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29 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

I said thank you, and that I will have to accept the stats.

Why are you so agro?

 

Don't sweat it. You are a quality poster that has the ability to see others perspectives (right or wrong). IMO, we need more guys like you.

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9 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Don't sweat it. You are a quality poster that has the ability to see others perspectives (right or wrong). IMO, we need more guys like you.

+1

I think smr just misinterpreted, but I may be the one misinterpreting...

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20 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Don't sweat it. You are a quality poster that has the ability to see others perspectives (right or wrong). IMO, we need more guys like you.

Thanks brother, appreciated

Just like "the Conley doesn't get calls" issue - you showed us that it was not all together true, even though its a widely held belief here, and even with people like Brevin, even Fizdale

The stats were surprising.

Glad you didn't chew us all out 😎

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14 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

+1

I think smr just misinterpreted, but I may be the one misinterpreting...

who knows.....

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I'd like to go for Derrick rose or jeremy lin for our backup pg next year. Also looks like a definite that Jabari parker will be available next year. We might take a look at him for a bench scorer. Might even trade for him this year, for Parsons and some picks, then maybe re sign him or let him walk. They wouldn't have a lot of reason to do that since he's got a team option. 

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16 hours ago, Allen said:

How has that worked out the past five years? Martin, Davis, Baldwin, Harrison etc all gone

None of those guys were top#8 lottery picks nor had the ceiling of Frank.   So technically we haven't done what i am suggesting we do.   Which is use an expiring contract to grab future talent.    We wasted Tyreke, Kosta, and others before them on trying to squeeze out an extra couple of wins on non-contenders.    

14 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I would be hesitant to replace mack in the middle of the season for a guy that isn't much of an immediate upgrade, If we get Wall, yeah. But Frank Nil, nah.

Frank isn't supposed to be an upgrade to PG this season.  I said he was a move that is about looking to the future (pairing with Jaren).   I am not crying over losing a career backup PG.   Mack is inconsistent as hades and isn't some world beater.   he is decent for what he is and that is a backup pg.   It would be much easier to make a move IF JB ever bothered to give Jevon a chance.  
Besides there is no guarantee that Mack would even be required part of trade.  I was just saying if he is that better not be the hold up.  

 

We need to make roster move to either address perimeter scoring to help Mike&Marc today OR make a move to help Jaren in the future.     Those are the only reasons anyone should even be posting in this thread.   

IMHO i think our roster move should be geared more towards the future.     Jaren will be an AllStar level player at the least but we have no other youngsters currently on roster that can even sniff that.    When Jaren is 23 (4yrs from now) about to go into his prime Mike and Marc will not be viable as complimentary stars.    Don't want to end up with another AD situation where JJJ is just waiting on Free Agency to leave here because he has no real help.    We need another guy that has the talent to realistically become an AllStar level player.   How else can we obtain that if not by betting on guys like Frank N (while not tanking)?

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16 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

None of those guys were top#8 lottery picks nor had the ceiling of Frank.   So technically we haven't done what i am suggesting we do.   Which is use an expiring contract to grab future talent.    We wasted Tyreke, Kosta, and others before them on trying to squeeze out an extra couple of wins on non-contenders.    

Frank isn't supposed to be an upgrade to PG this season.  I said he was a move that is about looking to the future (pairing with Jaren).   I am not crying over losing a career backup PG.   Mack is inconsistent as hades and isn't some world beater.   he is decent for what he is and that is a backup pg.   It would be much easier to make a move IF JB ever bothered to give Jevon a chance.  
Besides there is no guarantee that Mack would even be required part of trade.  I was just saying if he is that better not be the hold up.  

 

We need to make roster move to either address perimeter scoring to help Mike&Marc today OR make a move to help Jaren in the future.     Those are the only reasons anyone should even be posting in this thread.   

IMHO i think our roster move should be geared more towards the future.     Jaren will be an AllStar level player at the least but we have no other youngsters currently on roster that can even sniff that.    When Jaren is 23 (4yrs from now) about to go into his prime Mike and Marc will not be viable as complimentary stars.    Don't want to end up with another AD situation where JJJ is just waiting on Free Agency to leave here because he has no real help.    We need another guy that has the talent to realistically become an AllStar level player.   How else can we obtain that if not by betting on guys like Frank N (while not tanking)?

I dont think him being picked any higher matters once you get to the league and its clear you cant play. They are all scrap pile guys after a couple of years. One issue with rebuilding on the fly that I have always said is that the way the Grizzlies play, they just aren't going to tolerate the mistakes that Frank N is going to make. Its 50% of the reason that we NEVER develop any young players. Everyone knows he is an athlete only but doesnt know how to play. If he isn't playing well for an uptempo team as bad as New York, his chances in Memphis on a half court based team trying to win are almost zero unless you are willing to give away crucial minutes to develop him. They will never do that ever.

