Kevin B Moses

The key to the grizzlies winning: be the puncher, not the punchee

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There's an idea about the grizzlies losing streak is that they have one bad quarter and everything goes to ****. However, I'm of the opinion that the grizzlies losing ways begins and ends with the fact that they aren't punching people in the mouth.

Sure the grizzlies have many quarters were they end up tied or a little bit ahead or a little bit behind and they call it a "good" quarter, but the fact is that their opponent, in those quarters, are WAY TOO COMFORTABLE. The grizzlies are making them desperate, or frazzled.

Last night, most of the reason the grizzlies won so easily is due to the fact that the grizzlies harassed San Antonio to no end. And when your opponent is harassed like that they make mistakes, which is what happened a lot of the times.

The grizzlies didn't just keep pace with the spurs, they punched them in the face, several times, and got San Antonio so frazzled they didn't know which way was up.

Every team in the league can play amazing basketball when they are not under duress. The bad teams though will wilt under duress. The good teams punch and punch again. And like Tyson says, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

The warriors use the 3 point shot to punch people in the mouth and demoralize their opponent. The grizzlies use defense to punch people in the mouth and demoralize their opponent.

This is not about Xs and Os anymore. It's not about how many 3 point shooters we have. Or how many we make. And maybe it never has been. It's about punching people in the mouth and the grizzlies need to start doing some punching.  

Last night, Marc did some punching of his own and you see the outcome.

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Something I noticed last night was there were some differences in how we played defense at the top.  The bigs were out further than we have been seeing them.  I hope that helps eliminate the gaping holes that are being cut in our initial defensive actions which result in 2 passes from an open 3 pointer. 

It looked to me like the guys would come out playing hard early but then adjustments would be made to how we are defending and we would not answer the adjustments.  That was leading to a lot of easy 3 point baskets and the guys confidence eroded and the team went to crap.  Kinda funny how we keep saying "what the hell is wrong with the Grizz in the 3rd".  Well, watch what is happening in those games.  Adjustments are being made and the Grizz are not handling them well neither on the court or between their ears.

 

Oh sorry I mean to say I 100% agree with you KBM- got to be aggressive!

 

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I remember JB Bickerstaff saying that how do you react when teams make runs. 

I think that's a bad mindset you need to be the one making the runs. You need to be trying to punch people in the mouth.

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Jeff Green is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Wizards are 6-1 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Jeff Green shows up, his team often wins.

Marc Gasol is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Grizzlies are 11-3 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Marc Gasol shows up, his team often wins.

What do most people think of Jeff Green? What do most people think of Marc Gasol? Why is it different? Good leaders always show up. At least Jeff Green doesn't pretend to be a leader.

I'm glad Marc did good last night, and I'm glad that the Grizzlies won. The thing is, how many times have we seen this before? At what point does Marc showing up become less of a reason to celebrate and more of a middle finger to the fans?

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7 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Jeff Green is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Wizards are 6-1 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Jeff Green shows up, his team often wins.

Marc Gasol is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Grizzlies are 11-3 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Marc Gasol shows up, his team often wins.

What do most people think of Jeff Green? What do most people think of Marc Gasol? Why is it different? Good leaders always show up. At least Jeff Green doesn't pretend to be a leader.

I'm glad Marc did good last night, and I'm glad that the Grizzlies won. The thing is, how many times have we seen this before? At what point does Marc showing up become less of a reason to celebrate and more of a middle finger to the fans?

Marc generally shows well against Pau.

We need more 28 more Gasol brothers scattered throughout the NBA, and that gets this team is in the playoffs.

 

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2 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Jeff Green is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Wizards are 6-1 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Jeff Green shows up, his team often wins.

Marc Gasol is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Grizzlies are 11-3 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Marc Gasol shows up, his team often wins.

What do most people think of Jeff Green? What do most people think of Marc Gasol? Why is it different? Good leaders always show up. At least Jeff Green doesn't pretend to be a leader.

I'm glad Marc did good last night, and I'm glad that the Grizzlies won. The thing is, how many times have we seen this before? At what point does Marc showing up become less of a reason to celebrate and more of a middle finger to the fans?

Dang Checkmate!   Related note;  Wiggins dropped 40pts  10rbs last night and apparently has the same exact problem.   In the same vein neither of those players are ever credited with being High BBIQ guys either but somehow Marc always gets that benefit. 

