well lets get back to what started this whole exchange...

What is your source of information that seems to indicate JV mentally failed in some respect to "lose" his starting job? What evidence do you have of this? Articles? Stats? Insider information? 

Nothing? Thought so. Yet you dismiss my opinion of the situation, despite my following the team and player in question much more closely than you have. 

I was through when you called Ibaka a “crybaby”. How does the man suppose to defend hisself for something so slanderous lol. Your assumptions are plentiful, I never dismissed anything you said I just said I didn’t think it held any weight. Anyway, I believe the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Before they signed Ibaka, if I’m not mistaken JV was starting. Ibaka eventually starts over JV. If the coach thought he worked better with the starting line-up he wouldn’t have LOST his starting job. I guess the way I said it didn’t sound nice enough for you.

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