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What about Graysen Allen from Duke

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53 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

Bane, Dillon,  Allen or Melton, none of them are what any if us should call starters,they're just the best WE have. At this current juncture Allen is playing really good, and each of those players can be useful in the right role

i agree but the reason we are discussing this is because we are in a rebuild and these are development years.    What FO should be doing is figuring out which of these guys are worthy of further development.

   Evidence that they are doing this is the platoon rotation that Taylor uses.  As painful as it is to watch; it does allow the org to gather data on the players and see which ones are worthy of investment.   

Its too early in Bane's career to assume he can't become a starting level wing.  Same with Melton.   All four of the guys have shown flashes of why they are worth developing further.  Its just a matter of the staff figuring out their pecking order or role going forward.    IMHO Grayson has shown he is a NBA rotation player and Dillon is an enigma that should be a role player.   Bane and Melton can be starters depending on the rest of the lineup.   

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2 hours ago, The J Crew said:

Grizz09, I think you have an alert, like with Shams or Woj on Twitter, to alert you anytime someone says something less than 100% positive about Grayson. Dude, we get it, you love Grayson. But you giving him credit for "shutting down" some of these guys is laughable, I guess we were watching different games. You have Grayson guarding and "shutting down" small forwards, shooting guards, point guards? Be serious. 

Even this year, with good team D which helps individual D ratings, his DRtg is 114, which is poor. Grayson has had a couple of nice offensive games. Ja is setting him up for some wide open shots, which Grayson is hitting. But he does little else. If we want to be better, we need a better player at the  starting 2 spot. 

I’m absolutely on a biased Allen island,  you can quote me on that.  He’s been trashed regularly even when playing well.  Jenkins has called him out positively for defense.  All we need from the starting SG spot is someone to make open shots, playmake some, be relatively mistake free, and defend well while not disrupting the big 3 starters rhythm/scoring in Ja/JJJ/JV.  I’m not saying he’s the longterm starting solution, but he’s playing that role pretty freaking well right now.

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I’m fine with bane and Allen handling the SG spot.  It’s more likely that the team needs an upgrade at SF unless Justise looks amazing when he plays.  Dillon has also been playing better at SF with bane and Allen starting at SG next to him.

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12 minutes ago, grizz09 said:

I’m absolutely on a biased Allen island,  you can quote me on that.  He’s been trashed regularly even when playing well.  Jenkins has called him out positively for defense.  All we need from the starting SG spot is someone to make open shots, playmake some, be relatively mistake free, and defend well while not disrupting the big 3 starters rhythm/scoring in Ja/JJJ/JV.  He’s doing that.

We know, lol. But thank for you honesty.

To me, like others have said, he's at best as average starting Shooting guard in this league. At best. We should aim much higher. 

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6 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

We know, lol. But thank for you honesty.

To me, like others have said, he's at best as average starting point guard in this league. At best. We should aim much higher. 

Point guard?  He can play some PG in a pinch but he’s a pretty typical SG.  At best he becomes some version of JJ redick with athleticism/defense or a smaller version of eric Gordon.  That’s a starting level player or a bench microwave/floor spacer.  Team should absolutely aim higher if they can get a Beal like talent in a trade, otherwise he and bane are more than fine for now.  Not every team will have a high level/near all-star player at every starting position.  3 of 5 starters should be that high level and the other 2 should compliment their styles of play.  That’s why dillon has been a problem as a starter.

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1 minute ago, grizz09 said:

Point guard?  He can play some PG in a pinch but he’s a pretty typical SG.  At best he becomes some version of JJ redick with athleticism/defense or a smaller version of eric Gordon.  That’s a starting level player or a bench microwave/floor spacer.  Team should absolutely aim higher if they can get a Beal like talent in a trade, otherwise he and bane are more than fine for now.

Oops, shooting guard, you know what I mean. Grayson can't play the point at all, which is why Quin Snyder quit playing him in Utah. 

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1 minute ago, The J Crew said:

Oops, shooting guard, you know what I mean. Grayson can't play the point at all, which is why Quin Snyder quit playing him in Utah. 

Got it, thumbs up.  I think he was terrible defensively in Utah which is more the reason he got limited minutes.  He was never going to be drafted by any nba team as a PG.

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1 minute ago, grizz09 said:

Got it, thumbs up.  I think he was terrible defensively in Utah which is more the reason he got limited minutes.  He was never going to be drafted by any nba team as a PG.

You're a good sport, 09. I hope Grayson proves us doubters wrong, averages 20 points per game, and shoots 40% from 3. 

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1 minute ago, The J Crew said:

You're a good sport, 09. I hope Grayson proves us doubters wrong, averages 20 points per game, and shoots 40% from 3. 

