Ole Dirty Klondike

Various Trade Analyses: Not good

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4 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

They can grade it as bad as they want, the reality is there was no market for Marc.

And if you wanna believe Marc would have opted out, go ahead. Given everything he's said about his feelings, the shortest priced bet would be that he opted in. 

LOL.. Believe what you want to believe no one is trying to change your mind or direct anything towards you.

I agree there was no market for Marc and so does this writer and many others, that's why I and this writer said stand pat and don't do anything. If you know there's no market, why force a trade? They backed themselves into a corner. You somehow are trying to make it sound like we did something by getting rid of MArc because he would have picked up his option, do you realize that the options for JV and broken down CJ Miles are more than we would have paid Marc? ($26.3 mil vs $25.5 mil)

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13 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Nah it's too late now, we got no need or fit for Biz, Williams, Batum or Zeller

I'm looking at the free agent lists for next year. With all the big action to happen on Kyrie, KD, Kemba, Kawhi, Thompson, Middleton, Randle, Vucevic, maybe Butler, maybe Cousins, maybe DRose, factor in AD, there's going to be a lot of mid range pieces floating around that will be good.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20229609/nba-free-agent-2019-2020-team-team-lists

What is our cap space position if Holiday walks, JV, Miles stay, Bradley is waived, and others accounted for?  $15-20mil?

about the same shape we would have been in if temple,green,holiday walked

 

Miles,JV = Marc

Bradley gonna cost 2 M   and temple,green would have cost 0 

we did much of nothing , the clips,and tor are the teams that got more options with cap space

 

Tor dumped Miles who was awful with no future and Wright who they didnt want anyways and upgraded JV to Gasol

The clips took a hit on cap this year and will save 2m next year .

 

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22 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

LOL.. Believe what you want to believe no one is trying to change your mind or direct anything towards you.

I agree there was no market for Marc and so does this writer and many others, that's why I and this writer said stand pat and don't do anything. If you know there's no market, why force a trade? They backed themselves into a corner. You somehow are trying to make it sound like we did something by getting rid of MArc because he would have picked up his option, do you realize that the options for JV and broken down CJ Miles are more than we would have paid Marc? ($26.3 mil vs $25.5 mil)

Look what do you want me to tell you that hasn't already been said?

Trying to move smaller expirings theoretically is easier than big ones, the take back of bad contracts will be less. Pinning your hopes on Marc opting out I don't think is sound.

Anyway, what if JV turns out to be a reasonable fit? If so I can cop that for 80 more games

Edit:

AND we still got try and hope to move Chancre PegLeg before the next trade deadline

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Jonas is owed 17.6 m 

Miles is owed 8.7m

Wright 3.6M QO ? ?

Bradley 2M

 

Gasol  25.5 M 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

about the same shape we would have been in if temple,green,holiday walked

 

Miles,JV = Marc

Bradley gonna cost 2 M   and temple,green would have cost 0 

we did much of nothing , the clips,and tor are the teams that got more options with cap space

 

Tor dumped Miles who was awful with no future and Wright who they didnt want anyways and upgraded JV to Gasol

The clips took a hit on cap this year and will save 2m next year .

 

So it's obvious the prime motivator is to win enough games to convey the pick this year?

Anyway, I know this has been said before but Temple and Green had one of the worst 2-man net ratings in the NBA. JaM had a terrible net DRTG for a guy who is first off the bench and playing significant mins. Temple had one of the worst net ORTG in the NBA with a guy playing the mins he did. Those 2 + Mack were close to the worst rated 3-man line up in the NBA. With Marc swapped into that combo, it was still really bad.

I'm not defending the deal. That's why I haven't commented on it much. But to keep doing the same as what got us a 6-30 record, how does that help? Tanking for Zion? LOL.

As you posted earlier in your very good post outlining the Flippers moves and our drafts, you can't fix this bomb crater in one trade deadline.

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Standing Pat would have ensured we would be in the top 8 for a draft pick. The goal is to convey the pick this year. We’ll be terrible next year and the year after. The worst thing we can do is give up a potential #1 pick in 2021. Convey the pick now, trade Conley during draft (hopefully) and see if we can get a pick or 2 this year.

And of course fire Wallace

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20 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

So it's obvious the prime motivator is to win enough games to convey the pick this year?

Anyway, I know this has been said before but Temple and Green had one of the worst 2-man net ratings in the NBA. JaM had a terrible net DRTG for a guy who is first off the bench and playing significant mins. Temple had one of the worst net ORTG in the NBA with a guy playing the mins he did. Those 2 + Mack were close to the worst rated 3-man line up in the NBA. With Marc swapped into that combo, it was still really bad.

