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TT_Grizz

It's Time To Talk About Marc Gasol

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14 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

They didn't fire him for roster decisions.  They fired him because he antagonized the best players on the roster.  If Greg Popovich had antagonized Robinson, Duncan, Parker, or Ginobili SAS would have fired him too.  Every franchise would do the same.

It would be pretty hard to believe SA would've fired Pops, it would have had to be the owner because Pop picked the GM. You do know he was the previous GM and decided he wanted to be the coach.

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At this point I'm convinced Wallace is just a front for whoever is actually pulling the levers in the FO. The fact that he keeps saying with a straight face that we're competing for the playoffs (are we really going to go on a .650 spree or better until the end of the regular season?) shows me that he's just parroting a company line.

In that sense, he's been doing a great job for years and I don't expect him to be fired.

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On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:50 AM, BigHunkALove said:

 

Marc talking about Zach after the game:

"So many thing go through your head, so many emotions," Gasol said. "Truly a brother. We made each other better when we were playing together, we made each other better in practice when we battled each other. I miss him every day."

Thanks Fizdale

Utterly senseless to lay the blame at Fizdale's feet. Wallace and company brought him on board so that he could implement HIS style. The signing of Parsons was evidence of where the team wanted to go. You cannot blame Fizdale for trying to implement things his way when the team HIRED him in order to do JUST that. It's incomprehensible that this is even being discussed.

Then, the team had a full year to evaluate Fizdale's approach and dove head first by not re-signing TA and Zbo. THAT is on the organization. They made the decision, not Fizdale.

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He was the 1 who sat the teams' main player out in the 4th Q and they LOST, it might have been different if they had won. You think Fiz asked Wallace about sitting Gasol out? You think Wallace would have hired him in the 1st place if he had said, I may bench Gasol sometimes?

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Fizz is a living legend. Fizz can do no wrong. It’s solely Wallace and Gasol’s fault. LOL

The Fizz love is crazy. Dude had a mediocre record and we really didn’t have an offensive scheme this season when he was here. It was glorified streetball and our talent ain’t good enough to beat organized teams.

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1 hour ago, grizz1016 said:

Fizz is a living legend. Fizz can do no wrong. It’s solely Wallace and Gasol’s fault. LOL

The Fizz love is crazy. Dude had a mediocre record and we really didn’t have an offensive scheme this season when he was here. It was glorified streetball and our talent ain’t good enough to beat organized teams.

Most aren't making Fiz out to be a God. Quite simply trying to illustrate the point that Fizdale was not the issue with the Grizzlies. Wallace put a lousy roster together, and Fizdale actually held it together before Conley went down. 5-1 to start, 7-5 prior to the injury, and then of course the wheels fell off when he lost his best player and his 2nd best player refused to step up.

The Grizzlies were bad in the several games that led to his firing, and the Grizzlies are bad now. Cannot blame Fizdale for the lack of talent Wallace assembled on this roster.

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Just now, GF#1 said:

Most aren't making Fiz out to be a God. Quite simply trying to illustrate the point that Fizdale was not the issue with the Grizzlies. Wallace put a lousy roster together, and Fizdale actually held it together before Conley went down. 5-1 to start, 7-5 prior to the injury, and then of course the wheels fell off when he lost his best player and his 2nd best player refused to step up.

The Grizzlies were bad in the several games that led to his firing, and the Grizzlies are bad now. Cannot blame Fizdale for the lack of talent Wallace assembled on this roster.

Wallace is at fault

But so is Fizz. Fizz wanted Mclemore, wanted Parsons and Wallace agreed with him. Both needed to be fired IMO

Fizz wanted to move away from ZBo and TA and in the process sacrificed veteran leadership and frankly let go of better talent. Wallace went along with what Fizz wanted but Fizz has a lot of blame for the current roster. More than the roster, I didn’t see any offensive scheme this season when he was here. It was streetball and it was gonna bite us sooner than later.

