Greater Memphis Grind

Jarrell Martin to Orlando

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6 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

thanks for proving my point the team was built in free agency...and yes it did start off with a HOF put we all no one player cant win a ring...hmm i wonder were all these hof's help come from...was it the almighty draft...no it was freeagency and trades...also cavs didnt draft lebron on that championship team...we was signed (freeagency) to that team...get it right

Cleveland drafted Lebron. He left via free agency and returned but he was originally drafted by Cleveland. I got it right. 

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1 hour ago, Zappastache said:
Quote

2009 #2: Hasheem Thabeet - traded with Carroll, 2013 1st for Battier and Ish Smith in his 2nd year

2009 #27: DeMarre Carroll - traded with Thabeet in his 2nd year

2010 #12: Xavier Henry - traded for Mo Speights in his 2nd year

2010 #25: Dominique Jones - traded on draft night for cash

2010 #28: Greivis Vasquez - traded for Quincy Pondexter after his 1st season

2012 #25: Tony Wroten - traded for a 2nd and cash considerations after his 1st season

2014 #22: Jordan Adams - cut after his 2nd season

2015 #25: Jarell Martin - traded with cash for Dakari Johnson after his 3rd season

2016 #17: Wade Baldwin IV - cut after his 1st season

With that list, I'd say it's mainly answer #1, with a couple of debatable answer #2.

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

Cleveland drafted Lebron. He left via free agency and returned but he was originally drafted by Cleveland. I got it right. 

if you think you got that right says alot about your personality...no use of even conversation with you..i see you will twist reality to your own liking...DETROIT PISTONS

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3 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

if you think you got that right says alot about your personality...no use of even conversation with you..i see you will twist reality to your own liking...DETROIT PISTONS

The Pistons won a championship without drafting a hall of fame player first. That is once in the last 15 years or so. How is that easier than the other 14 champions that drafted the star first and then built around him? 

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15 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

The Pistons won a championship without drafting a hall of fame player first. That is once in the last 15 years or so. How is that easier than the other 14 champions that drafted the star first and then built around him? 

just answer this one question which is easier

to be bad at the right time to get a high draft pick...for a hall of fame player to even be in said draft..for said hof to live up to his potential...for said hall of famer to stay with team long enough to even build around him

or

just have enough cap space and sign three allstars/hofs...simple.

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9 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

just answer this one question which is easier

to be bad at the right time to get a high draft pick...for a hall of fame player to even be in said draft..for said hof to live up to his potential...for said hall of famer to stay with team long enough to even build around him

or

just have enough cap space and sign three allstars...simple.

Sounds simple on paper but how do you actually do that...in Memphis? The best free agent Memphis has ever signed is Chandler Parsons. I've seen big market teams fail in their attempts at this strategy. How do you see that working in Memphis? 

In my opinion it is far easier in Memphis to draft a star and build around him than to try and entice 3 stars here without a single one already on the roster. 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Sounds simple on paper but how do you actually do that...in Memphis? The best free agent Memphis has ever signed is Chandler Parsons. I've seen big market teams fail in their attempts at this strategy. How do you see that working in Memphis? 

first off i wasnt just talking about memphis..second thats the only way memphis can build a contending team...our best team was built in freeagency/trades unless you wanna call conley/gasol  hofs... and it not hard to obtain a hof...houston,gsw,lakers,raptors?,maimi and plenty other have signed hof through free agency..that the help you was talking about.

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1 minute ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

first off i wasnt just talking about memphis..second thats the only way memphis can build a contending team...our best team was built in freeagency/trades unless you wanna call conley/gasol  hofs... and it not hard to obtain a hof...houston,gsw,lakers,raptors?,maimi and plenty other have signed hof through free agency..that the help you was talking about.

You confuse me again. Are you now saying that Memphis' best team wasn't built on the foundation of Conley and Gasol? We have to agree to disagree here. Memphis has never been a championship team but clearly their best teams were built off the basis of Conley and Marc Gasol. The second best team was built on the foundation of Pau Gasol and Shane Battier as well. 

Houston, if they ever win a title, would be another Detroit but GSW, the Lakers, and every championship team except Detroit since 2000 has been built with a strong draft pick as the first piece. Then having a large market and a desirable location doesn't hurt to recruit stars to join the drafted player. 

If you believe all Memphis has to do is clear up cap space and sign three stars you are deluding yourself to the reality of today's NBA. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You confuse me again. Are you now saying that Memphis' best team wasn't built on the foundation of Conley and Gasol? We have to agree to disagree here. Memphis has never been a championship team but clearly their best teams were built off the basis of Conley and Marc Gasol. The second best team was built on the foundation of Pau Gasol and Shane Battier as well. 