I'm not defending the deal. That's why I haven't commented on it much. But to keep doing the same as what got us a 6-30 record, how does that help? Tanking for Zion? LOL.

As you posted earlier in your very good post outlining the Flippers moves and our drafts, you can't fix this bomb crater in one trade deadline.

we did the same as we always do .we traded  two real assets for a "win now" piece and now we get to watch our other asset in holiday walk . our FO can't do what West has done because  they view every trade as final when its done , they have no vision to trade for the future and don';t view trades as building block going forward . 

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1 hour ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

we did the same as we always do .we traded  two real assets for a "win now" piece and now we get to watch our other asset in holiday walk . our FO can't do what West has done because  they view every trade as final when its done , they have no vision to trade for the future and don';t view trades as building block going forward . 

Yes you are correct about the overall strategy no disputing that.

The problem about the "assets" is they overvalued and overpaid for them, and mostly no one wanted them.

No one wanted JaM. They didn't want him 2years ago when we put out a QO for him, and then stupidly they decided to give him double the QO. Why? Either sign him for the 3.5 or whatever it was, or let him walk. 

Nobody wanted Temple. 

The only offer for both, and it was rumoured to be pulled either by them or us, was the Houston deal. Which is worse - injury broken Knight and 15mil on the books for another year + a pick likely to be 24-28 or an offensively challanged 12mil on the books now, but only 2 next year plus trade exception. The choices aren't great either way.

Sacramento dumped their refuse on us, and all of them will be out of the NBA after this season

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42 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Are we SURE that the 6-8 range in the draft is better next year or even in 2021?

If we don’t convey this year, it’ll most likely be 2021 and probably a top 3 pick. We’ll be losing a lot of games next couple seasons.

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9 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

We could have traded JaM and Temple for Allen crabbe and a 1st from the nets. I would have done that for sure. 

We probably couldn't because we'd be in luxury tax. Crabb is 18.5, that would put us about 2 mil over.

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1 hour ago, BigHunkALove said:

Yes you are correct about the overall strategy no disputing that.

The problem about the "assets" is they overvalued and overpaid for them, and mostly no one wanted them.

No one wanted JaM. They didn't want him 2years ago when we put out a QO for him, and then stupidly they decided to give him double the QO. Why? Either sign him for the 3.5 or whatever it was, or let him walk. 

Nobody wanted Temple. 

The only offer for both, and it was rumoured to be pulled either by them or us, was the Houston deal. Which is worse - injury broken Knight and 15mil on the books for another year + a pick likely to be 24-28 or an offensively challanged 12mil on the books now, but only 2 next year plus trade exception. The choices aren't great either way.

Sacramento dumped their refuse on us, and all of them will be out of the NBA after this season

because we dont ever offer exp contracts for salary + picks , Knight could be flipped just like temple/green/holiday/miles  but we don't do it cause we gotta "win now" and can't see past a single trade / season .

Cle turned korver into Burks a wiz 2021 2nd , utah 2020 2nd , Burks into a hou 1st. . so that 15m in cap space is a hou 1st wiz and utah 2nd..  they also send out baldwin and staukis who they got in the hood trade along with two 2nds. not bad !

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2 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

We could have traded JaM and Temple for Allen crabbe and a 1st from the nets. I would have done that for sure. 

Why would Brooklyn do that?  They're $8Mil under the tax, have $64Mil expiring, and you think they'll give a first for more expirings?  Chris Wallace doesn't work for the Nets.

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2 hours ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

because we dont ever offer exp contracts for salary + picks , Knight could be flipped just like temple/green/holiday/miles  but we don't do it cause we gotta "win now" and can't see past a single trade / season .

Cle turned korver into Burks a wiz 2021 2nd , utah 2020 2nd , Burks into a hou 1st. . so that 15m in cap space is a hou 1st wiz and utah 2nd..  they also send out baldwin and staukis who they got in the hood trade along with two 2nds. not bad !

Yep

And Burks was one I mentioned would be worth targeting in FA if he was affordable.

If we don't convey the pick this season, they need to look at putting almost everyone on the block again.

The Holiday one burns me, we smoked 2nds, now I can see the FO doubling his salary just to keep him so the giving up of the picks looks "worthwhile", when he's not just not the right fit

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3 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Yep

And Burks was one I mentioned would be worth targeting in FA if he was affordable.

