chipc3

Is It Time to Embrace Another Tank?

Recommended Posts

I started this season very negative about the team. I predicted a 12th place finish in the West and only 28 wins so maybe this thread is self-serving but I believe it is time to seriously consider tanking and keeping the pick this season. 

Parsons' drama will haunt the team for a while longer. The new addition is a 29 yr old soon to be free agent who will take time to bond with the team and develop chemistry with everyone and he wasn't that great when he had chemistry in Chicago. Gasol looks like he has already checked out on the court. Jackson, Brooks, Carter, Rabb and Yuta Watanabe all need playing time to develop. Conley and Gasol don't appear interested in helping any of them to get that experience. If Gasol opts out of his final season then the team has plenty of cap space available especially if the team can buy out Parsons (but who cares about that since no one wants to sign here anyway). The list of free agents on the roster is practically everyone. Only Conley, Jackson, Brooks, Rabb, 

It's time to face facts. This is a bad team that has a ton of mediocre players surrounded by a solid but not lead scoring PG and an excellent center who has seen his best days and plays a style no longer in fashion around the league. If the Grizzlies lose at New Orleans, and they are underdogs, the team will be in 14th place in the West. Let that sink in a for a minute. Dallas has the same record as the Grizzlies and is not playing tonight. New Orleans is just a half game behind.  A win by the Pelicans drops the Grizzlies to 14th in the West. 

That isn't enough to guarantee a top 6 spot in the draft however. There are still five teams that will be difficult for the Grizzlies to finish below. Cleveland, Phoenix, Atlanta, New York and Chicago are 5 or more wins behind the Grizzlies as they near the half way point of the season. It's not insurmountable but it would take a legendary fall. Phoenix however has won 5 of their last 9 games. Atlanta has been making strides as well. It isn't as difficult as it looks considering how poorly the team has been playing lately without trying to tank. 

I know the argument against. Boston will still hold an option on our pick so you can't rebuild until that is paid. However the Celtics are looking at getting a lottery pick from us no matter what. Either this season or the next and the longer you wait to bring in elite talent from the lottery, the less time that player will have to work with Jaren Jackson before he becomes a free agent and looks to move elsewhere. It may be time to embrace another season of tanking to rebuild around young talent that can take the team forward in the future. 

Just thinking out loud. I am not proposing the team do this but we can't ignore it much longer, especially the way the team has been playing of late. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not quite ready to throw in the towel yet, but I am close. The next two weeks will be very telling. if we can right the ship and push back to .500 ball then I still think in the long term getting back to the playoffs is better for this team/city. but if we continue to struggle, I may join you on the tank bandwagon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No give the pick to the Celtics this year 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dallas has the Lebron less Lakers tonight.

But I have been thinking a lot about this lately. Not beating Brooklyn and Detroit at home was a really bad sign. If you need a win and you cant pull off one of those two, seriously, how many teams can you beat unless the other team has a really bad night?

Its all about the pick owed at this point. If you keep the pick, then you must draft a wing who can contribute now. Next years draft doesnt appear to be much deeper in terms on high end talent. I see James Wiseman and Anthony Edwards right now. 2021 is obviously the gem if High schoolers are allowed back in.

If you lose so much that you keep the pick, draft a contributor at 2 guard (not necesaarily the highest upside guy), ask Gasol to opt out and sign a team friendly long term deal, and stretch Parsons (I dont like that but it maybe needed), then you can look to sign some meaningful quality depth off the bench (Jam, Temple, Holiday all to be considered) or maybe a shooter (Bojan Bodganovic?) then maybe next year you have enough firepower to stay out of the bottom 6 and convey the pick to Boston.

