Sign in to follow this  
Teddy.B

Treating the Syptoms not the Disease

Recommended Posts

All the threads started after the embarrassing loss only deals with patch working around the larger problem. Who will be traded first? What rotations should be played? How long will JB last? All these while legit questions are not going to make this organization better in the long run. 

The larger problem and first move forward towards being a competitive organization is to get rid of Chris Wallace and rework the entire FO. They, like the production on the court are too familiar, stale and lacking in competitive fire. All they want to do is temporarily make the playoffs and keep their jobs with this subpar roster instead of looking realistically at the team and re-building for a winning future. 

I don't even care to go specifically into Chris Wallace's numerous mistakes of which he has many. In Chris Wallace's entire history as GM he has made one good trade and one good signing. Pau to the lakers trade which got us Marc and the ability to sign ZBO and then after, the signing of T.A. No doubt he built that team, but after that he has done nothing but try to sell the future to complement that team. He has let asset after asset walk, he has blown pick after pick, signed injured substandard players and the one that will haunt us like the Otis Thorpe trade. This current team will at least be bad for the next two years forget that snake oil the FO is trying to sell. Which means that we will likely keep our top 8 protected pick this year, be bad again next year therefore keep that top 6 pick and nightmarishly give up our unprotected 2021 pick when the roster is depleted. Sure things can/will happen before that(obviously the two max contracts in play) but the premise here is that I don't trust Chris Wallace to make the best decisions for this team.  

 

I cannot fathom a Chris Wallace led FO trying to build this team for the future. Please first things first, Chris Wallace must go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. His exit is long overdue. But for some reason he is untouchable. At first it was because of his playoff streak. Now I dont know why that is the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Yes. His exit is long overdue. But for some reason he is untouchable. At first it was because of his playoff streak. Now I dont know why that is the case.

At this point, I wouldn’t be opposed to implementing a fan-boycott of the franchise until Wallace is removed. We’ve dealt with this crap for too long, and have a sub par, or downright terrible team for far too many seasons with him in the driver’s seat. Maybe ownership will finally take notice if it starts to hit them in the wallet.

No attendance, no merchandise purchases, no league pass subscriptions, ZERO dollars go into Pera and company’s pocket until Wallace is out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, GTG said:

At this point, I wouldn’t be opposed to implementing a fan-boycott of the franchise until Wallace is removed. We’ve dealt with this crap for too long, and have a sub par, or downright terrible team for far too many seasons with him in the driver’s seat. Maybe ownership will finally take notice if it starts to hit them in the wallet.

No attendance, no merchandise purchases, no league pass subscriptions, ZERO dollars go into Pera and company’s pocket until Wallace is out. 

That is patently insane.  I think Chris Wallace's time has past too, but good grief, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Just wait 'til the team is moved to Seattle as a result of this boycott.  That'll show you, Chris!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dwash said:

Yes. His exit is long overdue. But for some reason he is untouchable. At first it was because of his playoff streak. Now I dont know why that is the case.

I suspect Chris Wallace's job description and marching instructions aren't what we think they are, and he is actually doing as told.

I mean, think about it:

https://eu.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2018/06/12/grizzlies-owner-robert-pera-expects-team-win-50-plus-games/695852002/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

I suspect Chris Wallace's job description and marching instructions aren't what we think they are, and he is actually doing as told.

I mean, think about it:

https://eu.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2018/06/12/grizzlies-owner-robert-pera-expects-team-win-50-plus-games/695852002/

 

This maybe true....but I would think a good GM could present a long term vision to stay relevant. As long as you use facts when presenting (ie. using past examples to show how investing in the future can help your franchise and the overall success rate vs. the downfall of not folding before the assets are dry) any good billionaire business man like Mr. Pera would probably listen.

As it stands who is in a worst position to get better than Memphis? Maybe Charlotte is close.

Poor roster not suited for the current NBA

No Allstar level talent

Limited trade assets. Two best players would be a load to move financially alone

No cap space

Large overpriced deals on the books

Owe a draft pick that could be unprotected.