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42 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I dont think him being picked any higher matters once you get to the league and its clear you cant play. They are all scrap pile guys after a couple of years. One issue with rebuilding on the fly that I have always said is that the way the Grizzlies play, they just aren't going to tolerate the mistakes that Frank N is going to make. Its 50% of the reason that we NEVER develop any young players. Everyone knows he is an athlete only but doesnt know how to play. If he isn't playing well for an uptempo team as bad as New York, his chances in Memphis on a half court based team trying to win are almost zero unless you are willing to give away crucial minutes to develop him. They will never do that ever.

He is a good defender already - which means that he will get the opportunity for our team.   It isn't clear at all that he can't play.   What is clear is that he can't play from the bench.   https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/12/12/18134881/frank-ntilikina-the-latest-knick-to-breakout-after-being-benched

Now we move to Ntilikina. Through the first 12 games of the season, Ntilikina — aside from a few clunkers — was playing pretty well. In 27.8 minutes per game, he was posting 8.1 points on 36 percent from the field (30 percent from three), 3.8 assists, 1.9 rebounds and 1.1 steals. Those numbers don’t jump off the page, but the thing with Ntilikina is that he always looks to make the right play, even when you sometimes want him to do something selfish, and whenever you watch him play it just feels like he’s making a positive impact on the team....Fizdale decided to do with Ntilikina what he had done with Dotson and Burke, to the dismay of fans and media across New York. If the Dotson and Burke benchings had a handful of fans up in arms, the Frank exile had a horde of hands clamoring for answers. Frank is only 20-years-old, everyone said. He makes the team around him better, everyone said. He should be allowed to play through his struggles, everyone said....Everyone may have been right, but there’s no question that Ntilikina has played with more gusto in the two games Fizdale has allowed him to play in since the original benching. Truth be told, it seemed like Fizdale may have wanted to sit Ntilikina for another game or two, but the noise got so loud that he decided to free Frank from his shackles this past Saturday, giving him almost 16 minutes of playing time in the second half against the Brooklyn Nets. In those meager minutes, Ntilikina had 7 points on 3-6 shooting and 3 assists. He broke out Sunday night against the Charlotte Hornets, scoring 18 points on 7-11 shooting (4-4 from three! Hooray!) and dolling out 1 assist before fouling out.

He is a 20yr old second year player under a new coach.  How is the verdict out that he can't play?   I am not expecting him to take over Conley's spot from day 1.   The plan is to develop him and see if he is ultimately better as PG or Combo either way he should be perfect to play with Jaren due to his already proven defensive acumen.   

Can't keep making the develop young players argument when we have entirely new coach and staff that are already showing they are committed to developing Jaren and was developing Dillon before his injury.   I have a difficult time thinking they wouldn't have a plan for 20y #8 pick as well.   

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

He is a good defender already - which means that he will get the opportunity for our team.   It isn't clear at all that he can't play.   What is clear is that he can't play from the bench.   https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/12/12/18134881/frank-ntilikina-the-latest-knick-to-breakout-after-being-benched

Now we move to Ntilikina. Through the first 12 games of the season, Ntilikina — aside from a few clunkers — was playing pretty well. In 27.8 minutes per game, he was posting 8.1 points on 36 percent from the field (30 percent from three), 3.8 assists, 1.9 rebounds and 1.1 steals. Those numbers don’t jump off the page, but the thing with Ntilikina is that he always looks to make the right play, even when you sometimes want him to do something selfish, and whenever you watch him play it just feels like he’s making a positive impact on the team....Fizdale decided to do with Ntilikina what he had done with Dotson and Burke, to the dismay of fans and media across New York. If the Dotson and Burke benchings had a handful of fans up in arms, the Frank exile had a horde of hands clamoring for answers. Frank is only 20-years-old, everyone said. He makes the team around him better, everyone said. He should be allowed to play through his struggles, everyone said....Everyone may have been right, but there’s no question that Ntilikina has played with more gusto in the two games Fizdale has allowed him to play in since the original benching. Truth be told, it seemed like Fizdale may have wanted to sit Ntilikina for another game or two, but the noise got so loud that he decided to free Frank from his shackles this past Saturday, giving him almost 16 minutes of playing time in the second half against the Brooklyn Nets. In those meager minutes, Ntilikina had 7 points on 3-6 shooting and 3 assists. He broke out Sunday night against the Charlotte Hornets, scoring 18 points on 7-11 shooting (4-4 from three! Hooray!) and dolling out 1 assist before fouling out.

He is a 20yr old second year player under a new coach.  How is the verdict out that he can't play?   I am not expecting him to take over Conley's spot from day 1.   The plan is to develop him and see if he is ultimately better as PG or Combo either way he should be perfect to play with Jaren due to his already proven defensive acumen.   