Right now its whatever route it takes not to give a 2021 unprotected to Boston cause that looks like a big draft. The Grizzlies have paid for the damage done in 2003 (giving up the #2 pick) and in 2009 (picking Thabeet over Harden). You cant let this happen again in 2021. Unfortunately, I think this shortsighted FO isnt thinking that way but I could be mistaken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Allen said:

No give the pick to the Celtics this year 

I agree. The question is starting to become are they good enough to do that. If you finish 14th in the WC (realistic, given the talent problems), you are counting on Phoenix and ALL 7 EC non playoff teams to be worse than you in order to not be bottom 8. Thats a tough feat because the EC teams obviously play each other more than they play the WC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 They are simply playing to the level of talent they have. As fans of the Grizzlies we have become used to them playing over their heads so we expect them to be better than they are capable of.

It's wake up and smell the coffee time. Healthy Mike and Marc vs. the world isn't getting it done. Pera's 50 win prediction for this season is not happening without divine intervention. Mike, Marc, and Jam are the last of the playoff Grizzlies. It is obvious what needs to be done now, but who would want Conley's contract and what team needs or wants Marc to get them to the finals? Our best trade assets won't get us squat.

Embrace the tank because it is happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

 They are simply playing to the level of talent they have. As fans of the Grizzlies we have become used to them playing over their heads so we expect them to be better than they are capable of.

It's wake up and smell the coffee time. Healthy Mike and Marc vs. the world isn't getting it done. Pera's 50 win prediction for this season is not happening without divine intervention. Mike, Marc, and Jam are the last of the playoff Grizzlies. It is obvious what needs to be done now, but who would want Conley's contract and what team needs or wants Marc to get them to the finals? Our best trade assets won't get us squat. Embrace the tank because it is happening.

Actually i think a healthy Mike and Marc and little to no Shelvin plus 30mpg Jaren is more than enough to give up the pick this year.    Problem is that Marc hasn't been healthy since November yet the Coach WILL NOT SIT HIM.   

Peter Edmiston‏ @peteredmiston

Over the last 5 games, the Grizzlies have a minus-10.7 NetRtg with Marc Gasol on court, and even more remarkably, they're a plus-9 when he's been off the court. No one else is even close to that number.   

Marc has been actively hurting the team because he can't move.   3pt barrage from opponents can be partially pointed in his direction as well because he can't recover out to 3pt line now.    Our record would be better in that span if Rabb and Noah took his minutes.  

I don't care about playoffs at this juncture but i do want to get from under the cloud of this pick.     Just develop the young guys and let Gasol fully heal up.   Gasol sitting may actually boost this terrible offense because the ball will automatically be in Mike, Kyle and Jaren's more by default.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Actually i think a healthy Mike and Marc and little to no Shelvin plus 30mpg Jaren is more than enough to give up the pick this year.    Problem is that Marc hasn't been healthy since November yet the Coach WILL NOT SIT HIM.   

Peter Edmiston‏ @peteredmiston

Over the last 5 games, the Grizzlies have a minus-10.7 NetRtg with Marc Gasol on court, and even more remarkably, they're a plus-9 when he's been off the court. No one else is even close to that number.   

Marc has been actively hurting the team because he can't move.   3pt barrage from opponents can be partially pointed in his direction as well because he can't recover out to 3pt line now.    Our record would be better in that span if Rabb and Noah took his minutes.  

I don't care about playoffs at this juncture but i do want to get from under the cloud of this pick.     Just develop the young guys and let Gasol fully heal up.   Gasol sitting may actually boost this terrible offense because the ball will automatically be in Mike, Kyle and Jaren's more by default.  

 

You know this is actually a great point. I appreciate that Marc really wants to help the team, but a few days rest would probably work wonders on his sore ankle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Actually i think a healthy Mike and Marc and little to no Shelvin plus 30mpg Jaren is more than enough to give up the pick this year.    Problem is that Marc hasn't been healthy since November yet the Coach WILL NOT SIT HIM.   

Peter Edmiston‏ @peteredmiston

Over the last 5 games, the Grizzlies have a minus-10.7 NetRtg with Marc Gasol on court, and even more remarkably, they're a plus-9 when he's been off the court. No one else is even close to that number.   

