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For a total of $36.5M in cap holds, to add to our current salary total of $50.5M, which leaves us at $87M or $19.9M over the cap.

 

Cap holds have nothing to do with waived contracts. In fact waiving a contract automatically eliminates its cap hold.

Marc and the 1st round pick's cap holds are the only ones that are worth keeping if it meant getting a player of Ellis' caliber.

 

Couldn't you just renounce the bird rights to Koufos, Calathes, Pondexter TPE, etc. to create much more cap space? Otherwise how do teams ever create ample cap space?

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i dont really like the idea of giving anything away to dump vc and i bet that's what it would take .  we'd have tons of work to do to having meaningful room under the cap. Gasol maxed & green stays is gonna be close o to 80M  . thats a ton of money to trade, at that point your gonna be paying top dollar to dump guys cause other team will know you want a FA.

 

i think dumping them both won't be much better than having MLE money maybe even WORSE. 

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Marc's and the 1st round pick's cap holds are the only ones that are worth keeping if it meant getting a high-level player like Ellis.

 

Couldn't you just renounce the bird rights to Koufos, Calathes, Pondexter TPE, etc. to create much more cap space? Otherwise how do teams ever create ample cap space?

Let's say we rescind all of our outstanding cap holds except Marc's and the draft pick's. That's $15.1M, we're still $4.8M over the cap and now you don't have any exceptions and have to fill the roster with Marc, the draft pick and minimum salaries.

 

Remember, since you cannot both be under the cap and use the MLE, for us to be worth the effort we'd have to go more than $5.5M under the cap. Otherwise we might as well stay over the cap and use the MLE. And to shed that much salary we'd have to completely gut the roster.

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i dont really like the idea of giving anything away to dump vc and i bet that's what it would take .  we'd have tons of work to do to having meaningful room under the cap. Gasol maxed & green stays is gonna be close o to 80M  . thats a ton of money to trade, at that point your gonna be paying top dollar to dump guys cause other team will know you want a FA.

 

i think dumping them both won't be much better than having MLE money maybe even WORSE. 

Frankly, given our salary structure our best bet is to resign both Marc and KK, Green picking up his option, use the MLE (we'd be well below the tax) and then use our assets plus the TPE to round out the team through trades.

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For a total of $36.5M in cap holds, to add to our current salary total of $50.5M, which leaves us at $87M or $19.9M over the cap.

 

 

 

Cap holds have nothing to do with waived contracts. In fact waiving a contract automatically eliminates its cap hold.

That cant be right cause we werent over the cap this season so how would we go over the cap when we will lose at least 3 players and the cap will go up. You cant tell me that if we lose KK Calathes and Leuer that we will only have the MLE to work with.

 

Like Guinness said how do other team with bigger contracts than us afford to sign FA's

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That cant be right cause we werent over the cap this season so how would we go over the cap when we will lose at least 3 players and the cap will go up. You cant tell me that if we lose KK Calathes and Leuer that we will only have the MLE to work with.

Like Guinness said how do other team with bigger contracts than us afford to sign FA's

Sigh.

 

http://www.cbafaq.com

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Frankly, given our salary structure our best bet is to resign both Marc and KK, Green picking up his option, use the MLE (we'd be well below the tax) and then use our assets plus the TPE to round out the team through trades.

Yeah, looking at it pragmatically and with the numbers fleshed out, you're probably right. I always catch myself wanting to shoot for the moon haha. Happens every summer. I just hope the men in charge have something good up their sleeves.

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Frankly, given our salary structure our best bet is to resign both Marc and KK, Green picking up his option, use the MLE (we'd be well below the tax) and then use our assets plus the TPE to round out the team through trades.

i agree ..

 

leuer is an asset or would be for a savy enough GM , If he can be dealt and waived to a team 1M or so away from landing their guy .  

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That cant be right cause we werent over the cap this season so how would we go over the cap when we will lose at least 3 players and the cap will go up. You cant tell me that if we lose KK Calathes and Leuer that we will only have the MLE to work with.

 

Like Guinness said how do other team with bigger contracts than us afford to sign FA's

na he's correct ,we will be  over the cap with them gone .. it really takes gasol walking or a s & t and taking back way less( like only picks ) to get a big time player .even if KK and everyone else is gone .  still could leave us short of maxing some guys out .( like jordan ) . maybe i'm the one way off here .or forgot to subtract a number :P

 

 

,look at the lakers , they pulled a nice underrated move and overpaid Jordan hill last year not giving a flip about last years $$  to get that team option for a reason .. 

