Ole Dirty Klondike

Various Trade Analyses: Not good

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

 

Crabbe is owed like 30m more and more years than Avery (2m guarantee next season).  He is 26y and Bradley is 28y so age isn't a factor.     Both coming off injuries but Avery 's peak play is much much better than Allen peak play.    Pick wouldn't be lottery.   So like i said Avery >>> Allen

Delon  27y combo guard that fills a position of need versus 32y Marvin who plays a position we don't need?   You gotta be just trolling here, right.  

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10 minutes ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

Gasol for BIZ,MKG, 1st

Temple , Green for Knight , Chriss 1st

 

If the Hornets trade had Monk on it, ok that was the best available, but since the last report said there was never a proposal with Monk on these deals. 

We got what was available. My prolemn is that CW is too passive and he always get what market offers. 

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Wow if that was really Charlottes final offer of Biyombo/Williams/pick then we came out with a better deal now. That draft pick would've given us options like Jaxson Hayes, Kevin Porter, Deandre Hunter, Bol Bol and maaaybe an outside chance at Garland. Not really worth taking on that much salary plus Biyombo and Marvin, who are bench players at best at this point. Atleast JV could potentially be a starter for the next year.

I feel alot better about no pick after hearing that.

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1 hour ago, Father Pat said:

We gave up 2 players and two 2nd round picks for a half year rental on Holiday, and only gained one 2nd round pick while losing Gasol, Jam, Temple, Mack and Casspi. That's the math that I see.

In defense of the front office, Casspi was lost already. He wasn't coming back after the meniscus tear. The surgery is a two month process for recovery and the season would be all but over by then. 

I'm not defending the rest however. 😅

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20 minutes ago, cdp said:

Wow if that was really Charlottes final offer of Biyombo/Williams/pick then we came out with a better deal now. That draft pick would've given us options like Jaxson Hayes, Kevin Porter, Deandre Hunter, Bol Bol and maaaybe an outside chance at Garland.

Those guys might be the best options at 6-8, too.

Although someone might fall to mid first round.

We might not know if we are chasing a top 8 pick until the end of the season.  Although we would have to finish with the 5th worst record in order to secure a top 8 pick.  Even if we finish at 6 three teams could pass us in the lottery and we convey the pick to Boston.

For us the draft is 4D Chess.  Chris Wallace needs to up his game -- or, at the very least he needs to start playing 4D Checkers.

Good trade deadline for us though.  Got rid of some moody, nearly washed-up dead wood and helped clear the roster for our front line of the future (maybe) aka Jaren, Rabb, and Bruno.

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I recommend people to listen to Sain’s and Cam’s latest podcast, it was like therapy for me. don’t always agree with them but it was a sound take on the whole thing 

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As some have said, we need these guys to come out and play hard for the next 3 months and win enough games to help convey the pick to Boston this year. If they aren't able to win enough to convey the pick to Boston this year, then the disaster of conveying a top 3/top 4/top 5 overall pick in 2021 looms.

 

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3 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I really doubt it, it would have to be really old.

Well how about gold for silver? 

If you try to sell a house but casually inform the potential buyers that you're in the middle of a divorce, your business has gone belly up and you need to undergo surgery in a week, I guarantee you you're not going to get the same offers that if you didn't.

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3 hours ago, GF#1 said:

He said that the morning of the deadline whenever he had seen the reports circulating that he would only want to play for 'x' number of teams. What else was he supposed to say? I would have said it too to make myself look better.

Behind the scenes though, of course he expressed a desire to play in certain places.

Are you suggesting that Mike is *gasps, clutches pearls* double-talking?

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1 hour ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

You see JV as nothing? Were you in favor of keeping Gasol and paying him 25M next year?

JV is nothing in two years, which is what matters.

And the alternative wasn't keeping Gasol. It was to quietly work on a trade before letting him and half the world know about it.

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3 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

JV is nothing in two years, which is what matters.

And the alternative wasn't keeping Gasol. It was to quietly work on a trade before letting him and half the world know about it.

In theory that was nice but the entire world already knew Gasol and Mike were on the block after we fell out of playoff contention.   That was discussed openly this past summer. 

I think the release was done to drum up interest after the market wasn't great.    I aint saying it was the right move but teams do this every season and still get decent haul.    Problem is we have always overvalued CORE4 too long.   I mean the excuse every year was , " they are worth more to us than they are to other teams".   Wasn't that the mantra to keep them?    Well turns out that was really true.   

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Knowing someone is on the block and that player cleaning out their locker and getting a standing ovation while in street clothes is two different galaxies.  That was a massive blunder.

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4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

In theory that was nice but the entire world already knew Gasol and Mike were on the block after we fell out of playoff contention.   That was discussed openly this past summer. 