Houston, if they ever win a title, would be another Detroit but GSW, the Lakers, and every championship team except Detroit since 2000 has been built with a strong draft pick as the first piece. Then having a large market and a desirable location doesn't hurt to recruit stars to join the drafted player. 

If you believe all Memphis has to do is clear up cap space and sign three stars you are deluding yourself to the reality of today's NBA. 

we was garbage under conley/gasol leadership...ta/zbo right the ship conley and gasol were sidekicks...the pau/shane team couldnt even win a playoff game...so there is no way for memphis to build a champion team...cant suck long enough to get more hof in the draft because fanbase/market not strong enough...not good enough to sign hof in free agency...yeah they might as well just move this joke of a team to seattle. lastly all those team was built with  strong free agency.

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3 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

lmao...i never heard anyone say said team had a great draft now they are contenders...free agency/trades is how you build title contenders.

 

And what exactly are you "trading?" Players you can trade dont fall out of the sky. Ie, when the Spurs traded George Hill for the Kawai Leonard draft pick, guess what? They had to draft George Hill. The most valuable thing in a trade is typically future picks or young players. So even with that, it starts with acquiring good future picks/making good picks that people want.

 

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28 minutes ago, Dwash said:

And what exactly are you "trading?" Players you can trade dont fall out of the sky. Ie, when the Spurs traded George Hill for the Kawai Leonard draft pick, guess what? They had to draft George Hill. The most valuable thing in a trade is typically future picks or young players. So even with that, it starts with acquiring good future picks/making good picks that people want.

 

trade those roll of the dice draft picks for bonafide proven stars.

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1 hour ago, Elillo said:

With that list, I'd say it's mainly answer #1, with a couple of debatable answer #2.

Man wish my reddit thread discussion didn't get buried in whatever this argument is between Chip and PutARingOnIt....

Maybe I should pull a KBM and start my own thread ?

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14 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

trade those roll of the dice draft picks for bonafide proven stars.

So who should we trade JJJ for right now thats going to get the ring? Since its "easy" to get a hof talent by trade as you said?

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13 minutes ago, Dwash said:

So who should we trade JJJ for right now thats going to get the ring? Since its "easy" to get a hof talent by trade as you said?

i was talking about lottery picks...not a particular player...i said it was easy to SIGN a hof player not trade..but we could of package gasol and our first and got kawhi.

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29 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

i was talking about lottery picks...not a particular player...i said it was easy to SIGN a hof player not trade..but we could of package gasol and our first and got kawhi.

When did it become easy to signed HOF players?

Golden State Warriors - Most of their players were drafted, after winning championships then they got Durant on free agency.
Cleveland Cavaliers - Lebron came back, because he had unfinished business.
San Antonio Spurs - Draft
Miami Heat - Dwayne Wade recruited Lebron and Bosh. This is the closest to your scenario.
Dallas Mavericks - HOF drafted, support players brought on free agency.
Los Angeles Lakers - Memphis trade plus draft.
Boston - Once in a lifetime trade sequence.

No, it is not easy to sign a HOF, if you don't have something extremely good establish first. The only team that has done what you are suggesting is the current Lakers team, and we have no idea if it will win anything. And they did it, because they are the Lakers. 100% a post NBA business move from Lebron James.

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On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:18 PM, Greater Memphis Grind said:
@wojespn 45s45 seconds ago
Memphis has agreed to trade Jarrell Martin and cash to Orlando for Dakari Johnson, league sources tell ESPN.

what happen to our 7 foot 2 round 2 from china

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7 hours ago, Elillo said:

With that list, I'd say it's mainly answer #1, with a couple of debatable answer #2.

every one of those player are out of the league after martin is let go the next 1/2 years  

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9 hours ago, Dwash said:

You guys always throw out these other franchise names like the Grizzlies werent the joke of the league for several years or cant easily become that even while "trying" to make the playoffs. No plan is guaranteed success, tanking or trying to stay decent, both plans have success stories and have had major blowups.

If its your preference to just try to stay decent thats cool but lets stop this lame excuse as if the only bad teams tried to tank. Many just landed there after a long playoff run (eg, Kings, Wolves, Magic) and got stuck and the Griizzlies could easily be next. The teams that historically avoided long dead periods like the Bulls, Pacers, Jazz, Blazers, recent Celtics imo managed to get a high level future asset before their core was dead and for the most part protected future picks.

