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It's early in the season, but here are Marc's numbers.  This decline had to come sometime, but I didn't expect it so soon or even this year.

2014 - 2015:  17.4 ppg, .494 FG%

2015 - 2016:  16.6 ppg, .464 FG%

2016 - 2017:  19.5 ppg, .459 FG%

2017 - 2018:  17.2 ppg, .420 FG%

2018 - 2019:  13.5 ppg, .348 FG%

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Why not? He’s a 34 year old 285 pound person with an injury history. In the entire history of the NBA how many centers are still at the top of their game at 34? He’s right at the age were big men historically fall off a cliff. 

He should have been traded when he still had value.The only reason he is still here is because the franchise is more concerned with selling tickets than winning 

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And at the same time he's arguably been the best player overall so far in 4 games we played. That's how much talent we have on the team lol. 

If he's out any extended period of time this season is over before it even started.‎

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53 minutes ago, cdp said:

And at the same time he's arguably been the best player overall so far in 4 games we played. That's how much talent we have on the team lol. 

If he's out any extended period of time this season is over before it even started.‎

Any update on his injury(s)?

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6 hours ago, GamesOut said:

It's early in the season, but here are Marc's numbers.  This decline had to come sometime, but I didn't expect it so soon or even this year.

2014 - 2015:  17.4 ppg, .494 FG%

2015 - 2016:  16.6 ppg, .464 FG%

2016 - 2017:  19.5 ppg, .459 FG%

2017 - 2018:  17.2 ppg, .420 FG%

2018 - 2019:  13.5 ppg, .348 FG%

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but making some kind of proclamation four games into the season is kind of silly, don't you think?

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7 hours ago, bhoyal said:

Any update on his injury(s)?

Apparently the team is waiting till they get back to Memphis to evaluate him. That's gotta be a good sign right? If they thought it was that bad they wouldn't be waiting to check him out.

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5 minutes ago, cdp said:

Apparently the team is waiting till they get back to Memphis to evaluate him. That's gotta be a good sign right? If they thought it was that bad they wouldn't be waiting to check him out.

That's what I was thinking. I think he might miss a week or two but I don't think anything major. So whos stepping up?

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26 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

guys i bet we play better with him out

Alternatively, you could do the research and realize we've been massively worse when he's out

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!?TeamID=1610612763&VsPlayerID=201188

A -30.5 net rating on/off differential is quite a feat in just three games. Last two seasons the differential was basically zero.

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3 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Alternatively, you could do the research and realize we've been massively worse when he's out

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!?TeamID=1610612763&VsPlayerID=201188

A -30.5 net rating on/off differential is quite a feat in just three games. Last two seasons the differential was basically zero.

i didnt say we played better with him off the court...i said we WILL play better with him out...future tense....also was conley  on the court with those numbers.

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1 hour ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

i didnt say we played better with him off the court...i said we WILL play better with him out...future tense....also was conley  on the court with those numbers.

Ah, ok, I read it wrong then.

As for the future, long term? Yeah, well, sure, if we substitute an aging player with a younger player of similar quality, no doubt we will play better. Now we just need to find that mythical substitute, because if all we do is take Marc out (because he leaves or declines further) you can already see the results.

As for Conley:

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612763&VsPlayerID=201144

His net rating differential is slightly less awful, just -17.5. But I'm not reading too much from these numbers, it's obvious that when either Marc or Mike are out the team suffers mightily, even if they're usual production is already down.

But anyway, this is exactly what happened when ZBo was removed from the equation with nobody taking up his role. Marc, Mike and ZBo were a unit that was more than the sum of its parts (TA was very important but in a different way that's not easy to capture in stats) and when ZBo left it had an impact in the way the team played. Even if some individual stats went up for Marc and Mike the overall ratings dropped. And I contend that it would have been the same if either Marc or Mike had left (easy to see from our record whenever they had extended injuries.) Back when we had the core 4 we could muddle through for a time when one core player went down, but now we just don't have the depth to sustain it.

