JWill4L

Draft And Free Agency '17

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5 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

Dion is looking to get paid and have a big role somewhere I expect him to go back to Miami.. But he would be a great fit here next to mike.

I expect him to stay in MIA but some "experts" are saying he might not get that big a pay rise because last year small sample size, maybe 8-10, where JJ could go for 15

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1 minute ago, Grizzled Vet said:

GMs talking about Alec Burks.

 

Danny Ainge, "Really like him, but were crowded at his position"

Daryl Morey, "May be in our plans, but we have other roster needs right now"

R.C. Buford, "We have high interest, but we have concerns."

Dennis Lindsey (Jazz GM), "He'd be a bigger contributor, but he's been injured"

Chris Wallace, "He's been injured?....Hold my beer"

LOL

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15 hours ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

we don't have to tank, just stop giving away future picks (clips last year,2nds this year  and so on ) .  we need to build assets but good ol CW can't see the big picture, i sure hope he doesn't invest  his money like he makes trades.

I actually believe trading two of the future 2nd round picks for 2nd round picks this season made a lot of sense. What good are 3 second round picks and a first this coming draft? What good are 3 second round picks in 2019? It makes more sense to get into a deep draft this season than to overload on an unknown draft in the next two years. 

The question is going to be did the Grizzlies err in trading for Davis and Rade for the Clippers pick in 2018? 

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15 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

I also don't think we have to tank cause I still don't believe in Wallace. But Chandler said he was 100% so I think we should go all in on the core three and take this season as a test to determine where we need to go. Having Zach and TA don't equate to more wins than having a healthy Parson.

True. However, if Chandler is 100% would the team be improved with Z-Bo and TA alongside a healthy Parsons than without them? 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

True. However, if Chandler is 100% would the team be improved with Z-Bo and TA alongside a healthy Parsons than without them? 

An argument can be made for TA alongside him but Zbo doesn't help Chandler.  

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

An argument can be made for TA alongside him but Zbo doesn't help Chandler.  

Z-Bo attracts attention in the paint giving Parsons better looks on the perimeter when team's double down on him. 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Z-Bo attracts attention in the paint giving Parsons better looks on the perimeter when team's double down on him. 

Zbo's defense is so poor that having him on the court with Parsons will be extremely problematic.  Parson's also is used to playing faster paced bball and having to slowdown to play alongside Zbo hurts that too.  

 

Tony's cutting, defense, and running is more complimentary to his game than Zbo's is.   Neither one of them space the floor. 

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I don't think Zach defense is that poor or detrimental to the team.  He's a big body with quick hands.  Never slowed down this team to having a top defense in this league. He does have trouble guarding the 3pt, but Parsons can be a good help defender as he's quick, long,  known for chasing blocks and  taking charges.

Parson played on high paced  teams but that doesn't mean he can't play slower or even has to slow down. Fizz himself said he doesn't play run and gun. He wants to play opportunistic ball.

Your assessment of spacing is also wrong. Zach demands doubles in the paint. Open shots for teammates. 

I was never a fan of Parsons, absolutely hated the deal when it went down, but i know well enough he could play with Zach.

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28 minutes ago, godrick15 said:

I don't think Zach defense is that poor or detrimental to the team.  He's a big body with quick hands.  Never slowed down this team to having a top defense in this league. He does have trouble guarding the 3pt, but Parsons can be a good help defender as he's quick, long,  known for chasing blocks and  taking charges.

Parson played on high paced  teams but that doesn't mean he can't play slower or even has to slow down. Fizz himself said he doesn't play run and gun. He wants to play opportunistic ball.

Your assessment of spacing is also wrong. Zach demands doubles in the paint. Open shots for teammates. 

I was never a fan of Parsons, absolutely hated the deal when it went down, but i know well enough he could play with Zach.

+1

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36 minutes ago, godrick15 said:

I don't think Zach defense is that poor or detrimental to the team.  He's a big body with quick hands.  Never slowed down this team to having a top defense in this league. He does have trouble guarding the 3pt, but Parsons can be a good help defender as he's quick, long,  known for chasing blocks and  taking charges.