Lol, as biased as I am, I don’t think he’ll ever average 20 ppg.  I think he can eventually be a 15 ppg guy and the 40% is more than doable.  Good sport to you as well, it’s always good to have honest/reasonable discussion.

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24 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

i agree but the reason we are discussing this is because we are in a rebuild and these are development years.    What FO should be doing is figuring out which of these guys are worthy of further development.

   Evidence that they are doing this is the platoon rotation that Taylor uses.  As painful as it is to watch; it does allow the org to gather data on the players and see which ones are worthy of investment.   

Its too early in Bane's career to assume he can't become a starting level wing.  Same with Melton.   All four of the guys have shown flashes of why they are worth developing further.  Its just a matter of the staff figuring out their pecking order or role going forward.    IMHO Grayson has shown he is a NBA rotation player and Dillon is an enigma that should be a role player.   Bane and Melton can be starters depending on the rest of the lineup.   

Bane will be a good shooter for years to come,  no need to complicate that.  He will likely have issues due to his physical limitations and that's fine,  just because he's not a starter doesn't mean he isn't serviceable. The answer is simple on who to develop depending on what you're looking for.  If you're trying to develop a knockdown shooter, Bane is that,  defender,  Melton,  Grayson and Brooks are more likely more finished products. Seeing what you have isn't necessarily synonymous with what you need

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I don’t think any of them are peaked/finished products except for dillon.  Melton is just now getting his feet wet after Phoenix wasted him, bane is a rookie, and Allen hasn’t even played 100 nba games yet with probably a 3rd of those games in meaningless garbage minutes in Utah.

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39 minutes ago, grizz09 said:

I don’t think any of them are peaked/finished products except for dillon.  Melton is just now getting his feet wet after Phoenix wasted him, bane is a rookie, and Allen hasn’t even played 100 nba games yet with probably a 3rd of those games in meaningless garbage minutes in Utah.

I said Allen and Dillon are more likely closer to their peak,, not Bane or Melton. 

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2 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

I said Allen and Dillon are more likely closer to their peak,, not Bane or Melton. 

I know, I’m just stating my opinion on all of them too

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20 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

i agree but the reason we are discussing this is because we are in a rebuild and these are development years.    What FO should be doing is figuring out which of these guys are worthy of further development.

   Evidence that they are doing this is the platoon rotation that Taylor uses.  As painful as it is to watch; it does allow the org to gather data on the players and see which ones are worthy of investment.   

Its too early in Bane's career to assume he can't become a starting level wing.  Same with Melton.   All four of the guys have shown flashes of why they are worth developing further.  Its just a matter of the staff figuring out their pecking order or role going forward.    IMHO Grayson has shown he is a NBA rotation player and Dillon is an enigma that should be a role player.   Bane and Melton can be starters depending on the rest of the lineup.   

One way to look at the three players is by age. Allen is 25, Melton and Bane are 22. Their stats are very similar but clearly Allen has the toughest road to hoe to show improvement simply because he is older. It's not impossible for him to become a more complete player but at his age it is less likely than Melton or Bane who are three years younger. 

So far none of the three have shown me the type of ability to warrant starting on any team but I am sure all can perform adequately if thrust into the role. Starting is for egos. Finishing is for players and I don't want  to rely on any of the three currently to finish a game. Bane has shown me the most promise in that role but only because he's a rookie. Allen and Melton have been playing for three seasons. Their larger body of work scares me away from both of them at the end of a tight game.  

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All 3 have shown enough to prove that they can be relied upon to start and/or end games.  I’ve been most impressed with how confident a shooter bane has been as a rookie; credit Jenkins for trusting his players.  The 3 seasons is misleading for Allen and Melton as they have been down significant time with injuries or covid related issues.  In reality, they’ve both only played about a season to a season and a half of meaningful games/minutes.  Melton only has played in 122 nba games and allen 95.  They have shown a lot of improvement in that time, and still have room to grow at both of their ages.  Next season will be the one to truly judge who they are becoming as players.  The best thing about all of them is that they’re on great contracts.

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On 2/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, chipc3 said:

One way to look at the three players is by age. Allen is 25, Melton and Bane are 22. Their stats are very similar but clearly Allen has the toughest road to hoe to show improvement simply because he is older. It's not impossible for him to become a more complete player but at his age it is less likely than Melton or Bane who are three years younger. 

So far none of the three have shown me the type of ability to warrant starting on any team but I am sure all can perform adequately if thrust into the role. Starting is for egos. Finishing is for players and I don't want  to rely on any of the three currently to finish a game. Bane has shown me the most promise in that role but only because he's a rookie. Allen and Melton have been playing for three seasons. Their larger body of work scares me away from both of them at the end of a tight game.  