If we don't convey the pick this season, they need to look at putting almost everyone on the block again.

The Holiday one burns me, we smoked 2nds, now I can see the FO doubling his salary just to keep him so the giving up of the picks looks "worthwhile", when he's not just not the right fit

That. That is what scares me too.

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37 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Why would Brooklyn do that?  They're $8Mil under the tax, have $64Mil expiring, and you think they'll give a first for more expirings?  Chris Wallace doesn't work for the Nets.

You act like I made up the trade, the offer was on the table. We didn't do it because we'd be too close tax for next year already. 

"The Nets and Grizzlies briefly discussed a swap of Allen Crabbe -- earning $19 million next season -- and Denver's first-rounder for the Garrett Temple/JaMychal Green pairing, sources say. Memphis, facing tax concerns, instead flipped those two for Avery Bradley's semi-expiring deal -- and no picks." - Zach Lowe, ESPN. 

Still can't figure out how we settled on not getting a pick back, even a 2nd rounder for Jam/Temple.

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44 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

You act like I made up the trade, the offer was on the table. We didn't do it because we'd be too close tax for next year already. 

"The Nets and Grizzlies briefly discussed a swap of Allen Crabbe -- earning $19 million next season -- and Denver's first-rounder for the Garrett Temple/JaMychal Green pairing, sources say. Memphis, facing tax concerns, instead flipped those two for Avery Bradley's semi-expiring deal -- and no picks." - Zach Lowe, ESPN. 

Still can't figure out how we settled on not getting a pick back, even a 2nd rounder for Jam/Temple.

Mainly because the league is currently overvaluing 1st round picks, like they are some magic dust. Why would the grizzlies want to sink 19 million into allen crabb just for the privilege of drafting a near second rounder, lol. Same goes for the Charlotte deal.

The grizzlies made the right move.

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10 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Look, obviously I can’t tell what would have happened if we had started testing the waters in December (let alone earlier) when it was clear the season was done or if we hadn’t broadcasted the fire sale. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you think this is the absolute best we could do, so be it.

I somehow can’t picture Masai Ujiri watching Marc getting an ovation and the subsequent failed Charlotte trade and then thinking “Aw shucks, poor guys, I better give them the fairest return for Gasol, they deserve a break.”

What the hell are you even talking about? 

Did you consider that your man crush, Ujiri, actually saw that the sixers are the bucks made moves that better their team? Do you know for a fact that the Charlotte trade was failed? It's also curious to me that you would rate the grizzlies "making available" Marc and Mike as a "fire sale" when the grizzlies didn't unload Mike at all.

Maybe you should go read your grizzlies cba database some more and perhaps you might realize that the millions of dollars that you are willing to spend for the grizzlies makes a difference when you yourself have to dole it out.

The fact is that the league has a fascination with overrated first round picks, and it appears you seem to be falling for that narrative, hook line and sinker. Glad you aren't our gm.

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Bradley’s contract could be useful in the offseason or on draft day for teams that want to clear up more cap space. The 2m guaranteed money is nothing, it’s only 600k more than the veteran minimum. I think this trade gave us flexibility and a trade chip later. And of course it helped set up the Marc Gasol trade and enable us to keep Bruno this season and beyond if we choose to.

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5 minutes ago, Grizball said:

Bradley’s contract could be useful in the offseason or on draft day for teams that want to clear up more cap space. The 2m guaranteed money is nothing, it’s only 600k more than the veteran minimum. I think this trade gave us flexibility and a trade chip later. And of course it helped set up the Marc Gasol trade and enable us to keep Bruno this season and beyond if we choose to.

exactly

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It would be very stupid to take on 24M + contracts for next season just to get a mediocre pick in the 2019 draft. JV and Wright are so much better than anyone CHA offered us. Bradley is still young and could get back to the level he once was with the C’s. All these nonsense talk would stop once the new players get on the court and we start winning games again.

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And more importantly, the most valuable part of these trades is to have a better chance to convey the pick to Boston this year. This is worth way more than any 2019 pick we would get from these teams.

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If all the “offer” reports are true, then I’m okay with what we got back in return. What just boils me up about the Grizzlies front office is that they want to go “all in” but don’t know how to go “all in.” Making the playoffs 7 years in a row was fun, the memories made with Z-Bo, TA, Mike, Andy Marc was great, but we didn’t win a WCF game with that group. 

Whenever our next time to compete for a title, I want our franchise to have a “June roster” and not a May roster. And the fan base is totally fine with us taking 5 steps back, to go 10 steps forward.

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