And whoever said trade/free agency is the way to build is completely lost and needs to do some research. It starts with picks. Trades are just swaps of assets and free agency is just a bunch of teams paying for someones past performance. Draft picks are the most likely asset to outperform their contract and they are bound to year for atleast 7-9 years during their best years. Thats why GMs covet them so much (except ours obviously).

Are you saying none of those other franchises weren't or aren't the joke of the league?  Most expansion teams are a joke for a few years.  I'm just saying that tanking is not a recipe for success.  Sure, you could give me a couple of instances where it may have actually worked, but there are far more that did not.

I do not like trading first round picks at all unless there is a bona fide star in the deal.  This franchise has made some stupid first round trades and I hope they're through with that.  The Thabeet/Carroll trade, and the Speights/Ellington/Selby for Leuer threw away first round picks.  Those two make the Jeff Green trade look good.

I agree you're not going to get it done with just trades and free agency, in our case especially the free agent part since Memphis is not realistically a destination of choice.  I have seen some posts where people thought we should trade away picks simply because we didn't pick well.  I think that's absurd.  If you haven't been picking well, start learning to pick better.  Hire better scouts and GMs.

To build a good team you have to use all the tools at your disposal, draft, trades, free agency, two-ways, 10 days, and undrafted/G-League.  But also building a team requires time together, several seasons with coaching and player stability with most of your core players to develop identity and chemistry.  Some folks around here want to tank, change coaches or half the players on the roster every couple years if we don't win a championship.  That's a recipe for failure.

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9 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

He won't be mostly on the floor with Gasol.

JaM is gonna start and play at least 20mpg.

Then there's Anderson to slide to the 4 when Temple comes in.

Then if Parsons ever plays again he'll be a stretch 4, he ain't gonna be at the 3.

How many mins does that leave for JJJ at PF when Marc is on the floor?

Did I miss something?  When was that information released?

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4 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

thanks for proving my point the team was built in free agency...and yes it did start off with a HOF put we all no one player cant win a ring...hmm i wonder were all these hof's help come from...was it the almighty draft...no it was freeagency and trades...also cavs didnt draft lebron on that championship team...we was signed (freeagency) to that team...get it right

Duncan, Parker, Ginobili.  All drafted by the Spurs I think.

Jordan, Pippen, Grant.  Pippen was a swap of draft picks with Seattle, still draft.  They added Kukoc through the draft for the second run.

Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, John Salley

Hakeem Olajuwon, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell

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1 hour ago, Silverllama said:

When did it become easy to signed HOF players?

Golden State Warriors - Most of their players were drafted, after winning championships then they got Durant on free agency.
Cleveland Cavaliers - Lebron came back, because he had unfinished business.
San Antonio Spurs - Draft
Miami Heat - Dwayne Wade recruited Lebron and Bosh. This is the closest to your scenario.
Dallas Mavericks - HOF drafted, support players brought on free agency.
Los Angeles Lakers - Memphis trade plus draft.
Boston - Once in a lifetime trade sequence.

No, it is not easy to sign a HOF, if you don't have something extremely good establish first. The only team that has done what you are suggesting is the current Lakers team, and we have no idea if it will win anything. And they did it, because they are the Lakers. 100% a post NBA business move from Lebron James.

you are only mentioning teams that actually ended up winning a title im talking about championship caliber teams period..allstar/hof talent change team all most every season...like chip said earlier..teams brought in allstars/hofs(plural) to help the ONE they already had through trade/freeagency and why were teams able to do so because allstar/hof talent is always on the freeagency/trade market..just because they dont come to memphis doesnt mean it dont happen...what player is already in place really doesnt matter its more if said player has confidence the the org (lebron confidence in the lakers) can build a championship level team more than if an allstar/hof is on the roster..

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4 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Duncan, Parker, Ginobili.  All drafted by the Spurs I think.

Jordan, Pippen, Grant.  Pippen was a swap of draft picks with Seattle, still draft.  They added Kukoc through the draft for the second run.

Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, John Salley

Hakeem Olajuwon, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell

i never said it did happen

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12 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

i never said it did happen

The point that was being made was that it starts with the draft, and I have to agree.  Complimentary players can be added though trades and (to a lesser extent in our case) free agency, but you have to start with something.

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3 hours ago, Zappastache said:

 

Man wish my reddit thread discussion didn't get buried in whatever this argument is between Chip and PutARingOnIt....

Maybe I should pull a KBM and start my own thread ?

Do it man. This one is off the rails. 

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