 

with kobe's big contract they got young signed randle & kelly , everyone else can be waived to save money( or some money at least )  davis has a player option , thats how teams get $$. 

 

you know they loving it too.  thats why i'd offer them leuer for Kelly  +  Scare /  2nd or something ,  you know they rather have that money than kelly on the books . no way they let ryan kelly get in the way of Butler + another good players .  maybe they seen something and a deal like that is way off but i doubt it's too far off base .

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This is so depressing so we have no assets no draft picks no money and an aging core who needs help but we basically have no way to sign them any help

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Just putting it all in one place.

 

Signed for next year

Zbo ... 9,638,555.

MC ... 9,680,000.

CLee ..5,675,000.

TA ... 5,000,000.

VC ... 4,088,019

BUdrih ... 2,170,465

JAdams ... 1,404,600

JStokes ... 845,059

Total.................................38,501,698 

 

Player option

Jeff Green ... 9,200,000

 

Team Option

Leuer ... 1,035,000

Russ Smith ...845,059

JaM Green ... 845,059

 

Qualifying Offer

Calathes ... 1,147,276

 

 

Unrestricted Free Agents

Marc

Kosta

 

 

Projected Salary Cap ... 67,100,000

Projected Tax Line ... 81,600,000

 

 

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no we have assets , nick , leuer , stokes ,smith,Jamgreen  all can be sent out just to get waived i believe 

 

TPE too.

 

 that's why trading green & vc is such a long shot right now. teams that can absorb those contracts would be wanting to spend their money on a free agents .  once dudes start getting signed maybe .

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Just putting it all in one place.

 

Signed for next year

Zbo ... 9,638,555.

MC ... 9,680,000.

CLee ..5,675,000.

TA ... 5,000,000.

VC ... 4,088,019

BUdrih ... 2,170,465

JAdams ... 1,404,600

JStokes ... 845,059

Total.................................38,501,698 

 

Player option

Jeff Green ... 9,200,000

 

Team Option

Leuer ... 1,035,000

Russ Smith ...845,059

JaM Green ... 845,059

 

Qualifying Offer

Calathes ... 1,147,276

 

 

Unrestricted Free Agents

Marc

Kosta

 

 

Projected Salary Cap ... 67,100,000

Projected Tax Line ... 81,600,000

should be a sticky and our 1st round pick is 1,025,700 according to basketballinsiders

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One thing to note with the changing cba and the caps goin up like crazy next next year; players aren't gonna be looking for long term deals this summer.

 

Thats big in our chances of landing a Lou Williams or Rodney Stuckey for just the mle, albeit probably on a 1 year deal.

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One thing to note with the changing cba and the caps goin up like crazy next next year; players aren't gonna be looking for long term deals this summer.

 

Thats big in our chances of landing a Lou Williams or Rodney Stuckey for just the mle, albeit probably on a 1 year deal.

yup . hopefully we are willing to give 1 year deal or player options .  

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What if we traded jeff to the lakers for nick young and their late 1st

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By the way, Ndq, sorry if I sounded condescending in my last post, it was 3AM my time and I just couldn't muster the strength for another long post about the details of the CBA. Far from my intention.

 

There are a couple of basic misconceptions regarding the salary cap that crop up very often in the forums. It's a bit grating to go through all these threads discussing moves that are basically illegal, especially when they blame the FO/Joerger for not pulling the trigger. The fact is the new CBA is far more restrictive than the previous one and the FOs have their work cut out for them in order to make moves.

 

First, and it's a bit shocking that there are so many posters unclear about this, but the salary cap and the tax line are not the same. The salary cap is a line above which the only way to add salary is to use one of the exceptions allowed in the CBA. The tax line is the point where you have to pay tax, and comes with a few more restrictions in spending, but since we're not there we'll ignore them from now.

