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43 minutes ago, Allen said:

Please no more trying to patch together mediocre playoff teams. No trading picks and no acquiring big long term  contracts of players who aren’t going to move the needle. Every move we make should be a move geared towards building around JJJ

Bingo!

McDermott and Troy Daniels - No thanks.    We need a scorer AKA a guy that can handle the ball and create his own shot within the flow of the offense.    Not spot up shooters.   That's why i have been pushing for Hardaway and even suggested Afflalo off the scrap heap.   They have proven ability to do those things.    If we can't make a move for THJ then i am cool with not making a move and seeing if we can develop some guys to fit that role (Dillon or Marshon).  

2 hours ago, JWill4L said:

Ntilikina has disappeared from the Knicks rotation. I don't think New York would need some kind of haul to let him go.

Selden, Rabb and the less favorable 2022 Detroit/Chicago pick we own kinda works. Fizdale gets two players he knows and a low second round pick. It won't take much more than that to get Frank IMHO.

Yes i would jump on that.   Frank is simply a talent grab.   I don't see Jevon being the PG to ultimately replace Mike.  IMHO he seems to be destined to be the high-energy backup.  Frank could be developed into Conley replacement and even share the backcourt with him till he is ready due to his size (6'6').   If I was FO that is the move i am pushing to make.   

 

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9 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

I was just thinking the other day how valuable 2013-14 Mike Miller would be on this team lol

LOL 

Heck in today's NBA Josh Selby and Jerryd Bayless would be way more valuable off the bench.  Heck even a healthy Tony Wroten would be better than Selden and Mack.   Some dudes came into league in wrong era. 

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25 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

LOL 

Heck in today's NBA Josh Selby and Jerryd Bayless would be way more valuable off the bench.  Heck even a healthy Tony Wroten would be better than Selden and Mack.   Some dudes came into league in wrong era. 

You smoking? 

Selby and Wroten are still young and still suck. Bayless has a very good career. 

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5 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

You smoking? 

Selby and Wroten are still young and still suck. Bayless has a very good career. 

LOL i didn't say they would be good.   I gave the critieria of being more valuable than Wayne Selden.   

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

LOL i didn't say they would be good.   I gave the critieria of being more valuable than Wayne Selden.   

Still wrong.

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4 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Still wrong.

As scorers? for this team.   Cmon man go back and watch the tape.  Both Wroten and Selby can create off the bounce better than Selden.  Wroten (before injury) could get to the rim at Tyreke levels.     He also was a good on ball defender of PG's.   Wayne is bigger but he wasn't that much more athletic or explosive than Wroten.   

You may have an argument with Selby but Wroten was more talented than Selden and had skills we currently need. 

 

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That doesn't make them NBA players,  though lol.

Some guys can score, but it doesn't translate to being consistently productive on a NBA team. Think about the empty stat year Wroten had with Philly at 21 years old and still couldn't find a spot on another team. Something just isn't right. Not to mention at how inefficient he was .

If we want to talk about putting up points on a bad team, Selden can do that. Selden just has a hard time fitting into a role on a good team. We've seen what he's capable of in summer league as a scoring guard. That's just not who he is in the NBA, though. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

That doesn't make them NBA players,  though lol.

Some guys can score, but it doesn't translate to being consistently productive on a NBA team. Think about the empty stat year Wroten had with Philly at 21 years old and still couldn't find a spot on another team. Something just isn't right. Not to mention at how inefficient he was .

If we want to talk about putting up points on a bad team, Selden can do that. Selden just has a hard time fitting into a role on a good team. We've seen what he's capable of in summer league as a scoring guard. That's just not who he is in the NBA, though. 

 

 

Yea Wroten killed summer league and still put up stats in actual NBA games.    Keep in mind the argument.  I am saying they (mostly Wroten) would be better fit for us over Selden (who isn't even in rotation).      I don't see how it can't be sign that a dude that was drafted in first rd (and had an actual NBA career) is more talented than an undrafted guy (that isn't in rotation on a team desp for wings).  

Wroten can pass and slash.  We have one guy on roster that can beat his man off dribble to get to rim and that's Mike.   So what Wroten did is more valuable to our team today than what Selden does.   Heck i think Yuta and DJ offer more than Selden does at this point.  In other words may statements are more about Selden than they are the other players themselves. 

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yea Wroten killed summer league and still put up stats in actual NBA games.    Keep in mind the argument.  I am saying they (mostly Wroten) would be better fit for us over Selden (who isn't even in rotation).      I don't see how it can't be sign that a dude that was drafted in first rd (and had an actual NBA career) is more talented than an undrafted guy (that isn't in rotation on a team desp for wings).  