I don't think that Marc is the problem (although at 34 his age is a problem) as much as not replacing ZBo with any player of comparable quality. That player was supposed to be Parsons, and we know how that went. JJJ might be able to fill ZBo's role (not in style of play, I mean in terms of overall quality) but unfortunately by the time he develops Marc and Mike will be out of the league or in bench veteran roles.

So the idea that we will get better if we just get rid of Marc (or Mike) is obviously wrong unless we get someone to replace him, and I don't see a path to do that until his contract becomes an expiring.

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It's not his numbers that bother me, it seems that he is a step slower and also his gas tank and energy is poor.  He's aging fair enough, but even outside of that.. his general body language doesn't seem very good.  It's as if he's still carrying around some of the habits of the tank year last year.

He's not even doing some of the things you'd expect, in terms of experience and being a stabilizing presence out there.  That airball in the forth the other day was a disaster.  It was like a panic shot.  There was a pass from Selden (I think) on the baseline and it was a bad pass but it was desperation and Marc seemed like he hardly even moved in trying to get to it.

It wouldn't surprise me if those numbers are at the same time that the Grizzlies changed their culture and tried to be Golden State, and Marc started playing further away from the paint.  He hits the 3's pretty well, but it sort of neglects the other strengths he has in his game if he is that far away from the basket all the time.

He was at this best when distributing the ball from the elbow and also posting up.  His interior passing is very good.  And his scoring is very efficient.  But he can't suddenly pretend he is an iso scorer and try to give you 30 a night.  He can score 1 on 1 when he's feeling it, but he can't carry you on his back all night long.  He's an unselfish, a reasonable scorer, good passer, good defender.. who can shoot well, and can play within the team system both on offense and defense.  It seems silly to play away from the paint as he gets older and is slowing down.. very counter intuitive.  It's only early though, some of these things can sort themselves out if the main group can play 10 or more games without any big injuries to anyone.  I'm hoping that JJJ and Marc can get a lot of time on court together because they could compliment each other quite well, in terms of their strengths and weaknesses.

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Good points - @Aussie Grizz Fan and @fanboyslim 

It is pretty clear that Gasol has officially started his decline.  He will have big games here and there but will no longer be able to sustain that consistently.    Parsons is a dud and can't be counted on for anything.   Mike can be consistent but not dynamic enough by himself to turn the tide for us.    As far as scoring goes we have literally no other experienced players on roster that can step up enough to offset our complete dependence on Mike and Marc.     Jaren is really the only hope we have and I worry that he may not be ready to be thrust into that position just yet.    

However, JJJ has already shown IMHO that he can take the mantle of 2nd best offensive player on the squad by the end of the season.    His post moves are already more advanced than Gasols and his ability to create his own shot is just advanced.   Gasol is a much better passer and may be a better outside shooter, but those are the only places where he is above JJJ at this point.   

Smart move may be to shift the offense back to high-low with JJJ and Gasol and pick and rolls with Mike and JJJ/Gasol.   Go ahead and make him officially the 3rd option because frankly who else on this roster can be that??

This is where we miss Tyreke and why the whole thing was ridiculous.   

I say JB needs to figure out how to get Marshon going and truly integrate JJJ into the offense if he wants to sniff the playoffs this season.    MIke, Marc, Marshon, and JJJ are literally the only true potentially capable offensive players we have.   Everyone else ceiling is role-player at best.  

Seeing JJJ really makes me consider the tank one more season.    His talent level is so much higher than Dillon, Wayne, Rabb and the rest.  We need atleast one more guy like him on the roster if we have any chance for a real future.      JJJ and a bunch of 2nd rounders aint gonna get it down once Mike and Marc truly fall off. 

 

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Marc is still 33 folks. he doesn't turn 34 until January. 😕 

 

January 29, 1985

 

This board kills me. he has a great game and all of a sudden the homers are out. We have a bad game and everyone wants to trade gasol. Its nuts. this board is bi-polar. 

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Marc Gasol may have started his decline but using his field goal percentage as an indicator of it, I think is pretty thin evidence.

