Memphis Maverick

2019 NBA DRAFT

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1 minute ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

 

im skraight too...

 

I saw him up close when the Tigers gave him the business in the Forum.

 

while I'm out here - the whole thabeet and his presence has pretty much soured me on the tall skinny not super coordinated big man thing...

That was Tacko Fall.  Fall is even longer and taller (but slower) than Bol Bol.  No range, all Tacko does is dunk.  

Actually hard to believe that we gameplanned better against Mr. Fall than Duke did.

Back to Bol: I don't think that any center is gonna look like a HOFer in every situation.  Though Bol can fit in with Jaren or Jonas or Bruno.  Maybe you can even play all FOUR of those guys at one time.

 

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3 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

That was Tacko Fall.  Fall is even longer and taller (but slower) than Bol Bol.  No range, all Tacko does is dunk.  

Actually hard to believe that we gameplanned better against Mr. Fall than Duke did.

Back to Bol: I don't think that any center is gonna look like a HOFer in every situation.  Though Bol can fit in with Jaren or Jonas or Bruno.  Maybe you can even play all FOUR of those guys at one time.

  

you are right.

thanks.

the thabeet part still stands however.

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Just now, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

you are right.

thanks.

the thabeet part still stands however.

Maybe I don't want us getting the 2nd Pick this year.  There's usually not a no-brainer awesome guy at 2 (Durant/Mourning) so teams picking here can really mess up.

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6 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You obviously aren't old enough to remember Shawn Bradley if you think that he can't shoot. Please somebody that's old enough explain to him who Shawn Bradley was coming out of college.

Every time KBM watches Space Jam, we have to hear about Shawn Bradley...

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6 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You obviously aren't old enough to remember Shawn Bradley if you think that he can't shoot. Please somebody that's old enough explain to him who Shawn Bradley was coming out of college.

I'm plenty old enough.  Shawn Bradley was a really tall player, but not much of a shooter.;)

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Not much of an athlete also. He was skilled but easily pushed off the block and while he blocked a ton of shots he wasn’t a feared defender.

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2 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Alexander-Walker, know that name, love that name. The guy has the potential to be a star, and he is a far better prospect than Culver, RJ and Cam Reddish in my opinion. He is the best sleeper pick in this draft.

Based off what exactly......he does have that "this guy is overlooked so he is probably going to be good feel to him" but at the same time he didn't make any noise in the tournament ( I think he may have been hurt) and his skillset is very similar to Coby's and I'd much rather take him 

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2 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

we have one of those guys and you want to trade him for a throw-away first round pick. We have 2 actually: avery bradley is the other. 

you are also valuing athletic ability over shooting if you want him over Alex-Walker who has better numbers across the board.

Alex-walker is taller and longer than coby white as well. The only advantage white has over walker is his athletic "stromile" ability. 

You have a bad habit of dogging players you don't introduce to the board....Conley doesn't want to be here anymore and Bradley is often injured and doesn't fit in a rebuilding plus they may have issues resigning him. 

Nickiel Alexander-Walker

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nickeil-alexander-walker

Coby White

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/coby-white

Now I know these write ups don't hold much stock but you are going to bat for a guy with role player potential vs a guy with star potential. Like @GrizzTigerFan said White went from second best freshman in NC recruiting class to best player on the team and shot up the draft boards. I think he has the work ethic to be a star 

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2 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

we have one of those guys and you want to trade him for a throw-away first round pick. We have 2 actually: avery bradley is the other. 

you are also valuing athletic ability over shooting if you want him over Alex-Walker who has better numbers across the board.

Alex-walker is taller and longer than coby white as well. The only advantage white has over walker is his athletic "stromile" ability. 

I was about to respond then i read this..

8 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

You have a bad habit of dogging players you don't introduce to the board....Conley doesn't want to be here anymore and Bradley is often injured and doesn't fit in a rebuilding plus they may have issues resigning him. 

Nickiel Alexander-Walker

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nickeil-alexander-walker

Coby White

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/coby-white

Now I know these write ups don't hold much stock but you are going to bat for a guy with role player potential vs a guy with star potential. Like @GrizzTigerFan said White went from second best freshman in NC recruiting class to best player on the team and shot up the draft bowrds. I think he has the work ethic to be a star 

So yea - what he said! 

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

You have a bad habit of dogging players you don't introduce to the board....Conley doesn't want to be here anymore and Bradley is often injured and doesn't fit in a rebuilding plus they may have issues resigning him. 

