Kevin B Moses

Fire ME First. Then Fire Bickerstaff. Now.

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8 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The grizzly should be taken at least 35 3 is regardless of pace

When you ignore pace you belittle your argument. Reality is that 35 three pt FG attempts would put us 4th in the league ahead of Atlanta who shoots 34.6 three point attempts a game. The Grizzlies are last by a large margin in FG attempts overall (82.1 FGA vs 84.7 for 29th place Utah). The Grizzlies take about 27 three point attempts a night. That means they are taking just under 1/3rd of their FG attempts are three pointers. 

At the teams current pace, taking 35 three point attempts a game would constitute over 42.5%. To put that into perspective Houston, the league leader in three point attempts take 50% of their total shots from the arc. Milwaukee, the 2nd most prolific three point attempts team takes just 43.5% of their total field goals attempts from behind the line. 

Then you have to factor in the longer rebounds generated from more three point attempts allowing opponents to get out and run against our defense more. I don't know exactly how to quantify that number but the Grizzlies are last in the league in rebounding so the impact would be negative I believe. I can't prove that of course but I think it is safe to assume that a team that is bad at rebounding wouldn't want teams to get more opportunities to run off of the missed attempts. 

I can empathize with your desire to replicate what appears to be working elsewhere but this team is built different than other teams. 

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4 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

960x540.jpg

slim.

Wallace traded her for two undrafted rookies. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

When you ignore pace you belittle your argument. Reality is that 35 three pt FG attempts would put us 4th in the league ahead of Atlanta who shoots 34.6 three point attempts a game. The Grizzlies are last by a large margin in FG attempts overall (82.1 FGA vs 84.7 for 29th place Utah). The Grizzlies take about 27 three point attempts a night. That means they are taking just under 1/3rd of their FG attempts are three pointers. 

At the teams current pace, taking 35 three point attempts a game would constitute over 42.5%. To put that into perspective Houston, the league leader in three point attempts take 50% of their total shots from the arc. Milwaukee, the 2nd most prolific three point attempts team takes just 43.5% of their total field goals attempts from behind the line. 

Then you have to factor in the longer rebounds generated from more three point attempts allowing opponents to get out and run against our defense more. I don't know exactly how to quantify that number but the Grizzlies are last in the league in rebounding so the impact would be negative I believe. I can't prove that of course but I think it is safe to assume that a team that is bad at rebounding wouldn't want teams to get more opportunities to run off of the missed attempts. 

I can empathize with your desire to replicate what appears to be working elsewhere but this team is built different than other teams. 

Again I don't see what the problem is.

I wasn't ignoring pace. I was saying that we need  to follow analytics

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I think we need to make 12 3-pointers a game.  

Give the ball to Slo Time and let him run the show.  With a steady diet of pick and rolls/pick and pops for Jaren.  Conley spots up with Marc at the high post (weak side?).  Temple in the corner for 3's but I also want that guy making some hard cuts.  

"2nd team" featuring Jevon/Mack, Dillon, and Jam with either Kyle or Jaren.  

So, maybe put Holiday out there with Mack as the two ball handlers off the bench.  Give Dillon the green light.  I wouldn't mind seeing more Rabb and less Noah.  

Jevon, Holiday, Dillon, Jam/Rabb with Jaren playing with the bench bunch gives us some scrappy play while giving our -- insert air quotes here -- "big two" a breather.

Ok, now how to we get to 12 deep ball makes a game?  Is that 34 or 35 attempts a game?  Wow. That's a lot.  5 each for Jaren, Marc, and Mike.  3 for Temple.  1 or 2 for Slo Mo.  Then 14 or 15 from our let-it-fly bench mob.  They can't really shoot anyway so they might as well take 3's.  Ok, 3 each for Holiday, Mack, and Dillon with Jam also taking a couple.  

Since Shelvin can't shoot anyway he might as well get all his bricks out the way as soon as possible.  Use him as the 6th man which gives you a 5 player bench mob of Jevon, Holiday, Dillon, Jam, and Rabb.  That lineup would feature gritty defense, hustle, hard fouls, rebounds (defensively AND offensively) and really, really, really bad shots.  Just hope you get some easy buckets and a decent amount of foul shots.

