Ole Dirty Klondike

Various Trade Analyses: Not good

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3 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You keep saying this but you have no proof other than a debuked report by conely himself.

I'm not going to let you keep feeding a myth

If you have other proof please share

Dude do you know who Mike's agent is?     His dad.    Agents are usually the ones that leak info to press.    I have no problem with him trying to position his trade to his advantage.  I would't want to go to Utah either. 


Guess you think the AD stuff is rumors too. 

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34 minutes ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

our FO needs to come to terms that you gotta hoard assets , trading tyreke and not going after holiday could have put us in the running for mirotic and and maybe Tobias if we had our picks .  you can do this while winning you don't have to blow everything up like Hinkie and trot out garbage for a few years if you dont redshirt your youngsters ,  

Yep. Don't blow your wad on minor transactions. Don't take underwhelming players from bad teams too.

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Just now, KyleB said:

It is strange to me that they would want Gasol when it appears that they had decided JV was not a good fit for what they wanted to do and had severely cut back his minutes even before he was injured. Gasol's game and JV's game are very similar. Is Gasol a better fit for them at center than Ibaka?

i think tor just didnt want JV, Miles is mostly trash and Wright had no future with them so they can take a shot and have a bit more flexibility 

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3 minutes ago, KyleB said:

It is strange to me that they would want Gasol when it appears that they had decided JV was not a good fit for what they wanted to do and had severely cut back his minutes even before he was injured. Gasol's game and JV's game are very similar. Is Gasol a better fit for them at center than Ibaka?

It is strange but Gasol was always a "win now" proposition for any team based on his reputation.  Playoff teams value battle-tested veterans.   Gasol stretching his range out to 3pt line and being a real contributor for playoff teams was the difference.  

TOR has a better set up for to maximize Gasol's skillset.    First off he doesn't have to be a primary or secondary option that alone can help Marc.   Plus he can be a secondary facilitator and create his own shot.  

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10 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Dude do you know who Mike's agent is?     His dad.    Agents are usually the ones that leak info to press.    I have no problem with him trying to position his trade to his advantage.  I would't want to go to Utah either. 


Guess you think the AD stuff is rumors too. 

Do you know how many false reports were released this year?

For all we know that could have come from Detroit themselves.

And mike clearly told everybody that hed play for anybody before the deadline was over

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2 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

The Athletic: The Grizzlies waited, finally dealt Gasol (and others), and the results were less than optimal

 

Did you ever wait until the last minute to do a school project? You know, the one that was assigned to you months prior and you completely disregarded until the night before it was due? Do you remember how it turned out? Probably not all that well, right?

And so it went for the Grizzlies at the trade deadline.

Seemingly scrambling throughout the process, reactive rather than proactive, they ended up with what could be regarded as just about the bare minimum for what they gave up, without a clear direction as to where they’re now headed.

The headliner

Memphis gets:

  • Delon Wright
  • C.J. Miles
  • Jonas Valanciunas
  • 2024 Raptors second-round draft pick

Toronto gets:

  • Marc Gasol

Let’s start with some real talk: There was no way the Grizzlies could have kept Gasol after what happened Tuesday night. Gasol cleaned out his locker, emptied the contents into a black garbage bag and left at halftime after an emotional first-half cameo on the bench. Not a chance in hell he was staying. Especially not after the way the Tyreke Evans non-trade fiasco unfolded last year. Gasol had made peace with the situation and was ready to go. And yet — there weren’t a lot of suitors for Gasol, either. His age, his uncertain contract situation and a lackluster past two months of play all combined to diminish the market for what was once an All-NBA player.

But the Grizzlies painted themselves into a corner, removing much of the leverage they could have had in negotiations had they acted more decisively in trading Gasol weeks (or even seasons) ago. This outcome was coming, in all likelihood, and the Grizzlies chose to have the situation control them rather than vice versa. That was a factor in how this move went down, as was the sloppy and haphazard team communication both internally and externally.