Only one young player of value.

I mean I get that a portion of fans screamed that this day would come for YEARS and no one would listen. So maybe Mr. Pera just turned a blind eye to it. At the same time if Wallace saw it coming and ownership didnt care I would think he would start putting in applications elsewhere. Maybe not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

All the threads started after the embarrassing loss only deals with patch working around the larger problem. Who will be traded first? What rotations should be played? How long will JB last? All these while legit questions are not going to make this organization better in the long run. 

The larger problem and first move forward towards being a competitive organization is to get rid of Chris Wallace and rework the entire FO. They, like the production on the court are too familiar, stale and lacking in competitive fire. All they want to do is temporarily make the playoffs and keep their jobs with this subpar roster instead of looking realistically at the team and re-building for a winning future. 

I don't even care to go specifically into Chris Wallace's numerous mistakes of which he has many. In Chris Wallace's entire history as GM he has made one good trade and one good signing. Pau to the lakers trade which got us Marc and the ability to sign ZBO and then after, the signing of T.A. No doubt he built that team, but after that he has done nothing but try to sell the future to complement that team. He has let asset after asset walk, he has blown pick after pick, signed injured substandard players and the one that will haunt us like the Otis Thorpe trade. This current team will at least be bad for the next two years forget that snake oil the FO is trying to sell. Which means that we will likely keep our top 8 protected pick this year, be bad again next year therefore keep that top 6 pick and nightmarishly give up our unprotected 2021 pick when the roster is depleted. Sure things can/will happen before that(obviously the two max contracts in play) but the premise here is that I don't trust Chris Wallace to make the best decisions for this team.  

 

I cannot fathom a Chris Wallace led FO trying to build this team for the future. Please first things first, Chris Wallace must go.

Co-sign.

 

I would also be willing to sign any legitimate petition, online or otherwise, to this effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

 

The larger problem and first move forward towards being a competitive organization is to get rid of Chris Wallace and rework the entire FO. They, like the production on the court are too familiar, stale and lacking in competitive fire. All they want to do is temporarily make the playoffs and keep their jobs with this subpar roster instead of looking realistically at the team and re-building for a winning future. 

I cannot fathom a Chris Wallace led FO trying to build this team for the future. Please first things first, Chris Wallace must go.

Of course Chis Wallace and the front office in general is the problem BUT.......

3 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I suspect Chris Wallace's job description and marching instructions aren't what we think they are, and he is actually doing as told.

I mean, think about it:

https://eu.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2018/06/12/grizzlies-owner-robert-pera-expects-team-win-50-plus-games/695852002/

 

ITA with this. He's doing what he is told to do. We assume he is trying to put the best, most competitive team out on the court when in actuality, ownership has a totally different view on what the team should do. That's why I don't put it pass teh fO to trade Mike and/or Marc for peanuts and probably dump Parsons for some future second round picks and even more debt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what IS the ownership trying to do? Even if there is an unspoken underlying suspicion that Joe Abadi is really in charge and Wallace is just the bobble-head fall man, it can't mean that the owner is deliberately trying to destroy the future of his team right?

 

If that's the case, why even bother supporting this team?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

I cannot fathom a Chris Wallace led FO trying to build this team for the future. Please first things first, Chris Wallace must go.

Does the evidence support that a "Wallace led FO" exists?

What is more likely, that Wallace is allowed to make the moves that have been made and still have a job, or that he is the G.M. in name only?

Our idea's of how we want the future of this team to look and the manner to get there may not be the same idea's of ownership. Pera may very well be running this franchise exactly how he wants for the future he envisions for this franchise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as Chris Wallace is employed by the Grizzlies every bad move will be blamed on him and no one else even though he’s obviously not calling the shots (Exhibit A we went a whole summer without going after 1 player because he was highly rated in high school), this tells me he ain’t going nowhere. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m sorry but I struggle with the whole “Wallace isn’t in charge” conspiracy theory. Sure Pera and Abadi are final approval makers but Wallace is the man with the title. All teams GM’s ultimately answer to the owners. That doesn't mean all GM’s are blameless for the actions the team makes. 