I think the release was done to drum up interest after the market wasn't great.    I aint saying it was the right move but teams do this every season and still get decent haul.    Problem is we have always overvalued CORE4 too long.   I mean the excuse every year was , " they are worth more to us than they are to other teams".   Wasn't that the mantra to keep them?    Well turns out that was really true.   

It doesn't matter. Rumors and hearsay will always be there. But the moment you make something official you've automatically reduced your options. Everyone and their dog knew we could not keep Gasol at that point so we were lowballed (even more).

People keep putting up strawmen as if the alternatives were just to stand pat or to receive some mythical haul, when the alternative I wished for was simply for the FO to conduct a competent negotiation.

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4 minutes ago, Gradey said:

Knowing someone is on the block and that player cleaning out their locker and getting a standing ovation while in street clothes is two different galaxies.  That was a massive blunder.

Can't argue with you here.    But CHA offer wasn't good anyway that's the one thing that keeps me from being too upset. 

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Can't argue with you here.    But CHA offer wasn't good anyway that's the one thing that keeps me from being too upset. 

Me too, at first I believe CW screwed even more than he did, because I believed they had Monk + 1st on  the table and tryed to get more. 

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Can't argue with you here.    But CHA offer wasn't good anyway that's the one thing that keeps me from being too upset. 

Regardless of the results, it just irritates me to no end that the Grizzlies are continuing to operate like a totally incompetent, clown franchise.

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

JV is nothing in two years, which is what matters.

And the alternative wasn't keeping Gasol. It was to quietly work on a trade before letting him and half the world know about it. 

And what would Gasol have been? You think you could fool the other GMs? I think 1 thing is for sure, if JV stinks, they can sit him but the fans would've went crazy if they did that to Gasol. Who knows, Pera may have told him he would bring him back if he, Gasol, wants to come back.

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Hey guys, I'm a Raptors fan and I come in peace. Just wanted to let you guys know, you will be pleasantly surprised with Jonas. He is an extremely likeable and down to earth guy who seems incredibly chill off the court and incredibly intense on it.

 

Easily a top 10 rebounder in the league and top 10 scorer at center. If given the minutes and touches, no doubt in my mind he could put up 18 and 12 per 28 MPG or so. Every year his minutes go down, but his scoring and rebounding per game remain the same, which is quite incredible. 

 

His big limitations come on defense, but even there he's not as bad as some people might try to make you believe. He's not great at defending the pick and roll, but great at defending the post and is pretty good at defending the rim. He also spent most of his career playing next to DeMar DeRozan, who is attrocious on defense and this season when we actually got a couple of really good defenders in Kawhi and Green he didn't have that much of a chance to share the court together. Considering Grizzlies have some pretty good perimeter defenders, he should be better than in Toronto.

 

I really hope he does well for you guys, always wanted to see what would happen if my Raps gave him more free reign on offense, since he's so **** efficient. The best thing about him though is that he's very team oriented, so if there's need, he's going to play 30+ minutes taking lots of shots, but he's also willing to come off the bench. He's a great locker room guy, so would expect him to be a good person to keep around the young guys on the team. Definitely shouldn't worry about him not being motivated. And if you guys by any chance make the playoffs while he's on your team... Let's just say we Raps fans used to wait for playoff Jonas to show up, since that was a completely different beast and would turn into an all star. He steps up during big games.

 

Delon is kinda hit and miss. I think that he was overrated by a lot of Raps fans. He's a good backup PG, but can't really see him as a starter in the league. Can hit the spot up three, can play both PG and SG, good defensively, pretty good in transition. Should be a good rotation player, but don't think anything more than that. Definitely don't think he can replace Conley in the starting PG spot once you trade / let him go.

 

CJ Miles has been attrocious this season. Last season he would hit some threes at least, but this season he has been useless, and let me tell you, Raps are pretty happy about getting off the payroll. Seems like a nice guy and all, should be good in the locker room, but useless on the court. 

 

I understand why the Raps made this trade, but I don't know if in the long run it will be a good trade for us. I assume Marc will look more interested in the games due to potentially getting to the finals this year, but he is also 34. This year is all or nothing for us. If we don't get to the finals at least, we lose Kawhi, and if we do that, there will be a huge firesale on everyone for a rebuild. If we manage to keep Kawhi, then this trade is going to be looked at as a good trade for us, even though Jonas will be better than Marc in a year or two, if not already.

 

Hope for all the best to your team and I'll definitely keep a close eye on your games, especially since you now have Jonas and Bruno.

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Thanks Raptors fan great post...if Jonas can rebound like everyone says he does he could be a great fit wit JJJ/Rabb  who both struggle at rebounding.

