Lord Gordon

Time to trade Marc

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6 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Wow that stuff about Marc is crazy. He really said that?

Or are you paraphrasing.

If that's really what he said he need Marc needs to go, yesterday

I paraphrased it but that is the spirit of what he said.  He specifically referenced the shot attempts and they brought up Westbrook as the counter.   Discussing how Westbrook will go 3-20 because at the end of the day Westbrook takes ownership of the results.    

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I keep thinking about that last Pera interview. Imagine any other Grizzly giving the lackluster effort that Gasol has been giving. It is crystal clear that the future of this team hinges on the development of JJJ. Marc is not helping the team to win games anymore, so is he helping in the development of JJJ? If anything, I believe that Marc is actually hindering JJJ's development. I just do not see any argument for not trading him. If Pera was honest in that last interview, then we should expect to see him moved. The hope of this franchise is only in it's future. Win now is clearly dead and impossible to sell to the fans. It is also my opinion that moving Marc would actually give us a better shot at 9th place or better so we can lose the pick to Boston this year. Charlotte, in my opinion, is the best chance of a good deal that won't create more contract problems in the future. Either way, Marc's doing more harm than good right now.

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Best case scenario: we trade Marc for a promising young player or a 1st round pick. Finish 9th and either jump into the top 3 or give the pick to Boston. We aren't going to make the playoffs so there's is no point to hold on to a 34 year old Gasol. We see the same thing every year; starts out great and then fizzles. Nothing is going to change. Let the young guys run.

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15 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

I keep thinking about that last Pera interview. Imagine any other Grizzly giving the lackluster effort that Gasol has been giving. It is crystal clear that the future of this team hinges on the development of JJJ. Marc is not helping the team to win games anymore, so is he helping in the development of JJJ? If anything, I believe that Marc is actually hindering JJJ's development. I just do not see any argument for not trading him. If Pera was honest in that last interview, then we should expect to see him moved. The hope of this franchise is only in it's future. Win now is clearly dead and impossible to sell to the fans. It is also my opinion that moving Marc would actually give us a better shot at 9th place or better so we can lose the pick to Boston this year. Charlotte, in my opinion, is the best chance of a good deal that won't create more contract problems in the future. Either way, Marc's doing more harm than good right now.

Do you have a link for Pera interview?

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I'm totally down with trading Gasol also.  It seems pretty obvious he has quit again on the team.  I'm sick of that garbage.  He can go sit with Cancun for all I care.

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16 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

I keep thinking about that last Pera interview. Imagine any other Grizzly giving the lackluster effort that Gasol has been giving. It is crystal clear that the future of this team hinges on the development of JJJ. Marc is not helping the team to win games anymore, so is he helping in the development of JJJ? If anything, I believe that Marc is actually hindering JJJ's development. I just do not see any argument for not trading him. If Pera was honest in that last interview, then we should expect to see him moved. The hope of this franchise is only in it's future. Win now is clearly dead and impossible to sell to the fans. It is also my opinion that moving Marc would actually give us a better shot at 9th place or better so we can lose the pick to Boston this year. Charlotte, in my opinion, is the best chance of a good deal that won't create more contract problems in the future. Either way, Marc's doing more harm than good right now.

I dont understand why some people are scared to admit this.  October - November Gasol was an AllStar.    Dec-Jan and (most of last season) Gasol is a mediocre role player.   It would be okay to keep him around if the coach was allowed to adjust Gasol's role to his play.   But this is becoming the norm for Gasol so its another addition by subtraction scenario to me.   People understood it when it was 26y Rudy but somehow the same logic doesn't apply to the 34y Marc. 

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30 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

I keep thinking about that last Pera interview. Imagine any other Grizzly giving the lackluster effort that Gasol has been giving. It is crystal clear that the future of this team hinges on the development of JJJ. Marc is not helping the team to win games anymore, so is he helping in the development of JJJ? If anything, I believe that Marc is actually hindering JJJ's development. I just do not see any argument for not trading him. If Pera was honest in that last interview, then we should expect to see him moved. The hope of this franchise is only in it's future. Win now is clearly dead and impossible to sell to the fans. It is also my opinion that moving Marc would actually give us a better shot at 9th place or better so we can lose the pick to Boston this year. Charlotte, in my opinion, is the best chance of a good deal that won't create more contract problems in the future. Either way, Marc's doing more harm than good right now.

These only reasons not to trade from the Grizzlies perspective in my opinion:

  1.   you would have to take back one more more bad contracts to make the finances work
  2. He's Robert Pera's favorite player

The reasons for other teams not to trade for Gasol:

  1. He is aging and an injury risk going forward this season do to the long minutes he's already played
  2. His contract includes a trade kicker that boosts his salary by 15% 
  3. His style of play doesn't fit with many teams faster paced, perimeter oriented style. 

By no means is this list complete but I think you get the idea. 

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(1) If Marc is sulking, why?  After all the high-BBIQ stuff does he still have teammates who aren't playing the Marc Way?  