Pera is clearly not running the team like Heisley did when he was in the draft room making decisions (Hasheem Thabeet) and going on interviews with free agents (Allen Iverson). Pera listens to the man he has in the position and gives him the benefit of the doubt. Wallace said the Grizzlies were a 50 win team next season long before Pera repeated it. 

I could be way off basis here but I believe Wallace has more control now than he did under Heisley, not less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I just cant believe Wallace is being force fed decisions to make. If Pera says he wants 50 wins, then he needs to tell him and convince him its not possible.  HE is the head basketball mind, not Pera. Wallace is also the one who sat on Kosta Koufus when his teams lost pick to Cleveland was available for him to reacquire then traded a pick that could be a detrimental loss soon for Jeff Green. Could have probably traded that earlier pick in 2015-16 for Green instead if you deal Koufus. I dont believe someone was up there demanding we keep Koufus. Its little failures like that along the way which is the problem. So lets not try to make Wallace blameless here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, the whole Reke at the trading deadline fiasco said it all. Reke was told - by Wallace-  to go home, he was being traded to a contender. Odds were he was not coming back after the season anyway. So the team is out of the playoff race and deep into the lottery run. Tank city. The best case scenario for the franchise at that point is the #1 pick in the coming draft. Instead of taking the best offer, Wallace does not trade Reke. He just soiled his already damaged reputation with all player agents and future free agents in the process. Why? Was that worth it to Wallace to get nothing for a player you were losing at the end of a 22 win season because the best offer wasn't what you wanted? He gained nothing and lost credibility throughout the league. Why would he do that willingly? 

He either has absolutely no vision for the future, cementing the idea to even a child that he should be fired, or he once again was just following orders and collecting a paycheck.

Pera would have to be a mindless idiot to keep Wallace employed if he wasn't doing what he wanted him to be doing, and Pera is not a mindless idiot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yes, I just cant believe Wallace is being force fed decisions to make. If Pera says he wants 50 wins, then he needs to tell him and convince him its not possible.  HE is the head basketball mind, not Pera. Wallace is also the one who sat on Kosta Koufus when his teams lost pick to Cleveland was available for him to reacquire then traded a pick that could be a detrimental loss soon for Jeff Green. Could have probably traded that earlier pick in 2015-16 for Green instead if you deal Koufus. I dont believe someone was up there demanding we keep Koufus. Its little failures like that along the way which is the problem. So lets not try to make Wallace blameless here.

But that’s the thing. I don’t think CW is just a figurehead being micromanaged by Pera or Abadi, but I do think he is being given impossible targets (get 50 wins, make the playoffs every season...) and he has no incentive to antagonize the owner by calling him out.

CW knows there isn’t another GM position waiting for him if he leaves or gets fired, so he just keeps making tactical moves with no long term vision, while making sure we don’t go into the tax and keeping a ready list of plausible excuses (our core players got injured, trade negotiations broke down at the last minute, the coach didn’t fit the direction we wanted...) so if/when everything goes off the rails he can pull one out and remain employed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

In Chris Wallace's entire history as GM he has made one good trade and one good signing. 

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Give credit where credits due. He made TWO good trades. Chalmers+Ennis for Udrih+Stokes was a great trade. Give him that much lol.

Nah but for real it's time for Wallace to go. Before we trade or fire anyone else, because he can't be the one making future long-term decisions for the team anymore. He's worn out his welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

But that’s the thing. I don’t think CW is just a figurehead being micromanaged by Pera or Abadi, but I do think he is being given impossible targets (get 50 wins, make the playoffs every season...) and he has no incentive to antagonize the owner by calling him out.

CW knows there isn’t another GM position waiting for him if he leaves or gets fired, so he just keeps making tactical moves with no long term vision, while making sure we don’t go into the tax and keeping a ready list of plausible excuses (our core players got injured, trade negotiations broke down at the last minute, the coach didn’t fit the direction we wanted...) so if/when everything goes off the rails he can pull one out and remain employed.