Wroten can pass and slash.  We have one guy on roster that can beat his man off dribble to get to rim and that's Mike.   So what Wroten did is more valuable to our team today than what Selden does.   Heck i think Yuta and DJ offer more than Selden does at this point.  In other words may statements are more about Selden than they are the other players themselves. 

Are you really putting up numbers in the NBA when you're scoring 17ppg on 14.5 shots, have an excessive turnover rate, one of the lowest offensive ratings in the league and below average TS%? Not to mention doing this on an 18 and 19 win team. So, not only did he have every opportunity to put up numbers on a bad team, he was really bad at doing it lmao.

This isn't a Kevin Love situation where he was actually good at basketball and played on a bad team. He simply bad at basketball and benefited from having a sky high usage rate on a terrible team. 

If your issue is Selden needs to be replaced, that's fine. I agree with that. I would definitely like to give Watanabe a try and see how he performs. I do think all of these issues with our bench will be fixed once Dillon returns, though. So that's why I'm not TOO  concerned. Rolling with Mack / Dillon / Casspi / JAM / Noah would be fine until the deadline IMO. But, trying to convince us Tony Wroten had some sort of value is another thing. He wasn't good. I also don't agree that he was better than Selden. There are several 2nd round guys who are better NBA players than 1st round talent.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because we are talking about a guy who's not even in the NBA after 3 or 4 seasons vs. a guy currently on a NBA roster and I'm pretty positive people were loving him in the first 10 games of the season before his shooting fizzled out. Selden was shooting the ball well, playing solid defense and played his role really well. Then, he fizzled out mid-November and on. 

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6 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

Are you really putting up numbers in the NBA when you're scoring 17ppg on 14.5 shots, have an excessive turnover rate, one of the lowest offensive ratings in the league and below average TS%? Not to mention doing this on an 18 and 19 win team. So, not only did he have every opportunity to put up numbers on a bad team, he was really bad at doing it lmao.

This isn't a Kevin Love situation where he was actually good at basketball and played on a bad team. He simply bad at basketball and benefited from having a sky high usage rate on a terrible team. 

If your issue is Selden needs to be replaced, that's fine. I agree with that. I would definitely like to give Watanabe a try and see how he performs. I do think all of these issues with our bench will be fixed once Dillon returns, though. So that's why I'm not TOO  concerned. Rolling with Mack / Dillon / Casspi / JAM / Noah would be fine until the deadline IMO. But, trying to convince us Tony Wroten had some sort of value is another thing. He wasn't good. I also don't agree that he was better than Selden. There are several 2nd round guys who are better NBA players than 1st round talent.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because we are talking about a guy who's not even in the NBA after 3 or 4 seasons vs. a guy currently on a NBA roster and I'm pretty positive people were loving him in the first 10 games of the season before his shooting fizzled out. Selden was shooting the ball well, playing solid defense and played his role really well. Then, he fizzled out mid-November and on. 

true this is just a slow news day so im going to war for guys i can give two craps about LMAO.    However,  Selden net rating is at Andrew Harrison levels in the advanced metrics.   He is/has been terrible.   He gets a pass because he "looks" the part but his play doesn't translate.    So i still believe Wroten was a better player.   Selden didn't even produce much on last years turd of a team.    Remember i am saying fit, Wroten could get to the rim off the bounce at near elite level.    That is what makes him more valuable for this team over Selden's non-defense and double digit negative Netrating.   

Its same argument i make for putting in Jevon over Shelvin.   I dont think Jevon is a better PG than Mack - i do think Jevon's skill of dogged defense and more aggressive scorer would be a better fit for our team right now.  

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25 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

true this is just a slow news day so im going to war for guys i can give two craps about LMAO.    However,  Selden net rating is at Andrew Harrison levels in the advanced metrics.   He is/has been terrible.   He gets a pass because he "looks" the part but his play doesn't translate.    So i still believe Wroten was a better player.   Selden didn't even produce much on last years turd of a team.    Remember i am saying fit, Wroten could get to the rim off the bounce at near elite level.    That is what makes him more valuable for this team over Selden's non-defense and double digit negative Netrating.   

Its same argument i make for putting in Jevon over Shelvin.   I dont think Jevon is a better PG than Mack - i do think Jevon's skill of dogged defense and more aggressive scorer would be a better fit for our team right now.  

Definitely a slow news day lol.