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23 minutes ago, grizz1016 said:

Wallace is at fault

But so is Fizz. Fizz wanted Mclemore, wanted Parsons and Wallace agreed with him. Both needed to be fired IMO

Fizz wanted to move away from ZBo and TA and in the process sacrificed veteran leadership and frankly let go of better talent. Wallace went along with what Fizz wanted but Fizz has a lot of blame for the current roster. More than the roster, I didn’t see any offensive scheme this season when he was here. It was streetball and it was gonna bite us sooner than later.

And Ivaroni wanted Casey Jacobsen, and Hollins wanted Keyon Dooling and Joerger wanted Ryan Hollins.   No coach is infallible and that is usually why coaches don't get final say so on rosters.   It is on the GM to make the right decision.  

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1 hour ago, GF#1 said:

Most aren't making Fiz out to be a God. Quite simply trying to illustrate the point that Fizdale was not the issue with the Grizzlies. Wallace put a lousy roster together, and Fizdale actually held it together before Conley went down. 5-1 to start, 7-5 prior to the injury, and then of course the wheels fell off when he lost his best player and his 2nd best player refused to step up.

The Grizzlies were bad in the several games that led to his firing, and the Grizzlies are bad now. Cannot blame Fizdale for the lack of talent Wallace assembled on this roster.

A play here and there and the Grizz could have been a 500 team now. I can see 5-6 games they could/should of won but the didn't.

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56 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

And Ivaroni wanted Casey Jacobsen, and Hollins wanted Keyon Dooling and Joerger wanted Ryan Hollins.   No coach is infallible and that is usually why coaches don't get final say so on rosters.   It is on the GM to make the right decision.  

The GM made the wrong decision

The coach advocated for scrubs. The coach did not have a system in place.

Both deserve to be fired. One is gone, hopefully the other one is gone after this season.

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3 hours ago, GF#1 said:

Most aren't making Fiz out to be a God. Quite simply trying to illustrate the point that Fizdale was not the issue with the Grizzlies. Wallace put a lousy roster together, and Fizdale actually held it together before Conley went down. 5-1 to start, 7-5 prior to the injury, and then of course the wheels fell off when he lost his best player and his 2nd best player refused to step up.

The Grizzlies were bad in the several games that led to his firing, and the Grizzlies are bad now. Cannot blame Fizdale for the lack of talent Wallace assembled on this roster.

Refused?!!  Why is it refused?  Why didn't we demand Chalmers or Harrison to put up 18ppg?  It would make just about as much sense.  So you're saying that since Zach's gone, he needs to step up his rebounding and inside scoring, and since TA is gone he needs to step up his defense too, and with Mike injured he needs to get the team involved by distributing the ball and driving to the hoop and by being a perimeter threat, oh, and since Vince is gone he needs to fill his shoes in leading all these young undrafted and second-round draft picks he is surrounded with.  No wonder you're angry, after Fizzdale got fired he didn't step up his coaching either!

What has happened is we've lost four major pieces, some that we had for the last eight seasons, and you somehow want a very good role player to "step up" and shoulder all that burden and carry us to victory.  It seems to me that you are asking something very unreasonable.

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

And Ivaroni wanted Casey Jacobsen, and Hollins wanted Keyon Dooling and Joerger wanted Ryan Hollins.   No coach is infallible and that is usually why coaches don't get final say so on rosters.   It is on the GM to make the right decision.  

That's a new one.  You'll have to provide a link before I'll believe that.  Hollins wanted some veteran PG help off the bench because we desperately needed it.  We had Conley and Bayless and no one else.  Since no one else was available mid-season, that's who we got.  Don't start playing it like Hollins was eager for the FO to sign him.

Not sure why you're so butt-hurt over Ryan Hollins.  We needed a center.  He was available.  Crap, we gave every other basketball player in the country an NBA tryout that season.  Having Ryan Hollins on the roster didn't hurt anything that season.

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49 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Refused?!!  Why is it refused?  Why didn't we demand Chalmers or Harrison to put up 18ppg?  It would make just about as much sense.  So you're saying that since Zach's gone, he needs to step up his rebounding and inside scoring, and since TA is gone he needs to step up his defense too, and with Mike injured he needs to get the team involved by distributing the ball and driving to the hoop and by being a perimeter threat, oh, and since Vince is gone he needs to fill his shoes in leading all these young undrafted and second-round draft picks he is surrounded with.  No wonder you're angry, after Fizzdale got fired he didn't step up his coaching either!