Nickiel Alexander-Walker

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nickeil-alexander-walker

Coby White

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/coby-white

Now I know these write ups don't hold much stock but you are going to bat for a guy with role player potential vs a guy with star potential. Like @GrizzTigerFan said White went from second best freshman in NC recruiting class to best player on the team and shot up the draft boards. I think he has the work ethic to be a star 

I think Darius Garland is better than both of them.Especially if we talk about potential.

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

You have a bad habit of dogging players you don't introduce to the board....Conley doesn't want to be here anymore and Bradley is often injured and doesn't fit in a rebuilding plus they may have issues resigning him. 

Nickiel Alexander-Walker

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/nickeil-alexander-walker

Coby White

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/coby-white

Now I know these write ups don't hold much stock but you are going to bat for a guy with role player potential vs a guy with star potential. Like @GrizzTigerFan said White went from second best freshman in NC recruiting class to best player on the team and shot up the draft boards. I think he has the work ethic to be a star 

Did you read there respective weaknesses? Alex-Walker's was all based on getting stronger and lack of first step, which isn't too concerning.

Coby's has a whole section based on shooting (and release point) and a guy who might struggle to finish once he gets to the nba. Again, the guy that wrote up Coby's projection (at least the part where they thought he could be a star) was basing a lot of that on his athletic ability and quick first step.

Coby doesn't shoot as good as Alex-Walker, doesn't have the quick release that walker has, isn't ambidextrous like Walker is, doesn't have Alex-Walker's high BBIQ. I would rather bank on a guy with an electric shot than a guy that has an electric first step.

You know who else had an electric first step?   Jonny Flynn.

In fact if you read Jonny Flynn's write-up in that same website and you read Steph Curry's write up, it mirrors this one with Alex-Walker and Coby White.

The point is Coby can't shoot at an elite enough level that makes his first step matter. He is undersized and he will probably get even worse at the nba level. Walker has the size advantage and has a quick release snipping shot that he'll be able to get off at will, and he moves so well without the basketball that teams are going to have a hard time keeping up with him on the floor, and has the basketball smarts too boot.

These are just the facts. You can choose to ignore them if you like.

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Just now, Kevin B Moses said:

Did you read there respective weaknesses? Alex-Walker's was all based on getting stronger and lack of first step, which isn't too concerning.

Coby's has a whole section based on shooting (and release point) and a guy who might struggle to finish once he gets to the nba. Again, the guy that wrote up Coby's projection (at least the part where they thought he could be a star) was basing a lot of that on his athletic ability and quick first step.

Coby doesn't shoot as good as Alex-Walker, doesn't have the quick release that walker has, isn't ambidextrous like Walker is. I would rather bank on a guy with an electric shot than a guy that has an electric first step.

You know who else had an electric first step?   Jonny Flynn.

In fact if you read Jonny Flynn's write-up in that same website and you read Steph Curry's write up, it mirrors this one with Alex-Walker and Coby White.

The point is Coby can't shoot at an elite enough level that makes his first step matter. He is undersized and he will probably get even worse at the nba level. Walker has the size advantage and has a quick release snipping shot that he'll be able to get off at will, and he moves so well without the basketball that teams are going to have a hard time keeping up with him on the floor.

These are just the facts. 

I haven't watched Alexander-Walker, so not going to take a stance on him either way, but I do have a question: if he is as promising as you say he is, why did he struggle in the last two games of the tournament? And why did he average 30% FG, 20% 3PT and 2 TOs against Duke (a team with NBA-level defenders in Reddish and Barrett)? In the last game against UVa (also against a team with an NBA defender in Hunter), he also shot 28.6% FG and 0% 3PT. 

Open to an explanation on this since I haven't watched his games or delved into his highlights, but if other guys are getting flak for their lackluster performance in the tournament, seems like this is something we should keep in mind for him too.

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3 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

I haven't watched Alexander-Walker, so not going to take a stance on him either way, but I do have a question: if he is as promising as you say he is, why did he struggle in the last two games of the tournament? And why did he average 30% FG, 20% 3PT and 2 TOs against Duke (a team with NBA-level defenders in Reddish and Barrett)? In the last game against UVa (also against a team with an NBA defender in Hunter), he also shot 28.6% FG and 0% 3PT. 

Open to an explanation on this since I haven't watched his games or delved into his highlights, but if other guys are getting flak for their lackluster performance in the tournament, seems like this is something we should keep in mind for him too.