 

Second, and more importantly, for the purpose of signing FAs, the team salary is not only the sum of the guaranteed contracts. You must also add the following:

- All non-guaranteed salary in existing contracts (in our case, Jon Leuer, Beno Udrih and Russ Smith)

- All team and player options (in our case, Jeff Green's)

- All remaining salary from waived/stretched players

- Cap holds for our own unsigned free agents, with the cap hold amounts varying depending on their previous salary, type of Bird rights, or their being restricted or unrestricted (Marc's cap hold is his max salary, KK's is 190% of his previous salary, Nick's is the amount of his QO)

- Cap holds for all available exceptions (in our case, the MLE and the TPE)

- Cap holds for players no longer in the NBA but who haven't filed for retirement (note that signing in another league doesn't remove the cap hold).

 

When you add all those concepts you can find that a team with large expiring contracts like ours is way above the cap for signing purposes even if the guaranteed team salary is apparently way below the cap. The thing is, all the salary tied up in options, ungaranteed salary and cap holds can be freed by declining the options, waiving the unguaranteed players and renouncing the FAs. So, potentially, it would be possible to free up a lot of salary if we were willing to let all of our FAs walk and we waived all team options and ungaranteed players (and even more if Green doesn't pick up his option), but then you are faced with 7-8 roster spots that you need to fill with whatever the money you have left under the cap after. This isn't really an option for us.

 

The summary is we don't have a lot of purchasing power for FAs in the offseason. The only realistic options aside from our own FAs and draft picks are the MLE ($5.5M) and the TPE ($3.1M).

 

Now, that's not the same as saying we don't have assets at all. We have lots of tradeable players in the roster (including bottom of the barrel pieces like Leuer or Stokes) let alone if we re-sign Marc and KK. It's a bit conterintuitive, but if you are above the cap and want to change your team through trades, the more salary you have the better, because that means that you have the potential to move large contracts around. As an example, we could in theory package Marc, Green and Beno ($32M in salary) for, say, Paul George and Roy Hibbert straight up. Good luck trying doing that with a collection of smaller contracts, it would be impossible due to the lack of roster spots in the receiving team.

 

So what this means is unless we go the 3YP way and trade away half the team for expirings and picks, all we can reallistically do in the offseason is resign some or all of our FAs and fill some needs with the exceptions we have, but we set up ourselves for MAJOR moves in the trade season or in the next offseason. So it's not by any means a bad situation, it's just that we need to follow a certain strategy, and frankly, given our troubles to attract impact FAs I can't say it's a bad choice.

 

The flip side of this, of course, is that if Marc simply walks we can't really replace him since removing his cap hold only puts us slightly under the cap, and we'd lose our best future trade asset.

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By the way, Ndq, sorry if I sounded condescending in my last post, it was 3AM my time and I just couldn't muster the strength for another long post about the details of the CBA. Far from my intention.

 

There are a couple of basic misconceptions regarding the salary cap that crop up very often in the forums. It's a bit grating to go through all these threads discussing moves that are basically illegal, especially when they blame the FO/Joerger for not pulling the trigger. The fact is the new CBA is far more restrictive than the previous one and the FOs have their work cut out for them in order to make moves.

 

First, and it's a bit shocking that there are so many posters unclear about this, but the salary cap and the tax line are not the same. The salary cap is a line above which the only way to add salary is to use one of the exceptions allowed in the CBA. The tax line is the point where you have to pay tax, and comes with a few more restrictions in spending, but since we're not there we'll ignore them from now.

 

Second, and more importantly, for the purpose of signing FAs, the team salary is not only the sum of the guaranteed contracts. You must also add the following:

- All non-guaranteed salary in existing contracts (in our case, Jon Leuer, Beno Udrih and Russ Smith)

- All team and player options (in our case, Jeff Green's)

- All remaining salary from waived/stretched players

- Cap holds for our own unsigned free agents, with the cap hold amounts varying depending on their previous salary, type of Bird rights, or their being restricted or unrestricted (Marc's cap hold is his max salary, KK's is 190% of his previous salary, Nick's is the amount of his QO)

- Cap holds for all available exceptions (in our case, the MLE and the TPE)

- Cap holds for players no longer in the NBA but who haven't filed for retirement (note that signing in another league doesn't remove the cap hold).