What has happened is we've lost four major pieces, some that we had for the last eight seasons, and you somehow want a very good role player to "step up" and shoulder all that burden and carry us to victory.  It seems to me that you are asking something very unreasonable.

This reframing of Gasol's position in this franchise by fans has got to stop.    When has Gasol ever been labeled as simply a "role player" during his tenure and multiple big paydays?     Qpon was a role player;  Bayless was a role player;  Beno was a role player;  Kosta was a role player....   You don't put up murals, pay Max money, call him the franchise cornerstone, tout his AllStar appearances and put him on Mount Grizzmore  if he is simply just a "role player".   Grizz called MARC, Mike and Parsons our version of the Big3.     Big3 label doesn't get applied to "role players".      C'mon man be real.    Only dude that had that argument is Tony and he was never actually treated like a role player either.  

Franchise cornerstones, AllStar players and Max money dudes ROUTINELY step up their production when injury hits there teams.   If you wanna argue he isn't capable of doing that consistently, sure i'll hear that.   But to argue that is not what he is SUPPOSED to do because he is just another role player (like he is James Ennis) is asinine.     Tyreke was signed to be a "role player" but that dude has stepped up consistently.   Parsons was signed to be a new cornerstone and he has failed miserably.   Big money guys don't get to fade into the background.  That ain't how it works in any sport. 

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5 hours ago, GF#1 said:

Most aren't making Fiz out to be a God. Quite simply trying to illustrate the point that Fizdale was not the issue with the Grizzlies. Wallace put a lousy roster together, and Fizdale actually held it together before Conley went down. 5-1 to start, 7-5 prior to the injury, and then of course the wheels fell off when he lost his best player and his 2nd best player refused to step up.

The Grizzlies were bad in the several games that led to his firing, and the Grizzlies are bad now. Cannot blame Fizdale for the lack of talent Wallace assembled on this roster.

Thank you. All anyone is saying is that you start with the number one problem first. But the number one problem deflected blame onto the coach.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

This reframing of Gasol's position in this franchise by fans has got to stop.    When has Gasol ever been labeled as simply a "role player" during his tenure and multiple big paydays?     Qpon was a role player;  Bayless was a role player;  Beno was a role player;  Kosta was a role player....   You don't put up murals, pay Max money, call him the franchise cornerstone, tout his AllStar appearances and put him on Mount Grizzmore  if he is simply just a "role player".   Grizz called MARC, Mike and Parsons our version of the Big3.     Big3 label doesn't get applied to "role players".      C'mon man be real.    Only dude that had that argument is Tony and he was never actually treated like a role player either.  

Franchise cornerstones, AllStar players and Max money dudes ROUTINELY step up their production when injury hits there teams.   If you wanna argue he isn't capable of doing that consistently, sure i'll hear that.   But to argue that is not what he is SUPPOSED to do because he is just another role player (like he is James Ennis) is asinine.     Tyreke was signed to be a "role player" but that dude has stepped up consistently.   Parsons was signed to be a new cornerstone and he has failed miserably.   Big money guys don't get to fade into the background.  That ain't how it works in any sport. 

It was people like YOU who were saying he was a cornerstone and franchise player, not me.  Don't deny that you campaigned for the team to build around Marc and Mike because you were posting about it for like two years.  There are different levels of role players.  Sure, he's better than Ennis, that doesn't mean he's a superstar who is going to carry a scrub team plagued by injuries and inexperience.  Just because he is one of the best players on the team doesn't make him a superstar.  He's not.  He's very good, but he isn't ever going to carry a team as the guy, IMO.  I don't think Memphis has ever had a superstar, maybe Z-bo was closest, but not there.  The problem is that there are a lot of guys like you with unrealistic expectations.