Parson played on high paced  teams but that doesn't mean he can't play slower or even has to slow down. Fizz himself said he doesn't play run and gun. He wants to play opportunistic ball.

Your assessment of spacing is also wrong. Zach demands doubles in the paint. Open shots for teammates. 

I was never a fan of Parsons, absolutely hated the deal when it went down, but i know well enough he could play with Zach.

Opportunistic ball means ball movement and spacing.   Those too attributes do not describe zbo's play style. 

We weren't a top defensive team last two seasons and Zbo was regularly exploited on defense.   Take off the "Prime years Grizz glasses" and analyze how he has performed this past season defensively.    Same with Parsons.   Stop looking at his past performance and recognize that he is coming off THREE knee surgeries and couldn't outrun zbo in a sprint. 

Zbo demands double-teams in the paint and still proceeded to force the bucket into traffic.  We have 7 yrs worth of tape to show that Zbo didn't really pass out to those Open teammates for shots.  He'd rather dribble into a triple team or jab step for 15secs and shoot a mid-range jumper.  Gasol commanded plenty of double-teams in the paint and we all know he gladly kicked it out to teammates when defenses collapsed.  That's never been Zbo's game and everytime he did do that, entire fanbase   treated it like deserved a "goldstar". 

Parsons actually played last season and Fizz rarely played him with Zbo.  Because the defense would be too horrendous to justify. I am not making this up - go look at the tapes. 

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12 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

GMs talking about Alec Burks.

 

Danny Ainge, "Really like him, but were crowded at his position"

Daryl Morey, "May be in our plans, but we have other roster needs right now"

R.C. Buford, "We have high interest, but we have concerns."

Dennis Lindsey (Jazz GM), "He'd be a bigger contributor, but he's been injured"

Chris Wallace, "He's been injured?....Hold my beer"

roflcopter_gif_by_solaris_92-d6h7qbu.gif

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34 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Opportunistic ball means ball movement and spacing.   Those too attributes do not describe zbo's play style. 

We weren't a top defensive team last two seasons and Zbo was regularly exploited on defense.   Take off the "Prime years Grizz glasses" and analyze how he has performed this past season defensively.    Same with Parsons.   Stop looking at his past performance and recognize that he is coming off THREE knee surgeries and couldn't outrun zbo in a sprint. 

Zbo demands double-teams in the paint and still proceeded to force the bucket into traffic.  We have 7 yrs worth of tape to show that Zbo didn't really pass out to those Open teammates for shots.  He'd rather dribble into a triple team or jab step for 15secs and shoot a mid-range jumper.  Gasol commanded plenty of double-teams in the paint and we all know he gladly kicked it out to teammates when defenses collapsed.  That's never been Zbo's game and everytime he did do that, entire fanbase   treated it like deserved a "goldstar". 

Parsons actually played last season and Fizz rarely played him with Zbo.  Because the defense would be too horrendous to justify. I am not making this up - go look at the tapes. 

I take it you don't appreciate Z-Bo's game. Those who do can see quite clearly however. You should probably stop telling people to take off their "whatever snide remark you want to make" glasses or at least admit you have some pretty thick glasses on yourself.

No one has said Z-Bo today is what he was over the last 7 years and no one is also asking him to be paid what he was during that time either. Z-Bo off the bench with this team can provide somethings no one else can and the fans of his are not wrong for asking to find a way to keep him here a year or two more. Yes, Z-Bo looked horrible on defense playing center which he'd never done before. If Davis is everything his fans suggest and with a healthy Wright or even Rabb, there is no reason to force him to play out of position any more. What he can still do is rebound and score which are two traits this team is in short supply of currently. 

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11 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I take it you don't appreciate Z-Bo's game. Those who do can see quite clearly however. You should probably stop telling people to take off their "whatever snide remark you want to make" glasses or at least admit you have some pretty thick glasses on yourself.

No one has said Z-Bo today is what he was over the last 7 years and no one is also asking him to be paid what he was during that time either. Z-Bo off the bench with this team can provide somethings no one else can and the fans of his are not wrong for asking to find a way to keep him here a year or two more. Yes, Z-Bo looked horrible on defense playing center which he'd never done before. If Davis is everything his fans suggest and with a healthy Wright or even Rabb, there is no reason to force him to play out of position any more. What he can still do is rebound and score which are two traits this team is in short supply of currently. 