The Grizzlies had protracted negotiations with Charlotte about Gasol, the details of which became rather more public than Grizzlies officials would have liked. And not for the first time this year. Gasol was asked to sit prior to the Grizzlies’ game on Tuesday, which was, in and of itself, not especially notable. However, the fact that he had cleaned out his locker was an indicator he had been given the impression things had moved toward an imminent deal. He was expecting a Charlotte deal to get done.

All of this, apparently, was news to the Hornets. Though several of their players had been heavily rumored to be in Gasol trade talks, none of them were held out Tuesday night (or Wednesday night, for that matter), an indicator that the Hornets didn’t see those talks as having gone nearly as far as the Grizzlies did. There remained significant haggling to be done over issues: Which young player or players would be sent to Memphis, which long-term contracts would serve as makeweights and what would the protections be on any picks in the deal?

In the end, on Thursday morning, as the clock ticked closer to the deadline, something had to be done. With no traction happening in the Charlotte deal, and with little other interest, the Grizzlies had to start thinking smaller. Thoughts of multiple first-round picks, or even one first-round pick, drifted away, replaced by sheer pragmatism and a need to get something. Doing nothing was not an option.

That’s where Toronto came in. Not so much Mr. Right as Mr. Right Now. An opportunistic pounce by the Raptors sees them upgrade their center position for a reasonable price.

Delon Wright is not exactly the “young prospect” that the Grizzlies might have hoped to get in any Gasol deal. Wright will turn 27 at the end of April and will have the chance to be a restricted free agent. Wright shoots 31 percent from 3 (in non-garbage time minutes, per Cleaning the Glass); like Justin Holiday, he’s a corner-3 threat but poor from every other spot. Here’s Wright’s shot chart from this season (per Synergy):

The Grizzlies are the second-worst jump shooting team in the NBA at 34.5 percent, yet Wright shoots an even-lower 29.5 percent as a jump shooter. His per-possession numbers have fallen off this season; perhaps a change of scenery will help him improve.

Wright is good in transition, can draw fouls at a high rate, and is an active defender. He’s a potentially good rotation player but not exactly a prospect; he’s seven and a half years older than Jaren Jackson Jr., and the Grizzlies will have to figure out his contract situation in restricted free agency.

Valanciunas is a few months younger than Wright and could have a positive impact if all goes well. Valanciunas was set to return for the Raptors on Thursday evening from a thumb injury that had kept him out for 24 games. He should be healthy and ready to report to a Grizzlies team that will use him as a direct replacement for Gasol. He can be an excellent shooter, especially for his position. He mirrors Gasol in that regard, though his rebounding should be better than Gasol’s typically has been. He’s not the defender Gasol is (or should I say can be; Gasol’s impact there had been waning), but he’s not bad, either.

He’s a strong roll man in pick-and-roll sets, which should enable him to build chemistry with Mike Conley. Depending on how the team chooses to use him, there’s a good chance Valanciunas can find a role and a nice fit in Memphis, which would really help this trade improve in value.

As for Miles, the outlook is more pessimistic. Miles has not played well this year. His shooting numbers have fallen in each of the past two seasons. In effective field goal percentage, he went from the 88th percentile league-wide two seasons ago to 50th last year to 19th this season. His free throw shooting has plummeted, too. He’s a solid veteran presence but, at age 31, the worry is that his best days are behind him. Maybe he can find a spark in the Bluff City.

The 2024 second-round pick might end up being pretty good, as the Raptors will likely have cycled through their championship aspirations by then. It’s a long way away.

The contracts for the incoming players could be a problem, too. Wright’s restricted free agency should be no major issue, but Miles and Valanciunas both have player options for next season (Miles for $8.7 million, Valanciunas for $17.6 million). Would the Grizzlies want Valanciunas to opt in? Would they be looking to secure a more cap-friendly extension? It likely depends on his fit, his performance and the other potential options on the free-agent center market this summer. But it’s ultimately up to him.