Now CJ Miles contract is what ruins the trade I don't even want to see him play.

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6 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

And what would Gasol have been? You think you could fool the other GMs?

Am I still writing in English? Am I so obtuse that I can't make my point across? I can't be the only one here who has taken part in negotiations. This is Negotiation 101.

I've literally said it's not about keeping Gasol or trying to fleece the other GMs. It's about keeping your cards close to your vest so you can come out with the best possible outcome in the negotiation, even if it's just turning a 2nd round pick into a protected 1st or getting a slightly better young prospect. We didn't do that and we paid for it because all the other teams knew we could not afford not trading Marc.

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7 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Am I still writing in English? Am I so obtuse that I can't make my point across? I can't be the only one here who has taken part in negotiations. This is Negotiation 101.

I've literally said it's not about keeping Gasol or trying to fleece the other GMs. It's about keeping your cards close to your vest so you can come out with the best possible outcome in the negotiation, even if it's just turning a 2nd round pick into a protected 1st or getting a slightly better young prospect. We didn't do that and we paid for it because all the other teams knew we could not afford not trading Marc.

And on top of announcing that we were shopping Marc, we botched a trade TWO DAYS EARLIER (than the Raptors trade) to trade him to the Hornets. Didn't play, cleaned his locker out, left the arena, etc. Everyone and their brother knew there was absolutely no way that we could keep him on board after all of that. Any form of leverage the Grizzlies might have had went completely out the window.

It's just continuous, utter stupidity.

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Just look at it this way, if JV doesn't resign with the Grizz they will have 83+M coming off the books, you can buy a slew of 2s then plus pay 3 guys around 20M a piece to go with 3J. I don't think I would have given a 1 for Gasol even without what had occured and teams have people looking all the time, especially if they are interested in a player.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Crabbe is owed like 30m more and more years than Avery (2m guarantee next season).  He is 26y and Bradley is 28y so age isn't a factor.     Both coming off injuries but Avery 's peak play is much much better than Allen peak play.    Pick wouldn't be lottery.   So like i said Avery >>> Allen

Delon  27y combo guard that fills a position of need versus 32y Marvin who plays a position we don't need?   You gotta be just trolling here, right.  

I gotta agree with you here. Can't you find a picture of JV?

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10 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

Thanks Raptors fan great post...if Jonas can rebound like everyone says he does he could be a great fit wit JJJ/Rabb  who both struggle at rebounding.

Now CJ Miles contract is what ruins the trade I don't even want to see him play.

Jonas is extremely good at rebounding. Unstoppable in some instances. Great both on the defensive and offensive glass. Also plays really physical bully ball, so no need to worry about him grabbing empty rebounds ala DeAndre Jordan. Of all players who average at least 6 RPG, Jonas ranks 6th in the entire league in contested rebound percentage at 49.1%. DeAndre Jordan for example has a contested rebound percentage of 35.1% and Marc Gasol percentage is at 36.7%. 

 

That's the big thing that worries me the most as a Raps fan, we weren't a great rebounding team to begin with, with Jonas being clearly the best rebounder on the team, and now we exchanged him for Gasol, who never really was known as a good rebounder for his position.

 

Looking at the stats, it does seem that JJJ and Jonas should be able to compliment each other on the court pretty well. Jonas will mask the rebounding problems, JJJ will stretch the floor for Jonas to do work inside.

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5 minutes ago, Backseatboss said:

Jonas is extremely good at rebounding. Unstoppable in some instances. Great both on the defensive and offensive glass. Also plays really physical bully ball, so no need to worry about him grabbing empty rebounds ala DeAndre Jordan. Of all players who average at least 6 RPG, Jonas ranks 6th in the entire league in contested rebound percentage at 49.1%. DeAndre Jordan for example has a contested rebound percentage of 35.1% and Marc Gasol percentage is at 36.7%. 

 

That's the big thing that worries me the most as a Raps fan, we weren't a great rebounding team to begin with, with Jonas being clearly the best rebounder on the team, and now we exchanged him for Gasol, who never really was known as a good rebounder for his position.

 

Looking at the stats, it does seem that JJJ and Jonas should be able to compliment each other on the court pretty well. Jonas will mask the rebounding problems, JJJ will stretch the floor for Jonas to do work inside.

Thanks for the info.  I knew Jonas was a good rebounder; I think he had a 20 rebound game against us once.

As for Marc, Toronto should be a good fit for him.  Similar to his brother Pau, he is NOT a good 1st option, but better as a 3rd or 4th.  And the fact that the pressure to win is really on other guys' shoulders; that alone will make him better.

I'll probably be rooting for you guys in the playoffs.

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