I have never thought of it that way but spot on.   Herrington pointed out in interview this morning that Gasol apparently has to play ANGRY in order to be his best and he is correct.    LH used to purposely tick him off all the time to get his best out of him and also usually shows up against guys that are media darlings that play his position too (Jokic, Nurkic, Embiid, Pau, etc).   That's ridiculous and does show that he lacks "heart".     

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Dang Checkmate!   Related note;  Wiggins dropped 40pts  10rbs last night and apparently has the same exact problem.   In the same vein neither of those players are ever credited with being High BBIQ guys either but somehow Marc always gets that benefit. 

I have never thought of it that way but spot on.   Herrington pointed out in interview this morning that Gasol apparently has to play ANGRY in order to be his best and he is correct.    LH used to purposely tick him off all the time to get his best out of him and also usually shows up against guys that are media darlings that play his position too (Jokic, Nurkic, Embiid, Pau, etc).   That's ridiculous and does show that he lacks "heart".     

Marc employees the bend don't break philosophy. And what he needs to do is to employ the Mike Tyson headhunter philosophy.

In other words he's got to be the puncher and not The punchee

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Dang Checkmate!   Related note;  Wiggins dropped 40pts  10rbs last night and apparently has the same exact problem.   In the same vein neither of those players are ever credited with being High BBIQ guys either but somehow Marc always gets that benefit. 

I have never thought of it that way but spot on.   Herrington pointed out in interview this morning that Gasol apparently has to play ANGRY in order to be his best and he is correct.    LH used to purposely tick him off all the time to get his best out of him and also usually shows up against guys that are media darlings that play his position too (Jokic, Nurkic, Embiid, Pau, etc).   That's ridiculous and does show that he lacks "heart".     

It's because the team forced Marc into a role he was never developed for. He never had to be the leader that was Zbos role. Had this been Marcs team from the start, he'd be constantly dropping 20 a game, because he's capable of doing it. But that was never his game. All of the sudden at age 32 they expected him to be that player. Why? Because they paid him the max? Doesn't work like that.

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39 minutes ago, Memphisyank said:

Marc being injured has hurt us way more than we realized. thats the biggest take away

+1

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43 minutes ago, Memphisyank said:

Marc being injured has hurt us way more than we realized. thats the biggest take away

So I guess he's been injured for the last 10 years

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Get value while you can because it is not going to be there for ever.

This is the time now

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The only way the Grizzlies can hit teams in the mouth is by playing defense and frustrating the hell out of the teams. 

They don't even need to worry about scoring so much, they just need to make sure that the teams that they play are so frustrated by the first quarter that they're out of their game.

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24 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The only way the Grizzlies can hit teams in the mouth is by playing defense and frustrating the hell out of the teams. 

They don't even need to worry about scoring so much, they just need to make sure that the teams that they play are so frustrated by the first quarter that they're out of their game.

LOL

Yep it doesn't matter if Temple takes 25 shots and makes 4pts because Marc and Jaren will have 10+ blocks each per game

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8 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

LOL

Yep it doesn't matter if Temple takes 25 shots and makes 4pts because Marc and Jaren will have 10+ blocks each per game

The Grizzlies won the San Antonio Spurs game last night in the second quarter, a quarter where they score 20 points. Let that sink in.

The Grizzlies score 20 points and increase their lead by 7.

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8 hours ago, Back2Grizzness said:

This team goes as Mark Gasol goes

1000000% true

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The problem with the puncher-punchee approach is that the other team might have read the same book.

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The problem with Marc is that he's overburdened with the leadership thing. We need a leader. We have leaders but they are on 1 year contracts. Casspi and Temple to name 2. Wallace shorted us on this one. 
Hats off to JB for sitting Gasol and MC in the 4th against the Spurs. Youthful energy can replace leadership. Message to Gasol is that he can't carry the team anyway so relax. He's sucking the energy out of the team when he's a moody center of attention.

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1 hour ago, cousy said:

The problem with Marc is that he's overburdened with the leadership thing. We need a leader. We have leaders but they are on 1 year contracts. Casspi and Temple to name 2. Wallace shorted us on this one. 
Hats off to JB for sitting Gasol and MC in the 4th against the Spurs. Youthful energy can replace leadership. Message to Gasol is that he can't carry the team anyway so relax. He's sucking the energy out of the team when he's a moody center of attention.