More worryingly, the same is true of Miles, who looked likely not to opt in to his final season last summer, but whose lackluster season might have diminished the market for his services. If he opts in, that dents the Grizzlies’ cap number without them receiving extra compensation for it. The Grizzlies should feel free to take on bad salaries but should be paid for the service. In this case, should Miles opt in, that won’t happen.

If Wright turns into a player and forms part of the core group around Jackson, the deal will look much better. If Valanciunas plays to his highest potential, that would help. But the return for a player of Gasol’s level is quite lackluster, a reality check on the price of waiting too long to turn the page.

One last note on this deal — there will be time for proper eulogies of Gasol’s time in Memphis, but to sum it up quickly: He is the most skilled player to play for the Grizzlies. His three All-Star Game appearances, his Defensive Player of the Year award in the magical 2012-13 season, his miraculous recovery from an injury that has ended the careers of several other players, all of it was truly special. He chose to raise his family in Memphis and has become a part of the community off the court as well, with extensive charitable contributions and longtime involvement with helping kids at the world-renowned St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. Whether it was Marc or his brother, Pau, there has never been a Grizzlies game played in Memphis without a Gasol on the roster. Until now.

The head-scratcher

Memphis gets:

  • Avery Bradley

L.A. Clippers get:

  • Garrett Temple
  • JaMychal Green

The Grizzlies traded away two veteran expiring contracts in Green and Temple for one veteran non-expiring contract in Bradley. Sure, Bradley’s nearly $13 million salary is only partially guaranteed for $2 million, but that still necessitates the Grizzlies taking on salary for next season. And, since only the non-guaranteed portion of salary can be used for matching purposes in trades, the Grizzlies can’t reap the benefit of trading Bradley to a team looking to clear space. And for what? To what end was this service done?

No picks, not even a second-rounder involved in this trade. Nothing. Just the players. The Grizzlies squeeze a couple of million off the payroll this season, but that’s irrelevant from a competitive standpoint, and from a tax standpoint, too. The Grizzlies created a trade exception in the amount of Temple’s $8 million in the mechanics of the deal, which might come in handy down the line (it expires in one year’s time).

Bradley is a defensive-minded bulldog of a player, a bit undersized but with a lot of passion for stopping opponents. He’s not a great offensive player at all. Certainly, his attitude would fit right into the typical archetype of the Grit and Grind Grizzlies, but those days are done, and Bradley will need to provide offense to be of major on-court value.

This deal doesn’t make much sense. Surely there was a way, even if it meant taking on more bad money, to get some sort of draft pick from this move. Not getting that makes this pretty awful value for the Grizzlies.

The little trade that could

Memphis gets:

  • Tyler Dorsey

Atlanta gets:

  • Shelvin Mack

This has to be the smallest trade on deadline day. And one that signals the end of the Shelvin Mack Era in Memphis. Well, era is a bit strong, but what a fun three weeks or so, right? Followed, sadly, by declining performances that were increasingly hard to watch. Dorsey has not been good at all for the Hawks, but he’s only 22 and was teammates at Oregon with Dillon Brooks, so that’s something. Of all the trades the Grizzlies have ever done, this is certainly one of them.

Overall, to get a grand total of one second-round pick, to be conveyed in five years’ time, and to get no young prospects of note, while attempting to turn the page and build around 19-year-old Jackson is bizarre. The returns themselves were below par, even more so when considered in a bigger team-building sense. The Grizzlies started this process with two impact players under 23; they’ll end it with that same number. What did the events of Thursday do to help bolster the future core of the team?

When you wait until the last minute and you don’t have a long-term plan for what you want to accomplish, you can’t be surprised when you end up with a failing grade.

They don't give out  new Cadillacs when you trade in old Chevrolets. 

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1 hour ago, costarica2 said:

Just like the article said we backed or selfs into a corner .Gasol was going to walk no one wanted him Charlote was playing hard to get and we ran out of time.

CJ Miles and Bradley are the main issue for me their contracts especially .