I agree with your take. 

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And people still want this dude starting? In the last 2 games, he has a total of 7 points, 7 rebounds, 0-7 from 3 and is 3-14 from the field. This is the guy everyone wants to be our starting SG? An undersized, poor defender who is 1 dimensional. Once again, just because he may go off once every few games doesn't mean he should start. He's a classic bench player.

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13 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

And people still want this dude starting? In the last 2 games, he has a total of 7 points, 7 rebounds, 0-7 from 3 and is 3-14 from the field. This is the guy everyone wants to be our starting SG? An undersized, poor defender who is 1 dimensional. Once again, just because he may go off once every few games doesn't mean he should start. He's a classic bench player.

 Most are not clamoring or believe Grayson is the starting SG solution not sure why you put everyone here.          Most everyone does understand that we need a shooter in the starting lineup.   Personally i want Bane to be the starting SG for this CURRENT roster.  

so who is your solution for starting spot with CURRENT roster? 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 Most are not clamoring or believe Grayson is the starting SG solution not sure why you put everyone here.          Most everyone does understand that we need a shooter in the starting lineup.   Personally i want Bane to be the starting SG for this CURRENT roster.  

so who is your solution for starting spot with CURRENT roster? 

There is NO solution with this current roster. I have said this all along. We don't have the talent.  Ja's defense is horrendous. Having another bad defender alongside him is a bad idea. Our best defender is Melton and he's undersized as well and has a very limited game.

If we want to develop talent, sure start Bane or even Melton since he is a good defender.

If you want to win as many games as you can (which won't be much), then start your vet guys. BC should not be starting. He's a good energy guy but not a starter. Slide Kyle down to the 4 where he is probably more productive these days, start Winslow (I don't really care anymore) and have DIllon at the 2.Take Tillman out of the rotation and play Gorgui more but I get the feeling they are not really trying to win games tbh.

Allen is an end of the bench guy who can get hot here and there, much like Troy Daniels.

 

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19 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

There is NO solution with this current roster. I have said this all along. We don't have the talent.  Ja's defense is horrendous. Having another bad defender alongside him is a bad idea. Our best defender is Melton and he's undersized as well and has a very limited game.

If we want to develop talent, sure start Bane or even Melton since he is a good defender.

If you want to win as many games as you can (which won't be much), then start your vet guys. BC should not be starting. He's a good energy guy but not a starter. Slide Kyle down to the 4 where he is probably more productive these days, start Winslow (I don't really care anymore) and have DIllon at the 2.Take Tillman out of the rotation and play Gorgui more but I get the feeling they are not really trying to win games tbh.

Allen is an end of the bench guy who can get hot here and there, much like Troy Daniels.

 

Yes the roster isn't complete yet.  But we do need certain roles filled in starting lineup and when everyone was healthy you could see the logic in TJ starting lineup.   As injuries happened he started going more with a hodge podge of guys that dont quite fit.   

I believe when everyone is healthy this is going to be SL.

Ja/Dillon/Justise/Jaren/Jonas

That gives you Playmaker/Scorer/Defender/Shooter/Rebounder

I would swap out Dillon for Bane and continue the internal development path.   Bane is already being treated by defenses as a lethal shooter.  So that will give lineup the spacing it needs.  Bane has also shown some defensive upside 

Agree with you on sliding Kyle back to the 4 while Jaren is out.   I also think BC should just be an energy guy off the bench and pattern himself after Montrezl.   IMHO Tillman makes more sense as future starter over him( i am not saying Tillman needs to start now) because BC cannot guard True Centers at all nor does he set picks .   Jonas and Tillman are the only two that do. 

I also don't believe they are trying to win as many games as they can.  Konchar and McDermott PT should be the clear sign of that.   They are still in development mode. 

I get the logic of playing Tillman over Dieng.   Its pretty clear he is a trade candidate so no reason to jeopardize his health to squeeze out a win or two.  

My only complaint about Taylor is not his playing of 11 dudes - its his choices of combinations of those 11 dudes.    Like you said BC isn't a starter and he especially isn't good playing alongside Jonas and Kyle.   Bane needs more minutes with Ja.   Go ahead and start Justise because he was brought in to help Ja.   So he needs majority of his minutes alongside Ja to develop chemistry.  

But somebody has to start whether you believe there is a solution or not..   Taylor cannot keep the SG slot open just because we don't have an AllStar available to fill it.   YOu play the hand you are dealt. 

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On 2/20/2021 at 11:49 AM, GrizzTigerFan said:

I agree with your take. 

That's never a good sign...

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