Jaren struggled in the tournament too. Every year you have guys that play like stars in the tournament and they become duds in the nba. You have to look at the skillsets and project what they will be at the next level. 

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9 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

 

im skraight too...

 

I saw him up close when the Tigers gave him the business in the Forum.

 

while I'm out here - the whole thabeet and his presence has pretty much soured me on the tall skinny not super coordinated big man thing...

Me too,  he may be able to score but I'd never pick him.  I'd take tacko over him 27 times a day.  

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7 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Did you read there respective weaknesses? Alex-Walker's was all based on getting stronger and lack of first step, which isn't too concerning.

Coby's has a whole section based on shooting (and release point) and a guy who might struggle to finish once he gets to the nba. Again, the guy that wrote up Coby's projection (at least the part where they thought he could be a star) was basing a lot of that on his athletic ability and quick first step.

Coby doesn't shoot as good as Alex-Walker, doesn't have the quick release that walker has, isn't ambidextrous like Walker is, doesn't have Alex-Walker's high BBIQ. I would rather bank on a guy with an electric shot than a guy that has an electric first step.

You know who else had an electric first step?   Jonny Flynn.

In fact if you read Jonny Flynn's write-up in that same website and you read Steph Curry's write up, it mirrors this one with Alex-Walker and Coby White.

The point is Coby can't shoot at an elite enough level that makes his first step matter. He is undersized and he will probably get even worse at the nba level. Walker has the size advantage and has a quick release snipping shot that he'll be able to get off at will, and he moves so well without the basketball that teams are going to have a hard time keeping up with him on the floor, and has the basketball smarts too boot.

These are just the facts. You can choose to ignore them if you like.

Here you go overselling your guy to make the competition look bad. They say Coby can't shoot over longer defender yet he did it all through college, say he's not ambidextrous but in his strengths they say he can finish with either hand comfortably, you say he's undersized but he's 6'5 185 he's a skinny 19 year old. Your guy is 20lbs bigger with a second year of college weight training, Coby can't shoot elite enough so here goes the if he's not a superstar rookie he's not good enough approach 😑.....your guy's second sentence weakness "Doesn't exhibit alpha dog mentality" just what we need another guy who doesn't have it in him to take over when need be. Nothin suggest Nickeil is elite at anything and his multiple poor performances throughout the season suggest he's a good role player that can get hot from time to time. Other posters have already exposed him for shrinking up in big games.... I'll play your game though you know who was similar to his size with a good wingspan and had a cerebral approach to the game? Wade Baldwin and we saw how that worked out....I was ok with let's see how good he is in a work out despite already knowing about his poor performances against tougher competition. However now he's just some scrub you prefer to talk about instead of the main guys everyone else is talking about Nickeil Alexander-Walker is not better than Coby White so stop pretending he is.

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8 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Did you read there respective weaknesses? Alex-Walker's was all based on getting stronger and lack of first step, which isn't too concerning.

Coby's has a whole section based on shooting (and release point) and a guy who might struggle to finish once he gets to the nba. Again, the guy that wrote up Coby's projection (at least the part where they thought he could be a star) was basing a lot of that on his athletic ability and quick first step.

Coby doesn't shoot as good as Alex-Walker, doesn't have the quick release that walker has, isn't ambidextrous like Walker is, doesn't have Alex-Walker's high BBIQ. I would rather bank on a guy with an electric shot than a guy that has an electric first step.

You know who else had an electric first step?   Jonny Flynn.

In fact if you read Jonny Flynn's write-up in that same website and you read Steph Curry's write up, it mirrors this one with Alex-Walker and Coby White.

The point is Coby can't shoot at an elite enough level that makes his first step matter. He is undersized and he will probably get even worse at the nba level. Walker has the size advantage and has a quick release snipping shot that he'll be able to get off at will, and he moves so well without the basketball that teams are going to have a hard time keeping up with him on the floor, and has the basketball smarts too boot.

These are just the facts. You can choose to ignore them if you like.

Actually these are just different people's opinions. 

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15 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

Well you don't know if you drafted the best talent until they get on the court I'm talking specifically about the Grizz they have always said they draft who they think is the best player on their board and it hasn't been working for the most part. So like I said they need to have scoring potential at the top of their list and if the so called best player on the board doesn't bring that they don't need to draft him.....I'm not a tradional person in anyway so all the talking heads that say you should always draft the BPA dont inspire me to believe that's the best strategy.... I'd rather go with my own judgement than go along with the consensus group think....