Ok well I can see that. The question then becomes if he keeps shaking his head up and down to these impossible targets and its never reached AND he told them he could get them...when does the owner look at him? Thats why I would think its in his best interest to be upfront about what is really possible cause it seems that his current approach could only last so long (if this is his approach).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, cdp said:

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Give credit where credits due. He made TWO good trades. Chalmers+Ennis for Udrih+Stokes was a great trade. Give him that much lol.

Nah but for real it's time for Wallace to go. Before we trade or fire anyone else, because he can't be the one making future long-term decisions for the team anymore. He's worn out his welcome.

Don't forget trading to get Ivan Rabb and Dillon Brooks. 

Of course that was kind of offset by giving up the Clippers 2019 first round pick for Deyonta Davis and Rade Zagorac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I’m sorry but I struggle with the whole “Wallace isn’t in charge” conspiracy theory. Sure Pera and Abadi are final approval makers but Wallace is the man with the title. All teams GM’s ultimately answer to the owners. That doesn't mean all GM’s are blameless for the actions the team makes. 

Pera is clearly not running the team like Heisley did when he was in the draft room making decisions (Hasheem Thabeet) and going on interviews with free agents (Allen Iverson). Pera listens to the man he has in the position and gives him the benefit of the doubt. Wallace said the Grizzlies were a 50 win team next season long before Pera repeated it. 

I could be way off basis here but I believe Wallace has more control now than he did under Heisley, not less.

I find this very hard to believe. In one of Vince Carter's first interviews after signing with the Grizzlies, he let it slip that he had met with people from the Grizzlies before he signed, but never met Wallace until after he signed.

It also seems to me that the FO is much more closed now than just a few years ago. I am no longer in the Memphis area, but Wallace used to be on the radio weekly and there was often something from the teams beat writer (Ron Ron) in the paper. I get the impression that is no longer the case. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

I find this very hard to believe. In one of Vince Carter's first interviews after signing with the Grizzlies, he let it slip that he had met with people from the Grizzlies before he signed, but never met Wallace until after he signed.

It also seems to me that the FO is much more closed now than just a few years ago. I am no longer in the Memphis area, but Wallace used to be on the radio weekly and there was often something from the teams beat writer (Ron Ron) in the paper. I get the impression that is no longer the case. 

I hadn't heard that and it is vague enough that you would be led to believe it could mean anything from a player to Pera. Do you remember where that rumor was? I'd like to see it in context. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

So what IS the ownership trying to do? Even if there is an unspoken underlying suspicion that Joe Abadi is really in charge and Wallace is just the bobble-head fall man, it can't mean that the owner is deliberately trying to destroy the future of his team right?

 

If that's the case, why even bother supporting this team?

Abadi is no longer with the team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Father Pat said:

I find this very hard to believe. In one of Vince Carter's first interviews after signing with the Grizzlies, he let it slip that he had met with people from the Grizzlies before he signed, but never met Wallace until after he signed.

It also seems to me that the FO is much more closed now than just a few years ago. I am no longer in the Memphis area, but Wallace used to be on the radio weekly and there was often something from the teams beat writer (Ron Ron) in the paper. I get the impression that is no longer the case. 

Wallace stopped doing interviews last season but did a couple in the offseason to talk draft stuff the Franchise know Wallace isn't a fan favorite  especially  when he comes on the radio cause he never answers the questions  so they probably just told him to stop doing interviews. Especially, during a tank season where the fans were calling  for his head

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Wallace not being fired for the Parsons debacle is confirmation that he isn’t the one really calling the shots 

If an employee makes a mistake that costs a company 94 million dollars they typically get fired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I hadn't heard that and it is vague enough that you would be led to believe it could mean anything from a player to Pera. Do you remember where that rumor was? I'd like to see it in context. 

It was from what I believe was Vince's first interview with the team, about a month after he signed. I can't find it now.

All the same, I'm sure you remember Wallace was definitely just an empty suit during the time Levien was running things. He did absolutely nothing other than cash his paychecks during that time. Point being that if he was ok with that then, he would probably be ok with it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this