Can't keep making the develop young players argument when we have entirely new coach and staff that are already showing they are committed to developing Jaren and was developing Dillon before his injury.   I have a difficult time thinking they wouldn't have a plan for 20y #8 pick as well.   

Dude he plays 22 mins a night (21 last year) and his overall body of work is complete trash!! He has started, he has come off the bench, the bottom line is that he has played like trash (offensively, dont know about his defense but we coulda kept Harrison for that). Who cares if every now and then he scored 12 points? So did Jarell Martin, Baldwin, Dede, etc. Overall, these guys are currently trash. Currently, not his potential. There is absolute no debating this, he stinks right now so I dont think this can go any further if you cant accept this reality.

As for Dillon, his role certainly regressed as veterans were added...and he wasnt trash last year. JJJ is playing well...but.even he was headed for a bench role until Jamychal Green got hurt. And he is probably the third best player on the team. T

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26 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Dude he plays 22 mins a night (21 last year) and his overall body of work is complete trash!! He has started, he has come off the bench, the bottom line is that he has played like trash (offensively, dont know about his defense but we coulda kept Harrison for that). Who cares if every now and then he scored 12 points? So did Jarell Martin, Baldwin, Dede, etc. Overall, these guys are currently trash. Currently, not his potential. There is absolute no debating this, he stinks right now so I dont think this can go any further if you cant accept this reality.

As for Dillon, his role certainly regressed as veterans were added...and he wasnt trash last year. JJJ is playing well...but.even he was headed for a bench role until Jamychal Green got hurt. And he is probably the third best player on the team. T

Its too early to make a definitive statement like that.  And he actually has talent and skills, unlike Harrison, to go along with his defensive ability.    I am not saying he is the next Russel Westbrook; i am saying that his ceiling is higher than all the other guys you mentioned.    Why are you acting like his future is a foregone conclusion like we haven't seen plenty of examples of rookie/soph players turn it around after more development.    That is the reality.  

Dillon's role regressed because he looked like garbage in preseason and mostly because we had new players that needed to be integrated.    Once JB got a feel for the roster Dillon's minutes increased.     I don't see how anyone can say JB isn't willing to develop young guys.   Keep in mind he is a rookie coach that is being tasked with making the playoffs too.   

They have a plan for JJJ and are sticking to it.  As Jaren shows he can handle more they are giving him more.  It's really difficult to complain about how they are handling him.  Recently my issue has been more with Mike and Marc freezing him out on offense than JB.    

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Its too early to make a definitive statement like that.  And he actually has talent and skills, unlike Harrison, to go along with his defensive ability.    I am not saying he is the next Russel Westbrook; i am saying that his ceiling is higher than all the other guys you mentioned.    Why are you acting like his future is a foregone conclusion like we haven't seen plenty of examples of rookie/soph players turn it around after more development.    That is the reality.  

Dillon's role regressed because he looked like garbage in preseason and mostly because we had new players that needed to be integrated.    Once JB got a feel for the roster Dillon's minutes increased.     I don't see how anyone can say JB isn't willing to develop young guys.   Keep in mind he is a rookie coach that is being tasked with making the playoffs too.   

They have a plan for JJJ and are sticking to it.  As Jaren shows he can handle more they are giving him more.  It's really difficult to complain about how they are handling him.  Recently my issue has been more with Mike and Marc freezing him out on offense than JB.    

Too early? Its a statement based on his performance so far. He has PLAYED like trash. Again, are you denying his stats are trash? Are you denying he has gotten fair playing time? And most guys who have received ample playing time for over a year and still look like trash end up being nothing. Like atleast 90% of them, if not more.

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4 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Too early? Its a statement based on his performance so far. He has PLAYED like trash. Again, are you denying his stats are trash? Are you denying he has gotten fair playing time? And most guys who have received ample playing time for over a year and still look like trash end up being nothing. Like atleast 90% of them, if not more.

I am sorry that i just can't say that a 20y is already a finished project and doomed to be what he is already.    Maybe my memory is failing me but i recall you being on the side of young player development.  Which means that you allow young players to gain experience in spite of how bad they are performing.   I know you understand the point of development.  That is my argument.  Heck if he was showing greatness already we wouldn't be having this conversation because he wouldn't be available. 

Majority of all players are gonna be bad coming out of the draft - especially from PG position (Conley, Trae...).     
Its toooo early to close the book.   This is his second coach already.  

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bulls gauging interest around the league for interest for Jabari parker.  secondly trying to assess financial barriers.  i don't know how much he is making; but i wondered would a parson and temple deal work straight up for him.  thoughts?