 

Zbo was at best the 6th best Grizzly if you care about efficiency during the regular season, and easily the worst in the playoffs.

A negative 2.1 BPM, -1.4 OPM, and a 0 VORP.

How bad he was, was masked by his incredibly high usage. 

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Just now, Silverllama said:

 

Zbo was at best the 6th best Grizzly if you care about efficiency during the regular season, and easily the worst in the playoffs.

A negative 2.1 BPM, -1.4 OPM, and a 0 VORP.

How bad he was, was masked by his incredibly high usage. 

Okay. Who can provide better production off the bench for the Grizzlies? Why do you believe Fizdale continued to use him over other options? Let's not confuse high usage in a 6 game series with effectiveness (not efficiency) in the regular season.

How bad the alternatives were was also masked by Coach Fizdale's refusal to play them instead of Z-Bo. 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Okay. Who can provide better production off the bench for the Grizzlies? Why do you believe Fizdale continued to use him over other options? Let's not confuse high usage in a 6 game series with effectiveness (not efficiency) in the regular season.

How bad the alternatives were was also masked by Coach Fizdale's refusal to play them instead of Z-Bo. 

I posted his efficiency rating the regular season. He was worse during the playoffs.

But I do have to agree with you, there. No one else could do,what Zbo did and not have the fans base all over Fizdale.

Harrison was fairly close to Zbo in inefficiency from the bench mostly. But the coach was getting crucified for playing him, because he was ineficient.

And you need someone taking the shots, might as well have the person that will get the least backlash, if your other options are just as inefficient. At the Vet minimum, Zbo makes sense. 

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19 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That's the crux of the issue i have with your view.  You still believe TA + Zbo equates to 50 wins.  Getting rid of those two doesn't signal the team is tanking.  Trading Mike or Marc can be an argument for that.    You have to let go of the idea that Zbo+TA getting major minutes is the best option for this team.   

They have declined and current NBA has dictated that their style of play is no longer feasible.    If you don't want to tank then you need to become a huge fan of Chandler Parsons.  Because his health means way more to the W-L column than Zbo or Tony. 

I didn't say TA and Z-Bo were good for 50 wins. I said the Core 4 were good for 50 wins. Which iteration of the Grizz you think is closer to 50 wins in 2018: Gasol, Conley, Parsons, and a bunch of young players and VC or Gasol, Conley, TA and Z-Bo, and role players?

Some fans on here are happy to let TA and Z-Bo walk for nothing, and think that some how the rest of that team would remain competitive. I just don't see it. I am not saying that TA and Z-Bo are " the Grizz's Jordan and Pippen". Them on the Grizz give the Grizz the best chance to remain competitive. Melo is not coming to Memphis, neither is Paul George, D Wade, the Unibrow, Hayward, Durant, LeBron, etc. What gives the Grizz the best chance to win, at least until they can acquire and develop elite level young talent through the draft, is to milk this core 4 for all they can, or trade Gasol for a young stud, if they can. Any plans that center around Parsons is a non-starter.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Opportunistic ball means ball movement and spacing.   Those too attributes do not describe zbo's play style. 

We weren't a top defensive team last two seasons and Zbo was regularly exploited on defense.   Take off the "Prime years Grizz glasses" and analyze how he has performed this past season defensively.    Same with Parsons.   Stop looking at his past performance and recognize that he is coming off THREE knee surgeries and couldn't outrun zbo in a sprint. 

Zbo demands double-teams in the paint and still proceeded to force the bucket into traffic.  We have 7 yrs worth of tape to show that Zbo didn't really pass out to those Open teammates for shots.  He'd rather dribble into a triple team or jab step for 15secs and shoot a mid-range jumper.  Gasol commanded plenty of double-teams in the paint and we all know he gladly kicked it out to teammates when defenses collapsed.  That's never been Zbo's game and everytime he did do that, entire fanbase   treated it like deserved a "goldstar". 

 

1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Parsons actually played last season and Fizz rarely played him with Zbo.  Because the defense would be too horrendous to justify. I am not making this up - go look at the tapes. 