We need to fill that leader void with someone who wants it. I wish Conley had that killer inside of him

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6 hours ago, cousy said:

The problem with Marc is that he's overburdened with the leadership thing. We need a leader. We have leaders but they are on 1 year contracts. Casspi and Temple to name 2. Wallace shorted us on this one. 
Hats off to JB for sitting Gasol and MC in the 4th against the Spurs. Youthful energy can replace leadership. Message to Gasol is that he can't carry the team anyway so relax. He's sucking the energy out of the team when he's a moody center of attention.

Agree with this. It's not just the psychological aspect of not being a natural leader, an important motivation for him playing through injury is that he's convinced that that's what a leader does (and it doesn't help when your coach and FO depend on him to keep their jobs).

The problem is we always try to turn non-leaders (Pau, Rudy, and now Marc) into leaders and we end up wasting their actual talents while trying to shoehorn them into a role they're not well suited to. On the other hand, you can have on-court leaders (Battier, TA) who aren't necessarily your best players from a stats point of view. Sure, it's always best to have someone like Lebron who will fill the scoreboard and keep everyone in line, but while we wait and see if JJJ is that kind of player it would help if we had some TA-like player in the roster. But the fact is we just have Marc, Mike and a host of kids and career journeymen.

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28 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Agree with this. It's not just the psychological aspect of not being a natural leader, an important motivation for him playing through injury is that he's convinced that that's what a leader does (and it doesn't help when your coach and FO depend on him to keep their jobs).

The problem is we always try to turn non-leaders (Pau, Rudy, and now Marc) into leaders and we end up wasting their actual talents while trying to shoehorn them into a role they're not well suited to. On the other hand, you can have on-court leaders (Battier, TA) who aren't necessarily your best players from a stats point of view. Sure, it's always best to have someone like Lebron who will fill the scoreboard and keep everyone in line, but while we wait and see if JJJ is that kind of player it would help if we had some TA-like player in the roster. But the fact is we just have Marc, Mike and a host of kids and career journeymen.

What exactly should this hypothetically leader should be doing , if not playing through injury or calling meetings? And what exactly is this person suppose to lead: is this person suppose to tell the coach that Temple sucks and should be replaced in the lineup, or should he "inspire" Temple to be a better player.

And what talents is Marc wasting by being shoehorned into a leadership role? I'm really not trying to be dense here, I just don't exactly understand what you are saying. 

I also don't quite understand your collection of players that you are using as an example.

It sounds like you want the grizzlies to have a jackass on the roster (like Matt Barnes), or Jimmy Butler who scorching the Earth everywhere he goes, and isn't helpful. Or maybe we need Latrell Sprewell to put JB Bickerstaff in a chokehold.

Look, as far as the TA interview is concerned, he can say what he wants. I have no comment about that. If that's his impression. But people hated rudy because he was a chucker and they loved Tashaun and battier because they were beta glue players. Pau was at one point a 20, 9, and five assist player (but was soft) and marc is a mainly defensive player who is tough and can score. I don't see the correlation.

And frankly if Jaren ever gets to Pau's level he will be a success. I doubt that we ever see a line from him like pau put up that allstar year in Memphis.

Marc's problem is that he is old and wants to run plays correctly rather than "showing out." This whole leadership idea (I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about) but it seems rather overrated to me. 

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Yeah I actually dont buy the leadership talk either which is why I dont comment on it much. Any successful team is full of guys who self motivate. And who can do the things they are comfortable doing nightly or play in their correct roles on the court. Either you bring it nightly or you dont. No one should have to keep you in line.

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21 hours ago, Father Pat said:

Jeff Green is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Wizards are 6-1 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Jeff Green shows up, his team often wins.

Marc Gasol is a player that has talent. He doesn't always give his all. The Grizzlies are 11-3 in games when he has scored 18 points or more. Marc Gasol shows up, his team often wins.

What do most people think of Jeff Green? What do most people think of Marc Gasol? Why is it different? Good leaders always show up. At least Jeff Green doesn't pretend to be a leader.

I'm glad Marc did good last night, and I'm glad that the Grizzlies won. The thing is, how many times have we seen this before? At what point does Marc showing up become less of a reason to celebrate and more of a middle finger to the fans?

Well, can we be honest or do we have to keep it PC.  Always remember, this is the same guy who came to camp fat after the Western conference finals and essentially wasted ZBo’s last dominant season.  

People are figuring it out but people still don’t want to call him out.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Or maybe we need Latrell Sprewell to put JB Bickerstaff in a chokehold.

Sign me up for this.   Can we give him a 10day or something?

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