 

When you add all those concepts you can find that a team with large expiring contracts like ours is way above the cap for signing purposes even if the guaranteed team salary is apparently way below the cap. The thing is, all the salary tied up in options, ungaranteed salary and cap holds can be freed by declining the options, waiving the unguaranteed players and renouncing the FAs. So, potentially, it would be possible to free up a lot of salary if we were willing to let all of our FAs walk and we waived all team options and ungaranteed players (and even more if Green doesn't pick up his option), but then you are faced with 7-8 roster spots that you need to fill with whatever the money you have left under the cap after. This isn't really an option for us.

 

The summary is we don't have a lot of purchasing power for FAs in the offseason. The only realistic options aside from our own FAs and draft picks are the MLE ($5.5M) and the TPE ($3.1M).

 

Now, that's not the same as saying we don't have assets at all. We have lots of tradeable players in the roster (including bottom of the barrel pieces like Leuer or Stokes) let alone if we re-sign Marc and KK. It's a bit conterintuitive, but if you are above the cap and want to change your team through trades, the more salary you have the better, because that means that you have the potential to move large contracts around. As an example, we could in theory package Marc, Green and Beno ($32M in salary) for, say, Paul George and Roy Hibbert straight up. Good luck trying doing that with a collection of smaller contracts, it would be impossible due to the lack of roster spots in the receiving team.

 

So what this means is unless we go the 3YP way and trade away half the team for expirings and picks, all we can reallistically do in the offseason is resign some or all of our FAs and fill some needs with the exceptions we have, but we set up ourselves for MAJOR moves in the trade season or in the next offseason. So it's not by any means a bad situation, it's just that we need to follow a certain strategy, and frankly, given our troubles to attract impact FAs I can't say it's a bad choice.

 

The flip side of this, of course, is that if Marc simply walks we can't really replace him since removing his cap hold only puts us slightly under the cap, and we'd lose our best future trade asset.

Thats why ibsaid it was depressing cause we cant afford any of the B tier players in the offseason with the MLE so C tier guys are more likely and a possible jeff green trade to find a sf that can shoot. That's why i said Green for swaggy P and the pick it could possibly save us some money since Greens deal is almost 4 mil more

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- Cap holds for all available exceptions (in our case, the MLE and the TPE)

 

One clarification about this. Exceptions only create cap holds when the team is under the cap. Of course this doesn't change anything because if we drop enough salary to go under the cap then these cap holds push us back over it, so for all intents and purposes it's as if they're always there, but it may explain why they're not usually listed in the websites that show team salaries.

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Under the radar moves that Grizz will need to make to stay competitive.  Face it we aren't attracting any big time FA unless they are on steep decline (Vince, Miller)   Most of the guys we have to look at will be cast offs or former disappointments. 

 

If Jeff opts out here are some SF's that are obtainable in FA

 

Jeff Taylor

Jeremy Evans

KJ McDaniels.

 

Those are all young athletic guys that can possibly be developed into the type of 3 &D players we need at the SF spot.  They are far from perfect as currently developed. 

 

Shooters available in our range

 

John Jenkins

Ian Clark

 

alright anybody else ready for that parade on Beale!!!   

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Under the radar moves that Grizz will need to make to stay competitive.  Face it we aren't attracting any big time FA unless they are on steep decline (Vince, Miller)   Most of the guys we have to look at will be cast offs or former disappointments. 

 

Shooters available in our range

 

John Jenkins

Ian Clark

 

alright anybody else ready for that parade on Beale!!!   

 

I'd take John Jenkins in a heart beat, but we already have this massive logjam at SG...

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Under the radar moves that Grizz will need to make to stay competitive.  Face it we aren't attracting any big time FA unless they are on steep decline (Vince, Miller)   Most of the guys we have to look at will be cast offs or former disappointments. 

 

If Jeff opts out here are some SF's that are obtainable in FA

 

Jeff Taylor

Jeremy Evans

KJ McDaniels.

 

Those are all young athletic guys that can possibly be developed into the type of 3 &D players we need at the SF spot.  They are far from perfect as currently developed. 

 

Shooters available in our range

 

John Jenkins

Ian Clark

 

alright anybody else ready for that parade on Beale!!!

 

Thats way under the radar i was more on the lines of Omri Caspi Joe Ingles

 

Ian is my little brother from another mother he and my sister dated. I would love for him to come home but Joerger would never play him

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Conley/Isaiah Thomas/Calathes

Lee/Adams/Alan Anderson

Green/Dorrell Wright/Carter

Zbo/Montrezl Harrell/Jam

Gasol/Antic

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