Marc has been actively hurting the team because he can't move.   3pt barrage from opponents can be partially pointed in his direction as well because he can't recover out to 3pt line now.    Our record would be better in that span if Rabb and Noah took his minutes.  

I don't care about playoffs at this juncture but i do want to get from under the cloud of this pick.     Just develop the young guys and let Gasol fully heal up.   Gasol sitting may actually boost this terrible offense because the ball will automatically be in Mike, Kyle and Jaren's more by default.  

 

JB isn't sitting Gasol. Simple as that.

I'd love for the team to give up the pick to Boston and get it over with, but it doesn't look good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

11 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Embrace the tank because it is happening.

I don't think purposefully tanking is happening. I also think we definitely do NOT need to embrace it this year. 

Last year, I think the team started "stealth" tanking even earlier than we realized, with Gasol playing like doo-doo and players being held out due to "soreness," with the real tank eventually starting when we shut Mike down. That was in a year with a GREAT draft, and the team knew that, and we landed what appears to be a stud with our top pick (even though we got screwed out of Luka by the lottery). 

This draft is hot GARBAGE. Even the consensus #2 pick has looked beyond mediocre, a Rudy Gay type guy. This looks like a 1 player draft. 

With the potential to be just as bad in the future, with Parsons hanging around our neck and an aging Marc and Mike around for at least next year, we have to give up the pick this year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

JB isn't sitting Gasol. Simple as that.

I'd love for the team to give up the pick to Boston and get it over with, but it doesn't look good.

Yea JB may not be a good coach but he does understand that he only has this job because of a good relationship with Marc.   Should be a referendum in the NBA that the only 34y that can dictated who coaches him is LeBron.    Ridiculous that Marc has this much cache for this team.   Gasol has been a thorn in every coaches side since Hollins.   LH had to dog cuss him to play his best,  DJ thought Marc was trying to get him fired and Marc did actually get Fizz fired.   Now Marc's stubbornness is sabotaging the coach he supposedly actually likes.  

#trade33

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still expecting 32ish wins and hope we give that pick to Boston.


After this year...I'm 100% down with a clean sweep starting at the top and going on down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Zappastache said:

 

I don't think purposefully tanking is happening. I also think we definitely do NOT need to embrace it this year. 

Last year, I think the team started "stealth" tanking even earlier than we realized, with Gasol playing like doo-doo and players being held out due to "soreness," with the real tank eventually starting when we shut Mike down. That was in a year with a GREAT draft, and the team knew that, and we landed what appears to be a stud with our top pick (even though we got screwed out of Luka by the lottery). 

This draft is hot GARBAGE. Even the consensus #2 pick has looked beyond mediocre, a Rudy Gay type guy. This looks like a 1 player draft. 

With the potential to be just as bad in the future, with Parsons hanging around our neck and an aging Marc and Mike around for at least next year, we have to give up the pick this year!

I agree that purposeful tanking isn't going on, and I don't want them to tank on purpose. I just believe it WILL happen anyway (as in tank = not winning no matter what). Pelicans won't tank because they need to win to keep Anthony Davis. That leaves the Suns as possibly the only team worse than the Grizzlies in the West. In the East the Cavs, Knicks, Bulls and Hawks are shoe in's for sucking. Wizards (over luxury tax), Magic, Pistons and Hornets will all fight for the 8th playoff spot. 

9th worst or better for the Grizzlies doesn't look like it's happening right now. 

EDIT: So far during the months of December and January, only the Suns, Cavs, and Knicks have worse records. Grizzlies 5-13, Suns 5-14, Cavs 4-15, and Knicks 3-13.

Last 10 games, only the Cavs are worse. Grizzlies 2-8, Cavs 1-9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This draft seems pretty weak, and we have a few too many wins to truly be in play for Zion.  This pick has been haunting us for years now.  Honestly, I'm ready to get past it.  

Tanking for a second straight year would really frustrate our casual fanbase (and our players).  I also don't see Chris Wallace committing to it.  The trade we just made commits us even further to a 'must win' mentality.  

