chipc3

Is It Time to Embrace Another Tank?

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

I have to fall on the against side of a "just tank" this time.  Last draft was pretty loaded no matter where the ping pong balls landed.

This time not so much.  If we don't at least get Romeo it's not worth it.  If we hadn't already drafted Carter to be the PG eventually, Garland might be tempting if his meniscus surgery turned out good.  And there are rumors floating around Nashville that he might be able to start playing again around February.

But this is not the year to tank.  Any pick after around the top 7 wouldn't be any better than a mid-round first pick.

 

I agree that this draft isn’t as rank friendly since the top 5 of this draft was basically a guaranteed high level starter.

This draft has some talent but it will require more scouting and be a bit more situational. There will be at least one big. It’s in. The top 5ish. Probably another two in the next 5. But I am guessing one of the top 5 players in this draft will be outside the lottery. 

So it is a risk.

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The NBA is headed for a dark age.

Behold the era of Greek Freek-Jokic ABA co-MVP's.  

League marketing gurus await the tenure of Pervis Wiseman completing the Pervis Davis and Pervis Embiid triple crown.

Stardate 2021 is too far off.  Besides Tacoma taxpayers will have a 4 point line by then anyway.

All I want for Christmas is a Sears catalog with the names Zion Williamson aka YouTube Yeshua to pair with Jaren the Baptist, "Easy" Mac McClung aka Air Hitler, Sargent Schofield, and Uptown Moses Brown.  Delivered to the Fab Forum!

Slouching Towards Zion! Let's do this! 2/3rds of the way to the mythical 3TankPeat.

2020: Tyler Harris IS the next Trae Young!  3rd string combo munchkin point guard I the NEW 4th option!!!

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36 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

The NBA is headed for a dark age.

Behold the era of Greek Freek-Jokic ABA co-MVP's.  

League marketing gurus await the tenure of Pervis Wiseman completing the Pervis Davis and Pervis Embiid triple crown.

Stardate 2021 is too far off.  Besides Tacoma taxpayers will have a 4 point line by then anyway.

All I want for Christmas is a Sears catalog with the names Zion Williamson aka YouTube Yeshua to pair with Jaren the Baptist, "Easy" Mac McClung aka Air Hitler, Sargent Schofield, and Uptown Moses Brown.  Delivered to the Fab Forum!

Slouching Towards Zion! Let's do this! 2/3rds of the way to the mythical 3TankPeat.

2020: Tyler Harris IS the next Trae Young!  3rd string combo munchkin point guard I the NEW 4th option!!!

Oh no does tanking mean that the "Big Board" returns?:o

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But anyone saying its "too late to tank" or "just give the pick to Boston." needs to really analysis this thing. They are getting real close to the bottom feeders and their performance in the last 22 games has been top 3 pick worthy.

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Oh no does tanking mean that the "Big Board" returns?:o

It's a new year. Anything is possible.  I have a mock lotto but I haven't fully researched everyone yet.  I have a basic first round list.  I might put my first big board out over All Star Weekend.

Maybe not a bad draft maybe just a quirky draft -- actually guys you can put next to Jaren Jackson Jr.  Like JJJ and World War Z aka Jaren and the Fat Man. Super Bol is out for the year -- maybe he slips. He could get there at 8ish.  Nasir Little and Scam Reddish have underperformed. One or both should be there.  You can say they are busts but none of the 2020 names look any better.  Moses Brown looks kinda legit. Maybe. Ditto for Daniel Langford.  The Volunteer Express tag team will be there.  Or an import like Sekou Dombouya (need more research) or Luka Samanic (ditto).  Ja Morant is a kid with hype.  Dedric Lawson could be a piece.

If this thing stinks maybe 2020 stinks too.  Of all the guys on the radar the next few years I wanna put Zion next to Jaren.  Does 2020 have any better wing than RJ or Romeo?  I am not yet buying 2020.

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6 hours ago, Father Pat said:

 They are simply playing to the level of talent they have. As fans of the Grizzlies we have become used to them playing over their heads so we expect them to be better than they are capable of.

It's wake up and smell the coffee time. Healthy Mike and Marc vs. the world isn't getting it done. Pera's 50 win prediction for this season is not happening without divine intervention. Mike, Marc, and Jam are the last of the playoff Grizzlies. It is obvious what needs to be done now, but who would want Conley's contract and what team needs or wants Marc to get them to the finals? Our best trade assets won't get us squat.

Embrace the tank because it is happening.