 

14 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yep we need a perimeter scorer badly.  Especially with Conley gone.   Jaren's development will stifle if we don't have someone on the perimeter that can create.    

I am with @Ndq0327 that if we are picking 8th then the "best player available" is in the eye of the beholder.   What good is it drafting Brandon Clarke if you envision Jaren and Jonas being the permenant starting Bigs.   It's best to get a talented player that actually fits on the roster too.    Development is a much bigger factor in player success than simply what number he was picked at.     Players that have a easy path to a role on drafted teams are generally much more successful.  

I also want a guy that has the drive, motor and work ethic to improve.    Coby White is my guy because he basically shot up the charts during the year due o his drive.  Heck dude was number one scorer in the north carolina out of high school and still wasn't front page news till end of season.     He has super quick and can score off the bounce with size to play the 2?     He got buckets in high school , he got buckets in college,  he should be able to get buckets in NBA.     Watching these playoffs and all these glorified combo guards are killing it - DiAngelo,  Dame, CJ,  Jamal,  Donovan, and even Steph.   Gotta have one of those types to compete, period.  

For the draft for need crowd: Portland openly admitted they had Michael Jordan rated higher than Sam Bowie. But they just drafted Drexler the year before that. So they took Bowie. Because in the early 80s, big men were the most important players in the game. Even if Bowie never got hurt, he would not compare to Jordan. The Grizzlies drafted Thabeet because Heisley thought we needed a defensive center, despite knowing other prospects were better prospects. Same draft, Grizzlies never considered Harden because of OJ Mayo.

Drafting for need is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't tell me one time where a team took the better player and that turned into a disaster. I'm sure if I did research I could come up with a 100 other times need was a disaster. You can say you don't do groupthink and that you are an independent thinker. Kyrie is saying that same crap with his flat earth theory. How's that working for him?

14 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

we have one of those guys and you want to trade him for a throw-away first round pick. We have 2 actually: avery bradley is the other. 

you are also valuing athletic ability over shooting if you want him over Alex-Walker who has better numbers across the board.

Alex-walker is taller and longer than coby white as well. The only advantage white has over walker is his athletic "stromile" ability. 

I haven't seen enough of Alexander-Walker to say yay or nay to him. But the better numbers across the board is a lie. He averaged 0.1 more points per game in 5.9 more minutes per game. He averaged less assists and more turnovers. He did have better shooting numbers, except at the FT line. But if you go back to Alexander-Walker's freshman season. Coby White blows him out of the water.

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14 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

you are right.

thanks.

the thabeet part still stands however.

Other than tall and skinny, Bol doesn't compare to Thabeet. Bol is a perimeter oriented big, who loves shooting 3's. And he shoots them well.

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4 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

 

For the draft for need crowd: Portland openly admitted they had Michael Jordan rated higher than Sam Bowie. But they just drafted Drexler the year before that. So they took Bowie. Because in the early 80s, big men were the most important players in the game. Even if Bowie never got hurt, he would not compare to Jordan. The Grizzlies drafted Thabeet because Heisley thought we needed a defensive center, despite knowing other prospects were better prospects. Same draft, Grizzlies never considered Harden because of OJ Mayo.

Drafting for need is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't tell me one time where a team took the better player and that turned into a disaster. I'm sure if I did research I could come up with a 100 other times need was a disaster. You can say you don't do groupthink and that you are an independent thinker. Kyrie is saying that same crap with his flat earth theory. How's that working for him?

I haven't seen enough of Alexander-Walker to say yay or nay to him. But the better numbers across the board is a lie. He averaged 0.1 more points per game in 5.9 more minutes per game. He averaged less assists and more turnovers. He did have better shooting numbers, except at the FT line. But if you go back to Alexander-Walker's freshman season. Coby White blows him out of the water.

It's not draft for need it's draft for what makes sense this team has always had an issue with creating offense so consistently ignoring that year after year in the draft cause player A is the best on the board is absurd....I'm not saying draft a wing cause we need a wing if the guy is 6"11 245lb and can create ate his own offense then I'm on board with drafting him. But I'm not on board with drafting let's say Rui (for positional comparison purposes) if he needs someone else to get him good looks cause that's just redundant with what we already have and he plays the same position as Jaren who is rated higher than Rui. So if Rui is the BPA but  Coby or Nickeil or Tyler Hero is second BPA I'd rather them take one of the wings cause his skill set fills a glaring need and we have room for him to develop faster than a guy thats rated higher but plays the same position as someone the team already wants to develop

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8 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

 

For the draft for need crowd: Portland openly admitted they had Michael Jordan rated higher than Sam Bowie. But they just drafted Drexler the year before that. So they took Bowie. Because in the early 80s, big men were the most important players in the game. Even if Bowie never got hurt, he would not compare to Jordan. The Grizzlies drafted Thabeet because Heisley thought we needed a defensive center, despite knowing other prospects were better prospects. Same draft, Grizzlies never considered Harden because of OJ Mayo.