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I am sorry that i just can't say that a 20y is already a finished project and doomed to be what he is already.    Maybe my memory is failing me but i recall you being on the side of young player development.  Which means that you allow young players to gain experience in spite of how bad they are performing.   I know you understand the point of development.  That is my argument.  Heck if he was showing greatness already we wouldn't be having this conversation because he wouldn't be available. 

Majority of all players are gonna be bad coming out of the draft - especially from PG position (Conley, Trae...).     
Its toooo early to close the book.   This is his second coach already.  

I can be sold on guys who have not played yet or have not gotten a fair shake.  Ie, a Markelle Fultz. Again, the difference here is that this guy has actually been given minutes on a bad team in a less complex opportunistic offense. He could "get better" but right now he isnt just decent or mediocre with some things to work on, he is flat foot terrible and has a very long way to go to become even an average player, much less a player worth keeping.  As shaky as Conley looked early on he was never half this bad, even as a rookie. Young player or not I know when something is a waste of time.

How many currently productive players who actually received playing time in their first two years were this bad? I cant think of any really.

Being a 20 y/o means nothing these days as many of them come in at 19 now.

 

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1 hour ago, gentlemanquartely said:

bulls gauging interest around the league for interest for Jabari parker.  secondly trying to assess financial barriers.  i don't know how much he is making; but i wondered would a parson and temple deal work straight up for him.  thoughts?

His contract is just about as bad as Parsons. He makes 20m this year and 20m next year before being a UFA. And he's not good.

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21 minutes ago, srmjr23 said:

His contract is just about as bad as Parsons. He makes 20m this year and 20m next year before being a UFA. And he's not good.

Next year is a team option.

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2 hours ago, gentlemanquartely said:

bulls gauging interest around the league for interest for Jabari parker.  secondly trying to assess financial barriers.  i don't know how much he is making; but i wondered would a parson and temple deal work straight up for him.  thoughts?

He makes less than Parsons (20 million to 24.5 million for Parsons), so it wouldn't make sense to send anyone else to them financially. I don't know what they would want back as far as players are concerned. Plus he plays PF, and I don't see him getting many minutes ahead of JaM. We could obviously trade JaM (I hear KCP is available), but you would certainly lose a lot of defense if you do that. 

The only way I see us doing any deal is if we get Justin Holiday back in the deal, but we'd have to send some draft capital back, or maybe try it without Holiday. I don't know, there's no way we would decline his option for next year. There is no one willing to pay him 20 million dollars a year to not play defense. The only thing I could hope from this deal is we get him around veterans that can help him at least try on defense. 

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2 hours ago, gentlemanquartely said:

bulls gauging interest around the league for interest for Jabari parker.  secondly trying to assess financial barriers.  i don't know how much he is making; but i wondered would a parson and temple deal work straight up for him.  thoughts?

Jabari + Felicio for Parsons + Rabb + two 2nds 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

He makes less than Parsons (20 million to 24.5 million for Parsons), so it wouldn't make sense to send anyone else to them financially. I don't know what they would want back as far as players are concerned. Plus he plays PF, and I don't see him getting many minutes ahead of JaM. We could obviously trade JaM (I hear KCP is available), but you would certainly lose a lot of defense if you do that. 

The only way I see us doing any deal is if we get Justin Holiday back in the deal, but we'd have to send some draft capital back, or maybe try it without Holiday. I don't know, there's no way we would decline his option for next year. There is no one willing to pay him 20 million dollars a year to not play defense. The only thing I could hope from this deal is we get him around veterans that can help him at least try on defense. 

Jabari for Parsons works straight up. It would be fantastic for us but I don't see why the Bulls would do it. More salary and more years, they'd have to be really anxious to get rid of Parker to bite.

We wouldn't need to play Parker at all. Just decline his option and waive him, we get $4.5M away from the tax line, and we get a roster spot we can fill with a minimum salary veteran.

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Well gotta give CWallace and Co.  credit.  Oubre for Selden and Marshon is a heckuva lot better than i could've imagine.   No need to kick tires on Frank.  Oubre is a talented enough guy and young enough (23y) to be part of new core with Jaren.   Great move!

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Well gotta give CWallace and Co.  credit.  Oubre for Selden and Marshon is a heckuva lot better than i could've imagine.   No need to kick tires on Frank.  Oubre is a talented enough guy and young enough (23y) to be part of new core with Jaren.   Great move!

That would have been a great deal, I just dont want to loose Dillon a small deal like that. I hope they can throw Rabb + maybe other source of picks to get it done.

 

MC/Mack/Carter

Oubre/Temple

SlowMo/Dillon/Yuta

JJJ/Jam/Casspi/DJ/Parsons

Gasol/Noah

 

A rotation of Oubre/Temple/SlowMo/Dillon would be enought to compete in the Playoffs and Oubre/Dillon would be a good duo to have near 3Js in the future.

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