Gasol would have never walked if there hadn't been so many hands in his back.

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Just now, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

They don't give out  new Cadillacs when you trade in old Chevrolets. 

sometimes they do .

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2 hours ago, BAMAFREAK said:

We are rebuilding. We did absolutely nothing to help in a rebuild. Obtained no assets that help beyond next year, except a 2025 second rounder. I honestly believe someone from off the street could’ve gotten a better return for what was traded then we did yesterday. It’s baffling and will set us back, I really don’t see the Grizz being competitive while JJJ is on his rookie deal

I wouldn't say the Grizz are rebuilding, they held their own last night against a good team for half a game with 2/3 rd of a team. Adams will not push JV around and he has been in the league long enough that he will probably get calls 3J wouldn"t

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30 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Dude do you know who Mike's agent is?     His dad.    Agents are usually the ones that leak info to press.    I have no problem with him trying to position his trade to his advantage.  I would't want to go to Utah either. 


Guess you think the AD stuff is rumors too. 

Have you talked to his father and heard what he has to say or do you believe that because you know that Mike is represented by his father that makes everything you say fact? 

I talked to Mike Sr last week at one of the games and he said Mike didn't want to go to Utah. Mike came out the next day and flatly denied it. So who knows what the truth is anyway? 

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Chris Herrington said that it basically came down to a draft pick and a lot more salary from charlotte or better contracts and no draft picks from Toronto and financial flexibility going forward.

 

"The other serious option appears to have been with Charlotte, whose final offer was apparently their 2019 first round pick (likely in the late teens) and a future second-round pick, along with Bismack Biyombo and Marvin Williams, who would have been owed a combined $32 million next season."

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9 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

Chris Herrington said that it basically came down to a draft pick and a lot more salary from charlotte or better contracts and no draft picks from Toronto and financial flexibility going forward.

 

"The other serious option appears to have been with Charlotte, whose final offer was apparently their 2019 first round pick (likely in the late teens) and a future second-round pick, along with Bismack Biyombo and Marvin Williams, who would have been owed a combined $32 million next season."

I was going to post something along the lines of the reason the grizzlies most likely didn't get a lot of good first-round and second-round picks was because they didn't want to take on a lot of salary.

So this makes complete sense to me.

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29 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

It is strange but Gasol was always a "win now" proposition for any team based on his reputation.  Playoff teams value battle-tested veterans.   Gasol stretching his range out to 3pt line and being a real contributor for playoff teams was the difference.  

TOR has a better set up for to maximize Gasol's skillset.    First off he doesn't have to be a primary or secondary option that alone can help Marc.   Plus he can be a secondary facilitator and create his own shot.  

Let's be real here, he created about as many TOs trying to create a shot. He would've been  much more effective if he had faked passes and shot the ball more, I don't know if he ever did that. The Grizz need to fake 3s to draw fouls, that would slow down guys coming out so fast to contest 3s. I saw Stackhouse pull a couple of guys aside last night and talk to them, I like that.

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32 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

And mike clearly told everybody that hed play for anybody before the deadline was over

He said that the morning of the deadline whenever he had seen the reports circulating that he would only want to play for 'x' number of teams. What else was he supposed to say? I would have said it too to make myself look better.

Behind the scenes though, of course he expressed a desire to play in certain places.

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Another important point Herrington mentioned is that this is a pretty strong buyout market this year (Carmelo, Matthews, ZBo, etc) and playoff teams were going to just wait and pick up players for cheaper (minimum salary with no draft picks sent out).

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6 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

Chris Herrington said that it basically came down to a draft pick and a lot more salary from charlotte or better contracts and no draft picks from Toronto and financial flexibility going forward.

 

"The other serious option appears to have been with Charlotte, whose final offer was apparently their 2019 first round pick (likely in the late teens) and a future second-round pick, along with Bismack Biyombo and Marvin Williams, who would have been owed a combined $32 million next season."