Drafting for need is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't tell me one time where a team took the better player and that turned into a disaster. I'm sure if I did research I could come up with a 100 other times need was a disaster. You can say you don't do groupthink and that you are an independent thinker. Kyrie is saying that same crap with his flat earth theory. How's that working for him?

I haven't seen enough of Alexander-Walker to say yay or nay to him. But the better numbers across the board is a lie. He averaged 0.1 more points per game in 5.9 more minutes per game. He averaged less assists and more turnovers. He did have better shooting numbers, except at the FT line. But if you go back to Alexander-Walker's freshman season. Coby White blows him out of the water.

Actually Alexander-Walker's freshman year, he had better shooting percentages as well.

Coby, despite playing 5.9 minutes less a game, shoots more than 1 shoot a game more that Walker does. And he is way more inefficient at it, so Walker still scores .1 point more a game than White does.

The assist numbers are the same basically: by .1 of a point. 

Walker has a significant advantage in rebounding and steals. 

Walker has been praised for his basketball IQ and work ethic. Coby has been criticized for forcing shots and passing on teammates. 

Like I said, Coby White is athletic and that's his only real advantage over Walker, but walker beats him in just about everything else, and surely in everything that actually matters.  

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3 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Actually Alexander-Walker's freshman year, he had better shooting percentages as well.

Coby, despite playing 5.9 minutes less a game, shoots more than 1 shoot a game more that Walker does. And he is way more inefficient at it, so Walker still scores .1 point more a game than White does.

The assist numbers are the same basically: by .1 of a point. 

Walker has a significant advantage in rebounding and steals. 

Walker has been praised for his basketball IQ and work ethic. Coby has been criticized for forcing shots and passing on teammates. 

Like I said, Coby White is athletic and that's his only real advantage over Walker, but walker beats him in just about everything else, and surely in everything that actually matters.  

Again, I'm not criticizing Alexander-Walker. I have not watched him. I am criticizing your argument that he is better across the board. Now you've changed it to just about everything and everything that actually matters. Except that don't assists and turnovers matter????? Especially if we are talking about potential playmaking guards??????

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27 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

 

For the draft for need crowd: Portland openly admitted they had Michael Jordan rated higher than Sam Bowie. But they just drafted Drexler the year before that. So they took Bowie. Because in the early 80s, big men were the most important players in the game. Even if Bowie never got hurt, he would not compare to Jordan. The Grizzlies drafted Thabeet because Heisley thought we needed a defensive center, despite knowing other prospects were better prospects. Same draft, Grizzlies never considered Harden because of OJ Mayo.

Drafting for need is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't tell me one time where a team took the better player and that turned into a disaster. I'm sure if I did research I could come up with a 100 other times need was a disaster. You can say you don't do groupthink and that you are an independent thinker. Kyrie is saying that same crap with his flat earth theory. How's that working for him?

I couldn't agree more. Teams use the draft to acquire the best talent. They use free agency and trades to fill holes in the lineups. 

I haven't seen enough of Alexander-Walker to say yay or nay to him. But the better numbers across the board is a lie. He averaged 0.1 more points per game in 5.9 more minutes per game. He averaged less assists and more turnovers. He did have better shooting numbers, except at the FT line. But if you go back to Alexander-Walker's freshman season. Coby White blows him out of the water.

The draft is a like a blackjack game. You can use all the stats you want but in the end you have to be lucky to be successful. Using stats from college to predict how that player will perform after being paid millions of dollars and maturing is a tough job.  

 

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13 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Again, I'm not criticizing Alexander-Walker. I have not watched him. I am criticizing your argument that he is better across the board. Now you've changed it to just about everything and everything that actually matters. Except that don't assists and turnovers matter????? Especially if we are talking about potential playmaking guards??????

Well if .1 point and the turnover category makes that much of a difference then yeah it's not across the board. There are a couple of different things that Coby has done better this year. I retract the statement I said about cross the board. Happy?

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