 

 

ALT GRIND

Home of the 10 1/2 man rotation.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Did we have different personnel then I'm just wondering

You were against the concept of the playing style 

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17 minutes ago, Allen said:

You were against the concept of the playing style 

if the Grizzlies had Steph Curry and Kevin Durant at that time I wouldn't have been against it.

I was arguing because of our personnel most everybody else was arguing based on analytics alone.

That's the difference

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Problem isn't more 3pta its more offensive rebounding.     Very underrated part of our success in our halfcourt offense in the past was the fact that we actually didn't hit most of our shots... on first attempt.      Offensive rebounding (putbacks) and steals were always a large part of the offense than we give credit.     None of our guys were really ever super efficient scorers its just that zbo cleaned up the glass that allowed us to keep pace offensively while playing tough defense.   

In order for this "give up offensive rebounding team to prevent transition offense defense" to be able to score now.   We have to be freaking elite offensively to offset that.    As we see clearly we don't have the personnel or scheme to do that. 

 I think its time for JB to maybe change that philosophy up to letting maybe 2 guys attack offensive glass and sending 3 guys back to prevent transition.    

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Before you start taking more 3's, you have to be able to make them. Step one is getting better at hitting corner 3's. They are the easiest 3 to make and the Grizzlies stink at it.

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15 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Before you start taking more 3's, you have to be able to make them. Step one is getting better at hitting corner 3's. They are the easiest 3 to make and the Grizzlies stink at it.

I agree with this one of the things I think JB Bickerstaff is at fault with is the fact that they never run plays for the corner 3.

This needs to be a part of their steady offense.

also think that part of the reason why the Grizzlies seems like they don't make enough threes is because their offense is so hard to get a rhythm in. and while they're slowing other teams down they are also slowing their own self down in the process

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3 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Again I don't see what the problem is.

I wasn't ignoring pace. I was saying that we need  to follow analytics

I don't think you read chip's post...

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3 hours ago, Zappastache said:

Am i crazy or has this thread title changed like 4 times? 😂

 

Yep, this thread was originally about DEFENSE not offense, and whether JB was the right coach.

Maybe KBM got a warning from Toke for starting too many threads?

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7 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Yep, this thread was originally about DEFENSE not offense, and whether JB was the right coach.

Maybe KBM got a warning from Toke for starting too many threads?

Well toke definitely doesn't want me to start a lot of threads, but I wasn't warned.

I just clarified my thoughts: four times in the last day and a half.

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I've been saying for a long time the Grizz should shoot more 3s because of the % they make is higher than 2s when you figure in the differential and the Grizz don't shot 2s that good. Plus that would open up the middle more.

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35 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Well toke definitely doesn't want me to start a lot of threads, but I wasn't warned.

I just clarified my thoughts: four times in the last day and a half.

Man, with the title change, and this, you starting to sound like Sean Spicer.

I can even picture him saying the new title of the thread

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We need a few things:

- Marc, when you are open and get the ball with 7 or less secs on shot clock, let it fly.  Please.  It's the right thing to do.  Hesitating is bad option.  Passing is bad option.  Shoot.  The.  Ball.

- Mike ... if Marc won't shoot, forget him and feed the kid.  It's ok.

- Team ... rebound.

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14 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

There should be no reason why the grizzlies should not be a top ten 3 point shooting team. Think about this for a moment:

Marc Gasol (if not the best 3 point shooting center in the league, he is close).

Jaren (has proven that he can hit 3s consistently)

Dillion Brooks (another guy that can get more threes if given the opportunity)

Justin Holiday (a great three point shooter at a high clip)

Mike Conley(Not a liability in this area) 

Jam Green (can hit 3 pointers consistently)

Temple (has made himself into a 3 point shooter)

Shelvin Mack (again, a good 3 point shooter)

Literally the only player that is in heavy rotation that is a liability in 3 point shooting is Kyle Anderson.