I think its time

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I am beginning to believe it doesn't matter if the team is deliberately tanking or not. The end result appears to be the same. 

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Maybe the tank was always on when they gave the job to JB? I.e. they said he's a good guy to have through our tank, we'll give him a shot to try to be good before we tear it down.

Honestly I don't think we need to go full-blown Philly teardown. Might be hard to do anyway since we already have Jaren. Teams tank for years without lining up a stud on his level. I look at what Brooklyn is doing as a better example of what we should be trying to do at this point. We're not going to get a meaningful first rounder for anybody, unless say Horford gets hurt and Boston thinks it's their year so they take a chance on Marc.

I think that our best bet is to move off our productive assets and try to rope in undervalued guys - or guys who just haven't had their shot yet, in return.

NOW...

All this being said, to do that and be successful, two MAJOR things need to happen first:

  1. You have to scorch earth in that front office, because I have zero faith in their ability to steward a rebuild.
  2. You have to make an A+ investment in infrastructure. Training staff, skill development, coaches (probably someone with a more creative approach to putting players in position to be successful on offense than JB), the whole nine.

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20 hours ago, Dwash said:

But anyone saying its "too late to tank" or "just give the pick to Boston." needs to really analysis this thing. They are getting real close to the bottom feeders and their performance in the last 22 games has been top 3 pick worthy.

Exactly, with the flatter lottery odds.  Tanking just means not giving our pick to Boston.    8th slot has 6% chance at #1.  1st slot has a 14% chance at #1.  Compared to 2.8% and 25% just last year.  So, we are either giving our pick to Boston or in the Zion race.  There is no other zone.

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38 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Exactly, with the flatter lottery odds.  Tanking just means not giving our pick to Boston.    8th slot has 6% chance at #1.  1st slot has a 14% chance at #1.  Compared to 2.8% and 25% just last year.  So, we are either giving our pick to Boston or in the Zion race.  There is no other zone.

Oh yeah I had forgotten about the odds chamging. Yes time to tank.

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42 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Exactly, with the flatter lottery odds.  Tanking just means not giving our pick to Boston.    8th slot has 6% chance at #1.  1st slot has a 14% chance at #1.  Compared to 2.8% and 25% just last year.  So, we are either giving our pick to Boston or in the Zion race.  There is no other zone.

Like someone else said if this was always a secret tank then putting a proven Tank Commander at the helm makes sense.   JB is a proven tank coach. 

I am cool with embracing only if Jaren, Jevon, Dillon and Kyle get the major burn.   JB has to change into development mode. 

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48 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Like someone else said if this was always a secret tank then putting a proven Tank Commander at the helm makes sense.   JB is a proven tank coach. 

I am cool with embracing only if Jaren, Jevon, Dillon and Kyle get the major burn.   JB has to change into development mode. 

Lmao! I'm going to have to start using the "Tank Commander."

Saw someone mention on Twitter: Absolute best case scenario is we land the #9 slot. This way we legit either get Top 3 or pay our debt to Boston. Would hate to endure a full-blown tankfest to end up with the #7 in this sorry draft and then have to worry about what happens to our pick next year when the team sucks again.

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The lottery is flatter this year. Don't tank intentionally. Try to convey the pick without messing up with our future assets (which CW has already done with the Holliday trade) and if we can't we can't, but this is still the best year to get out of that debt. It's very likely that we'll be out of the playoffs for 2-3 years and we want to have a pick in 2021.

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39 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

The lottery is flatter this year. Don't tank intentionally. Try to convey the pick without messing up with our future assets (which CW has already done with the Holliday trade) and if we can't we can't, but this is still the best year to get out of that debt. It's very likely that we'll be out of the playoffs for 2-3 years and we want to have a pick in 2021.

You have to think sunk cost a little bit though.

 

1. We are going to give up a first round pick in the next 3 years one way or the other

2. We probably aren't good enough to win enough this year to convey the pick

It doesn't actually matter how high the pick is when we convey it. Psychologically it will scar us if it's top 3 but a worse outcome by far is trying to convey this year and next and picking 8th and 6th and then conveying in 2021.

 

The pick is owed, what's our optimal strategy starting from right now? I think it's clearly get off of Mike, Marc, and Parsons contract, tank, build through lottery with mid-tier free agent signings.