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28 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

 Just because he is one of the best players on the team doesn't make him a superstar.  He's not.  He's very good, but he isn't ever going to carry a team as the guy, IMO.  I don't think Memphis has ever had a superstar, maybe Z-bo was closest, but not there.  The problem is that there are a lot of guys like you with unrealistic expectations.

Yep. 

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8 minutes ago, TimBC said:

Yep. 

 

37 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

It was people like YOU who were saying he was a cornerstone and franchise player, not me.  Don't deny that you campaigned for the team to build around Marc and Mike because you were posting about it for like two years.  There are different levels of role players.  Sure, he's better than Ennis, that doesn't mean he's a superstar who is going to carry a scrub team plagued by injuries and inexperience.  Just because he is one of the best players on the team doesn't make him a superstar.  He's not.  He's very good, but he isn't ever going to carry a team as the guy, IMO.  I don't think Memphis has ever had a superstar, maybe Z-bo was closest, but not there.  The problem is that there are a lot of guys like you with unrealistic expectations.

Bingo. And his max contract is far from real superstar money now. However, if you look at Mike Conley on the other hand......

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4 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Refused?!!  Why is it refused?  Why didn't we demand Chalmers or Harrison to put up 18ppg?  It would make just about as much sense.  So you're saying that since Zach's gone, he needs to step up his rebounding and inside scoring, and since TA is gone he needs to step up his defense too, and with Mike injured he needs to get the team involved by distributing the ball and driving to the hoop and by being a perimeter threat, oh, and since Vince is gone he needs to fill his shoes in leading all these young undrafted and second-round draft picks he is surrounded with.  No wonder you're angry, after Fizzdale got fired he didn't step up his coaching either!

What has happened is we've lost four major pieces, some that we had for the last eight seasons, and you somehow want a very good role player to "step up" and shoulder all that burden and carry us to victory.  It seems to me that you are asking something very unreasonable.

Ok, so you mean to tell me that you think Gasol is a role player...yet you arent appalled that this franchise is firing coaches and possibly even making major roster adjustments to accomodate the needs of a role player? Like where they do that at?

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Ok, so you mean to tell me that you think Gasol is a role player...yet you arent appalled that this franchise is firing coaches and possibly even making major roster adjustments to accomodate the needs of a role player? Like where they do that at?

What roster adjustments?

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7 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

What roster adjustments?

There are some that believe that the roster was changed to accomodate Mike and Marc. Getting rid of the older guys and getting younger players. Pace and space players. More playmakers. Not that the attempted moves were successful.

But dont dodge the whole question. Do you think it makes any sense to fire coaches over squabbles with a role player?

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4 minutes ago, Dwash said:

There are some that believe that the roster was changed to accomodate Mike and Marc. Getting rid of the older guys and getting younger players. Not that the moves were successful.

But dont dodge the whole question. Do you think it makes any sense to fire coaches over squabbles with a role player?

I'm not dodging any question, are you.  You said that they made "major roster adjustments".  What were they?

Marc is a very, very good role player, just like his brother.  Still not a guy to carry a team all by himself, just like his brother.  Apparently the FO valued him more than they did Fizzdale.

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I was told for years, including as recently as this season that Marc is the best center in the game, I will continue to judge him as such.

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16 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I'm not dodging any question, are you.  You said that they made "major roster adjustments".  What were they?

Marc is a very, very good role player, just like his brother.  Still not a guy to carry a team all by himself, just like his brother.  Apparently the FO valued him more than they did Fizzdale.

I said "possibly" made roster adjustments for him. There are some that believe that Zbo was ditched partly because he had become a poor fit with Gasol and that he needed more athletic bigs. That TA's lack of shooting was a hinderance on the Marc/Mike pnr play.  That the team should be built around them with more playmakers such as Evans/Parsons and more shooters such as McLemore. Were you honestly unaware of these theories? Again, not that these moves succeeded.

Again I ask, do you think a FO that fires coaches cause they cant get along with role players is a smart organization?

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2 hours ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

I was told for years, including as recently as this season that Marc is the best center in the game, I will continue to judge him as such.

Marc isn't even the 2nd best center in his division.

He could be, but lacks accountability and drive.

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