We're in a horrible situation.  We're handicapped by bad contracts and a lack of picks.  But, in our scenario, winning (some) this year honestly is as beneficial to our future as tanking.  It's going to be a long and slow road, but I think it's time we start working on it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Allen said:

No give the pick to the Celtics this year 

You are sti thinking we will have a choice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just play hard and try to win every game and give the pick to Boston this year. It’s too late to tank now and the draft is top heavy (maybe 3-4 players) and a very weak draft in general. We must end up better than the bottom 8 and if we get lucky and jump up to get the 1st or 2nd pick then great if not give it to Boston. I want to see us feature JJJ and Kyle more on offense. Let JJJ be one of the scoring options, let Kyle be the ball handler and facilitate on offense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Boston Pick and  the Parsons contract are killing us all we have to do is wait it out we have no choice. 

Get rid of the pick 

Get rid of Parsons 

 

Tank next season featuring JJJ as our number one option.

2 year plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one would think this would be a critical time for strong leadership.

one would think that the owner would want the utmost confidence in the f.o. at this time in particular.

one would think.

 

slim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

one would think this would be a critical time for strong leadership.

one would think that the owner would want the utmost confidence in the f.o. at this time in particular.

one would think.

 

slim.

What makes you think Pera doesn't have confidence in Wallace? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to fall on the against side of a "just tank" this time.  Last draft was pretty loaded no matter where the ping pong balls landed.

This time not so much.  If we don't at least get Romeo it's not worth it.  If we hadn't already drafted Carter to be the PG eventually, Garland might be tempting if his meniscus surgery turned out good.  And there are rumors floating around Nashville that he might be able to start playing again around February.

But this is not the year to tank.  Any pick after around the top 7 wouldn't be any better than a mid-round first pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know I was thinking maybe Pera does have confidence in Wallace.  I mean Pera was buffaloed by Levien previously; so what's to say Wallace isn't doing the same snow job that Levien did?  Pera strikes me as the book smart introvert with little to no street smarts.  Someone who's a good bull-sh*++er can probably talk their way out of any mess they create.

I have nothing to back this up....just thinking out loud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Grizball said:

Just play hard and try to win every game and give the pick to Boston this year. It’s too late to tank now and the draft is top heavy (maybe 3-4 players) and a very weak draft in general. We must end up better than the bottom 8 and if we get lucky and jump up to get the 1st or 2nd pick then great if not give it to Boston. I want to see us feature JJJ and Kyle more on offense. Let JJJ be one of the scoring options, let Kyle be the ball handler and facilitate on offense. 

I agree its too late to tank, but is not to late to move, we should have started tanking from the get go, but we won too much in the beginning of the year; and now we are caught in between. Not that good for the Playoffs and not that bad for a top 5 pick. Unless we get super lucky in the lottery(never happen to us), we better  trade for Beal, Hardaway or Fournier. And try to pay the pick to Boston this year. If we fail to make the Playoffs moving for those guys its lottery lucky or full rebuild. 

To tell the truth, I want a full rebuild for almost 3 years now. And I dont see FO doing it, unless Marc and MC retire. I want to watch Jaren, Carter, SlowMo and Dillon more than the MC and Marc pick and roll forever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

January will determine then Grizzlies approach in the trade market, in June for the draft, and in July for free agency. However, there are some winnable games in January, but also losable games as well. The rest of January's schedule includes the following: New Orleans (2), San Antonio, Boston, Charlotte, Indiana, Toronto, Miami, Sacramento, Minnesota, Denver, and Milwaukee (not in that order).

The bad thing is that after the month, we will finish Toronto, Indiana, Miami, Boston, and Milwaukee. Therefore, the schedule in February and March will be easier. In order to "tank" my plan is to play Mike and March throughout the rest of the month. Start calling teams now, and hopefully get to a trade by Super Bowl Sunday when the schedule gets easier. We can still get to 30-35 wins at the end of the season, and that is not where you want to be. No team wants to be in the 30's in win total.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now