(2) Is it his idea or JB's to run the O the way we do? 

(3) Is Marc frustrated because he feels he still has all the skills he had, but they aren't as effective as they were and he doesn't know why. He has admitted, IIRC, that he doesn't handle frustration well.

 

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

You are prob right.

   I am listening to Tony Allen on Vernon show.   He is raving about Jaren and how much he likes Dillon Brooks.  Loves both of their hearts and skills.  

   He commentated on Mike and Marc's leadership style and said they need to be more vocal.   That what is missing in his opinion.   He told a story about him encouraging Mike to yell at him when he messed up to be the example.   He said Mike would eventually call him out but never cussed him. 

  Tony then made a revealing comment about Gasol's lack of leadership.   He said that when a guy doesn't take a lot of shots during a game that he is doing it to deflect blame.   In other words  he wants to be able to say it wasn't his fault we loss.   Tony played with Marc for 7 years so that was very telling for him to say that.      

Time to move on from Marc - once again just like last season.   I am fine with Mike being sole representative from glorydays but Marc is a problem. 

How is Tony?

Did he say what he was up to now?

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2 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

2020

2020

2020

2020

The 2020 free agent class is a hot steamy pile of doo doo. I’m good on that. 

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I don't look at trading Marc with a personal dislike, I am strictly looking at it from the POV of Jaren and ensuring he is kept here at all possible costs.

I raised that concern in Nov, but we were winning and it sort of got laughed off at the time.

Here is a great article on GBB

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2019/1/7/18168659/memphis-grizzlies-must-avoid-an-anthony-davis-situation-nba-jaren-jackson-jr

Using the strategy hoping that draft picks is gonna get us in a good position in time for when Jaren's contract comes up for re-negotiation. We need to take action pretty soon. 

They mention a few free agent targets, Malcolm Brogdon would be a really good get.

I keep looking at Charlotte knowing they are definitely going to make a move, but I just can't see how that move will be with us.

If we had to take on Batum, I'd be asking for either Monk or Bridges, AND Hernangomez, that kid looks like he is really improving, but he don't shoot 3s

The question is:

"What is the best fit for Jaren:

- a shot blocking/ rim protect centre to play in the paint only like DeJordan?

- a centre who play out of the paint and stretches the floor like Marc does?

- a PF like Mirotic who can stretch the floor, and play Jaren at centre?

- a Zbo-like PF like Julius Randle and play Jaren as we are playing Marc now?

This needs to be figured out to determine the best next move, rather than just winging it

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23 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

These only reasons not to trade from the Grizzlies perspective in my opinion:

  1.   you would have to take back one more more bad contracts to make the finances work
  2. He's Robert Pera's favorite player

The reasons for other teams not to trade for Gasol:

  1. He is aging and an injury risk going forward this season do to the long minutes he's already played
  2. His contract includes a trade kicker that boosts his salary by 15% 
  3. His style of play doesn't fit with many teams faster paced, perimeter oriented style. 

By no means is this list complete but I think you get the idea. 

There is a chance with Charlotte for not taking back a large bad contract, and small bad contracts are much easier to move or absorb. 

As for your reasons other teams might not want him, again, Charlotte just made more sense to me. Kupchak was the guy that traded for Pau. Trade kickers can be waived, and Kupchak and his history with Pau might be the guy to help make that happen. Even if he doesn't waive it, his kicker does not include Marc's option year so it adds about 3.2 mil which isn't a trade killer. Marc taking over for Zeller isn't going to hurt their style of play.

It just seems to me that Charlotte is a reasonable trade destination, if not the only one.

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55 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

I don't look at trading Marc with a personal dislike, I am strictly looking at it from the POV of Jaren and ensuring he is kept here at all possible costs.

I raised that concern in Nov, but we were winning and it sort of got laughed off at the time.

Here is a great article on GBB

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2019/1/7/18168659/memphis-grizzlies-must-avoid-an-anthony-davis-situation-nba-jaren-jackson-jr

Using the strategy hoping that draft picks is gonna get us in a good position in time for when Jaren's contract comes up for re-negotiation. We need to take action pretty soon. 

They mention a few free agent targets, Malcolm Brogdon would be a really good get.

I keep looking at Charlotte knowing they are definitely going to make a move, but I just can't see how that move will be with us.

If we had to take on Batum, I'd be asking for either Monk or Bridges, AND Hernangomez, that kid looks like he is really improving, but he don't shoot 3s

The question is:

"What is the best fit for Jaren:

- a shot blocking/ rim protect centre to play in the paint only like DeJordan?

- a centre who play out of the paint and stretches the floor like Marc does?

- a PF like Mirotic who can stretch the floor, and play Jaren at centre?

- a Zbo-like PF like Julius Randle and play Jaren as we are playing Marc now?

This needs to be figured out to determine the best next move, rather than just winging it

Forget Z-Bo  like, and just get Z-Bo!!! LOL!!! But seriously, if we could make that work, that would be a good get. 3 -way deal with Charlotte and Sac to bring Z-Bo back and suit him up for a bench role would work well. 