The fact that he shoots over 40% from where he shoots from is pretty remarkable. 

I personally don't think that Marc has declined that much.

I just think that the premise of this team is flawed. You can't expect Mike and Marc to be all you need in order to win.

Hell the Rockets have Chris Paul James Harden and Carmelo Anthony and they're still trying to add Jimmy Butler.

I mean give me a break. Robert Perez putting too much on the shoulders of Mike and Marc alone.

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I don't think Marc has declined that much either. Is there a decline? sure, I think it is slight and understandable as he gets older. but he can still shoot at a high percentage and rebound as well. If he hadn't gone out against Sac he probably would have had another 18 point 12 rebound game (purse speculation I realize), but with him in we probably finish better and maybe get out of there on a bad shooting night with a W

 

GD it Parsons...... 

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Good points - @Aussie Grizz Fan and @fanboyslim 

It is pretty clear that Gasol has officially started his decline.  He will have big games here and there but will no longer be able to sustain that consistently.    Parsons is a dud and can't be counted on for anything.   Mike can be consistent but not dynamic enough by himself to turn the tide for us.    As far as scoring goes we have literally no other experienced players on roster that can step up enough to offset our complete dependence on Mike and Marc.     Jaren is really the only hope we have and I worry that he may not be ready to be thrust into that position just yet.    

However, JJJ has already shown IMHO that he can take the mantle of 2nd best offensive player on the squad by the end of the season.    His post moves are already more advanced than Gasols and his ability to create his own shot is just advanced.   Gasol is a much better passer and may be a better outside shooter, but those are the only places where he is above JJJ at this point.   

Smart move may be to shift the offense back to high-low with JJJ and Gasol and pick and rolls with Mike and JJJ/Gasol.   Go ahead and make him officially the 3rd option because frankly who else on this roster can be that??

This is where we miss Tyreke and why the whole thing was ridiculous.   

I say JB needs to figure out how to get Marshon going and truly integrate JJJ into the offense if he wants to sniff the playoffs this season.    MIke, Marc, Marshon, and JJJ are literally the only true potentially capable offensive players we have.   Everyone else ceiling is role-player at best.  

Seeing JJJ really makes me consider the tank one more season.    His talent level is so much higher than Dillon, Wayne, Rabb and the rest.  We need atleast one more guy like him on the roster if we have any chance for a real future.      JJJ and a bunch of 2nd rounders aint gonna get it down once Mike and Marc truly fall off. 

 

Two points:
First, why is it that the Grizzlies seem capable of finding #2 guys but can never find a lead scorer/leader? 

Second, is tanking this season an option or will it be an admittance of what the team has become? In other words, will this team have the "option" of tanking or will tanking be thrust upon the team? 

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Two points:
First, why is it that the Grizzlies seem capable of finding #2 guys but can never find a lead scorer/leader? 

Second, is tanking this season an option or will it be an admittance of what the team has become? In other words, will this team have the "option" of tanking or will tanking be thrust upon the team? 

# 1- Man I second you there... Can JJJ be a first option once he matures?

2. too early to tell. If we get the injury bug (which we seem to be catching already) it will be another long year. 

 

what worries me the most is as a small market team we need to win to keep folks coming to the games. there is a lot of excitement around the Tigers right now with Penny coming back. I would venture to guess that most Memphians can't afford to be a full time supporter of both. I know all the arguments against it, but I legit worry that we could eventually lose the team to Seattle. In spite of the buyout clause. in spite of the rock solid contract. I legit lose sleep over it. Which is one of the biggest reasons I am on the "lets win now" bandwagen. I would prefer us be a perenial competitive playoff team like the Spurs, even if we rarely compete for the big one, than I would see us tank a few years and risk upsetting our in game attendance base. 

 

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Two points:
First, why is it that the Grizzlies seem capable of finding #2 guys but can never find a lead scorer/leader? 

Second, is tanking this season an option or will it be an admittance of what the team has become? In other words, will this team have the "option" of tanking or will tanking be thrust upon the team? 

True Alpha scorers are just rare its a numbers game.  Draft is full of guys that can become complimentary or secondary scorers.  