The entire grizzlies roster is filled with 3 and d players and yet the grizzlies are only shooting 26.9 threes a game. Something has to give. It is no exaggeration to say that the grizzlies should never lose the 3 point shooting battle. Not only can we hit 3s but we are the one team that should be able to guard the line better than most.

This is a referendum on JB Bickerstaffs tenture as the grizzlies head coach and the grizzlies (if they decide to fire Bickerstaff) need to be looking for a coach that can understand the potential of this roster.

My suggestion would be to hire: Jeff Bzdelik.

I'm not sure why the grizzlies ever let this guy go, but I think that wherever he went he made that team better. It's no surprise that the rockets played "like Memphis" last year to almost upset the golden state warriors, it was Bzdelik's doing.

Bzdelik rejoined the Rockets staff right around the time Carmelo left.

 

The bigger question is who is the defensive coach/scout because I think it is worth looking into. This team is getting worse defensively it seems as the year goes on. 

(Someone can check that)

 

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:09 PM, Kevin B Moses said:

Despite all of the doom and gloom, bringing in Holiday could certainly be an underrated move. Think about it: Mike, Holiday, Anderson/Brooks, Jaren and Marc should have the ability to shut down anybody. In fact, other than say Caspi, Noah and Temple (who are all good serviceable players), the grizzlies have all working parts. Nobody really doubles each other. The problem is health, stopping the 3 point shot and if we have the right coach.

The last one is the focus, because the grizzlies should be a #1 defensive team with this talent, but they are not and they are struggling to stop the 3 point shot. I know it is early in Bickerstaff's tenure, but the question remains if he has a vision for our defense, or if he is just a rah rah guy. 

This team should be over .500 by a lot, really.

The grizzlies really do have the makings of a great defensive team here. And holiday does have the ability to take the pressure off of mike.  

Ton of good points. I just wish we could play better D than we are right now. Losing to the nets needs to be the breaking point

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If the Grizzlies had two good offensive bigs they could dominate in the paint. Then when teams collapse they could bang open 3's the rest of the time. If they only had 2 bigs that can score....

Seriously though, KBM is on to something here. The team is not using their strengths to their advantage. Open 3's can be manufactured, and easily manufactured with Gasol and JJJ.

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7 hours ago, Father Pat said:

If the Grizzlies had two good offensive bigs they could dominate in the paint. Then when teams collapse they could bang open 3's the rest of the time. If they only had 2 bigs that can score....

Seriously though, KBM is on to something here. The team is not using their strengths to their advantage. Open 3's can be manufactured, and easily manufactured with Gasol and JJJ.

Yup, that's another way to take the pressure off of mike: it's the old Dwight howard, hakeem Olajuwon one-in four-out offense. I'm sorry, but I just don't see how Marc's high pnr helps generate 3s like it should with the spotup 3 point shooters we have.

The grizzlies offense and marc in particular still have this idea (a remnant of fizdale) that the grizzlies really need to emphasis the lane being clear (ala the insertion of Jam Green over zbo and then Marc standing behind the 3 point line) so that Mike can drive the lane, which is all well and good--- for MIKE, but when the rest of your team other than say Dillon Brooks at times can't take their man off the dribble, you get what we have been seeing: it's mike conley and nobody else.

To my mind the grizzlies need to have a modified one-in, four-out offense where the "action" is created by which guy (either Jaren or Marc) flashes to the lane and the other guy spots up for 3.

The high pnr throwback bs isn't working because there is no threat, no space and teams are just clogging the lane and are waiting to see what the grizzlies will do, unless it is Mike running it. Which is counterproductive, because the whole idea that they are trying to play Mike off the ball. Sure, teams say, do that. They know that shevin mack or temple or kyle are no threat in that "action" so it means nothing, especially when Marc 80% of the time doesn't shoot the ball. And they know that those other guys are more likely not going to beat them. 

If I were running the team, I might call up Mark Jackson and have him come out and try to use his "elevator" offensive principles and see how that would look with Marc and Jaren being the "popper". 

 

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