That's worse than i thought.   He also said the buyout market killed Temple and JaM value too.   Any trade for them individually would've required going into lux tax.    BKN offered pick + Allen Crabbe for them.   Yuck.   Monk and Bridges were never on the table.    We wouldn't have been able to keep Bruno under those conditions.   

Delon>>>Marvin Williams

JonasV >>> Biz

Avery >> Crabbe 

Picks are nice on paper but are non-lottery in a weak draft.  

 

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1 hour ago, BAMAFREAK said:

Further proof they need to go. So they are pushing back a rebuild just to cover their *** from the Green trade. Not to mention, we will probably end up at 7 or 8 this year which is worst case scenario. They should’ve traded for future assets and bottomed out this and next year. Then you have JJJ, two top 5 or so picks, and whatever assets you got from trades. 2021 you are going all out to build and win and that unprotected is dangerous, but you would also have cap room to sign some bets to fill in. 

But they didn’t. And now we will have absolutely nothing outside of JJJ next year, nothing. Very little chance of being competitive, and even worse, nobody to excite the city outside of JJJ who will want out ASAP. 

I wouldn't be so sure 3J wants out, he's going to be the man in Memphis, he might be just another player somewhere else. 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

This is clearly the best plan of action and that should be obvious. Getting a guy just as good as Gasol but 7 years younger is fine for that short term goal. That trumps taking some young garbage "asset" like Malik Monk if you end up keeping the 2021 pick because thats the young asset this team needs to protect right now.

I doubt that the Grizz are worse off now than if they had finished off the year with what they had.

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12 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

He said that the morning of the deadline whenever he had seen the reports circulating that he would only want to play for 'x' number of teams. What else was he supposed to say? I would have said it too to make myself look better.

Behind the scenes though, of course he expressed a desire to play in certain places.

You must fundamentally believe that every report that comes out is truth. 

If that's the case I can't argue with you then. Conley in your mind is guilty by association

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3 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You must fundamentally believe that every report that comes out is truth. 

If that's the case I can't argue with you then. Conley in your mind is guilty by association

Difference is - I don't think it makes Mike a bad person for leaking it (if he did).  I'd do the same thing if in his shoes. 

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20 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I really doubt it, it would have to be really old.

Well how about gold for silver? 

well phi traded Elfred for Saric , Shamet , Herngomez , signed Covington from the D-league  which was a large part of getting Butler and  , then they traded MCW for PHX pick that was traded and used in the harris deal . Maybe you can CW cant turn a chevy into a Caddy but some GM's can

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1 hour ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

our FO needs to come to terms that you gotta hoard assets , trading tyreke and not going after holiday could have put us in the running for mirotic and and maybe Tobias if we had our picks .  you can do this while winning you don't have to blow everything up like Hinkie and trot out garbage for a few years if you dont redshirt your youngsters ,  

Why wasn't you screaming, Tobias and Mirotic and going to get traded before they did all that? Or did your crystal ball only start working after they were traded? Memphis couldn't match what Philly gave the Clips for Harris and I don't see NO giving up Mirotic for anything the Grizz had.

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Just now, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Why wasn't you screaming, Tobias and Mirotic and going to get traded before they did all that? Or did your crystal ball only start working after they were traded? Memphis couldn't match what Philly gave the Clips for Harris and I don't see NO giving up Mirotic for anything the Grizz had.

because we trade all our picks ,  you can dig my post and find i hate the wiff on tyreke and trding for holiday if ya want to  , i've hated the way we let guys walk and dont value 2nds/1sat for years this is nothing new , gotta save picks for something good , i've been screaming this since KK  and Ed DAvis walked 

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11 minutes ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

well phi traded Elfred for Saric , Shamet , Herngomez , signed Covington from the D-league  which was a large part of getting Butler and  , then they traded MCW for PHX pick that was traded and used in the harris deal . Maybe you can CW cant turn a chevy into a Caddy but some GM's can

Philly hasn't been playing so hot after that trade, have they?

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