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We have to get rid of the pick this year, Very top heavy class this year, but I don't think we will be able to lose enough to get a top 3 pick. We are slotted at the 10th spot right now, so as long as we stay above that we will be fine. We just need some momentum this year. Also Boston has 4 first round picks this year, yet they are a top 4 team in the East. Amazing how that all works out. 

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35 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

You have to think sunk cost a little bit though.

 

1. We are going to give up a first round pick in the next 3 years one way or the other

2. We probably aren't good enough to win enough this year to convey the pick

It doesn't actually matter how high the pick is when we convey it. Psychologically it will scar us if it's top 3 but a worse outcome by far is trying to convey this year and next and picking 8th and 6th and then conveying in 2021.

 

The pick is owed, what's our optimal strategy starting from right now? I think it's clearly get off of Mike, Marc, and Parsons contract, tank, build through lottery with mid-tier free agent signings.

Sunk cost? If we get a middling player with this season's pick we're going to suck hard next one, and then we will convey in 2021 when we absolutely want a pick because it will be the deepest draft in a generation. Not to mention the damaging effect of not being able to properly plan long term until the pick is conveyed.

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2 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Sunk cost? If we get a middling player with this season's pick we're going to suck hard next one, and then we will convey in 2021 when we absolutely want a pick because it will be the deepest draft in a generation. Not to mention the damaging effect of not being able to properly plan long term until the pick is conveyed.

We are going to suck hard next year regardless. 

I do not think we can get out of the top 8. Name to me the 8 teams we'll have a better record than based on our recent play. Literally write them down and show me. If we can't get out of the top 8 we might as well make the pick as good as possible.

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31 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Name to me the 8 teams we'll have a better record than based on our recent play.  

Eight? How about three?

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25 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

We are going to suck hard next year regardless. 

I do not think we can get out of the top 8. Name to me the 8 teams we'll have a better record than based on our recent play. Literally write them down and show me. If we can't get out of the top 8 we might as well make the pick as good as possible.

Well, of course if we keep a .190 pace for the rest of the season we're going to be bottom 8. Which would be an unmitigated disaster because it all but guarantees missing out in 2021.

But in any event we're not going to catch Cleveland, Phoenix, New York or Chicago, who have been tanking for a while, and probably not even Atlanta. And tanking for 6th is not exactly a recipe for success. Not to mention you could be the worst team and still have almost a 50% chance of falling to the 5th.

I'd rather try to get out of the pick debt as long as it is feasible, and if we can't so be it.

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6 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I am beginning to believe it doesn't matter if the team is deliberately tanking or not. The end result appears to be the same. 

You beat me to it.  I don't know that tanking is a choice at this point.  This team isn't capable of winning a whole lot right now.  We are going to have a bad record, the question becomes, how bad can it get?  And as long as Mike and Marc are here, they aren't going to sign off on losing on purpose.

Therefore, the question becomes, how soon can you send Mike and Marc out of here?  Retiring as Grizzlies won't be enjoyable for either those two or the fans now.  I think our fans would actually be happier seeing if we can get them to a team where they might be able to earn a ring.  With the size of their contracts, just getting them to playoff-bound teams would be a feat.

The only thing - the ONLY thing - I am curious about at this point is how soon will the organization be honest about the state of the team?  Because until that happens, we'll just keep making marginal moves that don't move needles, but provide some with false hope, and putting ourselves behind the 8 ball in making substantive moves that reel in needed assets for a reset.

 

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11 hours ago, Acehigh718 said:

Maybe the tank was always on when they gave the job to JB? I.e. they said he's a good guy to have through our tank, we'll give him a shot to try to be good before we tear it down.

Honestly I don't think we need to go full-blown Philly teardown. Might be hard to do anyway since we already have Jaren. Teams tank for years without lining up a stud on his level. I look at what Brooklyn is doing as a better example of what we should be trying to do at this point. We're not going to get a meaningful first rounder for anybody, unless say Horford gets hurt and Boston thinks it's their year so they take a chance on Marc.

I think that our best bet is to move off our productive assets and try to rope in undervalued guys - or guys who just haven't had their shot yet, in return.

NOW...

All this being said, to do that and be successful, two MAJOR things need to happen first:

  1. You have to scorch earth in that front office, because I have zero faith in their ability to steward a rebuild.
  2. You have to make an A+ investment in infrastructure. Training staff, skill development, coaches (probably someone with a more creative approach to putting players in position to be successful on offense than JB), the whole nine.

 

 

I feel like this is the off-season that enough is enough for #1 above, but I feel like we have been it since the Thabeet draft.

 

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