Opportunistic basketball means opportunistic basketball. Zach demands double teams meaning someone is open regardless if he kicks it out or not. And yes, he does do that. Not as often, but I'll take Zbo putting up shots in the paint. 7 years ago or not, Zach was a leading candidate for 6th man off the  bench, is respected by the league as a threat, can get you 20/10 any given night, helped this team to go toe to toe against the 2nd seed in the west without Tony and Parsons. 

I don't need stats to tell me he had a bad series. Fizz trusted him and we competed. That series could of gone either way. We were also great against the  Warriors during the regular season.

I always hated Parsons but you can't say his career is done judging him off an injured season.  Deal him for anything but don't make that assumption. 

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23 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

I didn't say TA and Z-Bo were good for 50 wins. I said the Core 4 were good for 50 wins.

Not busting your chops here, but how do you figure this? The core 4 played their most combined minutes in 4 seasons last year and only reached 43 wins.

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55 minutes ago, Silverllama said:

 

Zbo was at best the 6th best Grizzly if you care about efficiency during the regular season, and easily the worst in the playoffs.

A negative 2.1 BPM, -1.4 OPM, and a 0 VORP.

How bad he was, was masked by his incredibly high usage. 

in my Pete Pranica voice "BANGO"!

46 minutes ago, Silverllama said:

I posted his efficiency rating the regular season. He was worse during the playoffs.

But I do have to agree with you, there. No one else could do,what Zbo did and not have the fans base all over Fizdale.

Harrison was fairly close to Zbo in inefficiency from the bench mostly. But the coach was getting crucified for playing him, because he was ineficient.

And you need someone taking the shots, might as well have the person that will get the least backlash, if your other options are just as inefficient. At the Vet minimum, Zbo makes sense. 

Could not have said it better myself.  It was no different than all the rope that Tony Allen gets when he blows assignments, fouls 3pt shooters, and misses layups or dribbles the ball off his foot.   Fans would crucify any rookie that did the same things.     

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7 minutes ago, godrick15 said:

 

Opportunistic basketball means opportunistic basketball. Zach demands double teams meaning someone is open regardless if he kicks it out or not. And yes, he does do that. Not as often, but I'll take Zbo putting up shots in the paint. 7 years ago or not, Zach was a leading candidate for 6th man off the  bench, is respected by the league as a threat, can get you 20/10 any given night, helped this team to go toe to toe against the 2nd seed in the west without Tony and Parsons. 

I don't need stats to tell me he had a bad series. Fizz trusted him and we competed. That series could of gone either way. We were also great against the  Warriors during the regular season.

I always hated Parsons but you can't say his career is done judging him off an injured season.  Deal him for anything but don't make that assumption. 

That phrase in a nutshell is the main value of bringing back Zbo at this point.   He is respected by the fanbase and the league.   I will never argue against that. 

However, the main problem is his production and fit no longer merit keeping him around.   The problem is in order to get production out of zbo he HAS to be a high usage player but accommodating that means you have to adapt your style to fit him.  His production no longer justifies doing that.   Why won't fans admit this?

There is a reason why most people have no issue with resigning Vince Carter if we had the roster spaces.   It's because his style of play fits is adaptable into any system and he has already shown ability as a mentor.     

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There are Rudy for the MLE rumors floating around cheap Jam replacement.

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9 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That phrase in a nutshell is the main value of bringing back Zbo at this point.   He is respected by the fanbase and the league.   I will never argue against that. 

However, the main problem is his production and fit no longer merit keeping him around.   The problem is in order to get production out of zbo he HAS to be a high usage player but accommodating that means you have to adapt your style to fit him.  His production no longer justifies doing that.   Why won't fans admit this?

There is a reason why most people have no issue with resigning Vince Carter if we had the roster spaces.   It's because his style of play fits is adaptable into any system and he has already shown ability as a mentor.     

Because most knowledge basketball fans realize that low post scoring is a necessary part of any offense, no matter how much you believe it's not.

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6 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

There are Rudy for the MLE rumors floating around cheap Jam replacement.

If we are endanger of not resigning JaMyke i'd see if we could pry Al Farooq Aminu from POR.  

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