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Just looking at the trade machine, I just can't see how a Marc to Charlotte trade works.

The problem is they'd end up with like 4 centres, so we would definitely have to take one back

If you put Batum in the trade, we'll only be able to get Hernangomez, they won't put Bridges or Monk in as well

Biyombo+Monk works but then they take on nearly $4mil, and they wanna shed salary - I suppose they could throw in Kaminsky

If you put Zeller in the trade, there won't be enough salary swap unless you do Marc+Jam for Zeller+Williams+Monk, and Zeller has a broken hand at the moment anyway

I don't know if any of those scenarios is a good deal for us

 

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16 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Forget Z-Bo  like, and just get Z-Bo!!! LOL!!! But seriously, if we could make that work, that would be a good get. 3 -way deal with Charlotte and Sac to bring Z-Bo back and suit him up for a bench role would work well. 

How would you structure it?

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1 hour ago, HPGrizz said:

Tks brother

 

13 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Just looking at the trade machine, I just can't see how a Marc to Charlotte trade works.

The problem is they'd end up with like 4 centres, so we would definitely have to take one back

If you put Batum in the trade, we'll only be able to get Hernangomez, they won't put Bridges or Monk in as well

Biyombo+Monk works but then they take on nearly $4mil, and they wanna shed salary - I suppose they could throw in Kaminsky

If you put Zeller in the trade, there won't be enough salary swap unless you do Marc+Jam for Zeller+Williams+Monk, and Zeller has a broken hand at the moment anyway

I don't know if any of those scenarios is a good deal for us

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybh8wood

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11 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Just looking at the trade machine, I just can't see how a Marc to Charlotte trade works.

The problem is they'd end up with like 4 centres, so we would definitely have to take one back

If you put Batum in the trade, we'll only be able to get Hernangomez, they won't put Bridges or Monk in as well

Biyombo+Monk works but then they take on nearly $4mil, and they wanna shed salary - I suppose they could throw in Kaminsky

If you put Zeller in the trade, there won't be enough salary swap unless you do Marc+Jam for Zeller+Williams+Monk, and Zeller has a broken hand at the moment anyway

I don't know if any of those scenarios is a good deal for us

 

The thing with Charlotte is the Grizzlies could be the sellers here. They need to be competitive to keep Kemba. I just don't see the Grizzlies having leverage enough with any other team in which we could get a draft pick or possibly more. To be honest, I really don't think Batum's salary would be a good idea for the Grizzlies, unless they throw in more draft picks. The Grizzlies aren't getting straightened out in just one season. It's going to take a few at least so getting draft picks is essential. 

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

These only reasons not to trade from the Grizzlies perspective in my opinion:

  1.   you would have to take back one more more bad contracts to make the finances work
  2. He's Robert Pera's favorite player

The reasons for other teams not to trade for Gasol:

  1. He is aging and an injury risk going forward this season do to the long minutes he's already played
  2. His contract includes a trade kicker that boosts his salary by 15% 
  3. His style of play doesn't fit with many teams faster paced, perimeter oriented style. 

By no means is this list complete but I think you get the idea. 

To add an important #4 - Any team that is willing to add him has to be prepared for Marc to exercise his player option. 

The Celtics already are dealing with some salary cap issues for 2019 if Kyrie opts out of his PO and wants a bigger deal.  Really the Celtics have to consider that Kyrie and Al Horford have PO next year and when combined with what to do with Marcus Morris, they might not be willing to commit to that large of payroll and they want the rookie contracts.

 

And #5

To make the salaries work, it means that more than likely, all or some of the players returning players will have years not their contract remaining which really kills the benefit of clearing his contract from the books.

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Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm on-board with blowing it up / trading the vets (including Marc and Mike) as long as we get a good deal (as many first round picks as possible).

Ouch.  That hurts.

There's a sense of hopelessness and the team has started going through the motions.  Other teams have figured us out & we have to play at an extremely high level to win these days.  If the effort is there, we can pull it out against some good teams.  If the effort is a little below average, we can lose to anybody.

I'm ready now.  I previously felt I was one of the few holding onto the bitter end.  But it's time to rebuild around the young guys, especially Jaren.  Just hope whoever we trade will go to a team in playoff contention and I wish them the best.

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9 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

The thing with Charlotte is the Grizzlies could be the sellers here. They need to be competitive to keep Kemba. I just don't see the Grizzlies having leverage enough with any other team in which we could get a draft pick or possibly more. To be honest, I really don't think Batum's salary would be a good idea for the Grizzlies, unless they throw in more draft picks. The Grizzlies aren't getting straightened out in just one season. It's going to take a few at least so getting draft picks is essential. 

Batum salary is not good, but I would take for the sake o getting Bridges. Bridges has a lot of potential and also is a great friend of Jaren, getting Bridges you help yourself in keeping Jaren.

If we get Monk instead I would ask for picks to take Batum, or they move other piece instead.

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