 

Tanking may be beyond our control if Mike and Marc aren't healthy. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Ah, ok, I read it wrong then.

As for the future, long term? Yeah, well, sure, if we substitute an aging player with a younger player of similar quality, no doubt we will play better. Now we just need to find that mythical substitute, because if all we do is take Marc out (because he leaves or declines further) you can already see the results.

As for Conley:

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612763&VsPlayerID=201144

His net rating differential is slightly less awful, just -17.5. But I'm not reading too much from these numbers, it's obvious that when either Marc or Mike are out the team suffers mightily, even if they're usual production is already down.

But anyway, this is exactly what happened when ZBo was removed from the equation with nobody taking up his role. Marc, Mike and ZBo were a unit that was more than the sum of its parts (TA was very important but in a different way that's not easy to capture in stats) and when ZBo left it had an impact in the way the team played. Even if some individual stats went up for Marc and Mike the overall ratings dropped. And I contend that it would have been the same if either Marc or Mike had left (easy to see from our record whenever they had extended injuries.) Back when we had the core 4 we could muddle through for a time when one core player went down, but now we just don't have the depth to sustain it.

I don't think that Marc is the problem (although at 34 his age is a problem) as much as not replacing ZBo with any player of comparable quality. That player was supposed to be Parsons, and we know how that went. JJJ might be able to fill ZBo's role (not in style of play, I mean in terms of overall quality) but unfortunately by the time he develops Marc and Mike will be out of the league or in bench veteran roles.

So the idea that we will get better if we just get rid of Marc (or Mike) is obviously wrong unless we get someone to replace him, and I don't see a path to do that until his contract becomes an expiring.

i actually think JJJ could ave 20/10 right now...well maybe more  like 18/7 if he was the focal point of the offense...he really hasnt came across a big that can stop him yet...him and conley is our best scores...i really feel like marc should be 4th in the pecking order in a lineup of 

1st conely

2nd jjj

3rd temple

4th gasol

5th parsons or slowmo

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On 10/26/2018 at 1:19 PM, Memphisyank said:

# 1- Man I second you there... Can JJJ be a first option once he matures?

2. too early to tell. If we get the injury bug (which we seem to be catching already) it will be another long year. 

 

what worries me the most is as a small market team we need to win to keep folks coming to the games. there is a lot of excitement around the Tigers right now with Penny coming back. I would venture to guess that most Memphians can't afford to be a full time supporter of both. I know all the arguments against it, but I legit worry that we could eventually lose the team to Seattle. In spite of the buyout clause. in spite of the rock solid contract. I legit lose sleep over it. Which is one of the biggest reasons I am on the "lets win now" bandwagen. I would prefer us be a perenial competitive playoff team like the Spurs, even if we rarely compete for the big one, than I would see us tank a few years and risk upsetting our in game attendance base. 

 

Same here. We have to win AND showcase our exciting young guys (JJJ/Yuta). 

So we have to have BOTH brands -- Grit/Grind 2.0 aka Alt Grind AND Alt Dunky Land (once DJ Stephens plays for the main roster).  

The next 2 or 3 drafts are gonna be more than critical. We also can't have a 4 or 5 year playoff drought.  

IF Marc resigns and takes a "hometown discount" that would be cool.  He could be a "Core Guy" for a few more years even if not a 1st or 2nd option.  

Oh, and lucking into a player like Zion Williamson or James Wiseman every once in awhile would help too.  

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9 minutes ago, Memphisyank said:

Grizzlies have their worst net rating -22 when Gasol is off the floor.

We are 5 games into the season, this number will get better.

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The decline of Marc Gasol was going to happen. We have to look at the facts that he is a 34 year old 11 year veteran big man. It is still early in the season to make many statistical assumptions, with being 5 games in. I think you need to look at game intervals of 20 games. After 20 games we should get a good idea of what each player on the team will bring to the table. I can see Marc finishing with an average of 16/9 which in the grand scheme of things is not bad for a 34 year old injury plagued big man.

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