On the Jevon > Shelvin front, I think we need to find a way to get Jevon some time soon. He has the potential to make a huge impact in a playoff game just based off his energy and defense IMO. Think of Bledsoe first playoff series with the Clippers. I'm starting to come around to the idea of even playing both Carter / Mack at times. That backup 2 spot is so sporadic and I'm really not a fan of Marshon being the answer this year, I would rather give the opportunity to a younger guy. 

I know we are fighting for as many wins now to solidify a playoff spot later down the line, but I do think there are opportunities out there for Jevon to play. Seems like the only way its going to happen though is by injury unfortunately. Bickerstaff just isn't creative enough as a coach. 

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11 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

Definitely a slow news day lol.

On the Jevon > Shelvin front, I think we need to find a way to get Jevon some time soon. He has the potential to make a huge impact in a playoff game just based off his energy and defense IMO. Think of Bledsoe first playoff series with the Clippers. I'm starting to come around to the idea of even playing both Carter / Mack at times. That backup 2 spot is so sporadic and I'm really not a fan of Marshon being the answer this year, I would rather give the opportunity to a younger guy. 

I know we are fighting for as many wins now to solidify a playoff spot later down the line, but I do think there are opportunities out there for Jevon to play. Seems like the only way its going to happen though is by injury unfortunately. Bickerstaff just isn't creative enough as a coach. 

Carters offense sucks though. Bledsoe did too but he could make acrobatic finishes. Carter on the other hand is a Derek Fisher level finisher around the basket.  I saw him get blocked at the rim a lot in college with weak finishes.  He will be an offensive liability imo.

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Yep Jevon needs to be given a spot but like Dwash says i am not keen on his scoring ability in the paint in the league.   Which is why i am willing to give marshon more time.

   I know alot of ppl aren't fans of his but he has been improving in his role.   I think some fans don't really understand what a bench scorer is supposed to do.   His job is to be a iso-chucker for 2nd unit and we paid him vet min so it isn't like he should be in the 50/40/90 club.   My initial issue with him was he was making bad passes and bad on defense.   He has cleaned both of those things up (he figured out its hard to make bad passes if you don't pass lol).  

If the second unit is comprised of a bunch of dudes better on defense that aren't really offensive players than it makes sense to have one guy that is an iso-chucker leading it.   Jevon + Marshon + Omri + Jam + Noah.   Who should he be passing it to??  

I think Marshon should stay in rotation.  

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Jevon needs to be playing, as Mack has struggled mightily these last few games. Even if it just serves as a wake up call, or even if you play them together as Mack spends a lot of time at SG with Mike and the Point anyway. We have to give him so time. I don't think Selden is healthy (knee again), so that could be contributing to his defensive problems and his shooting problems. I think we all agree he looks the part of a good NBA player, and has shown he can be good at times, but at some point he has to start doing it consistently or he won't be on a team much longer. 

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4 hours ago, BHZMAFIA said:

I was just thinking the other day how valuable 2013-14 Mike Miller would be on this team lol

Me too. That's what got me thinking about McDermott.

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2 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Me too. That's what got me thinking about McDermott.

I wouldn't want to give that much up for McDermott, he's a rotation player, so they aren't going to part with him too easily. 

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For Frank, I doubt it would take that much. He's got 3 DNP CDs in a row now. Whoever said Rabb, Selden, and a 2nd is probably right. They just want space for next summer. Selden is expiring, Rabb is cheaper than Frank's contact. That would work. We have a good staff for development, it's time we put them to use. 

As far as trades, I do think we hit up Phoenix. 

There's a couple of different routes we could take. 

Parsons + Selden + a Pick or two for Ryan Anderson + Josh Jackson. 

OR

Parsons for Anderson + Troy Daniels or Jamal Crawford. 

Why we would do it: Anderson is at least healthy enough to play and maybe gives us some spot minutes off the bench. We either get some wing help, or a nice developmental piece to build around. PLUS Anderson is only guaranteed 15 million next year compared to Parsons 25 million and we could waive and stretch that for 5 million a year for 3 years which isn't bad at all.

Why would Phoenix do it: Anderson isn't playing anyway. The probably won't waive him (or not waive and stretch him) to keep all the flexibility they want going forward. Same principle applies for Parsons. Plus they could get some pick out of it. Also Josh Jackson has been beaten out by Warren (though we plays PF mainly) Ariza and Bridges. No sense keeping him there at this point, and he would be better served getting a fresh start somewhere else where he could get more time. 

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So Keith Smith at Yahoo Sports thinks we need to blow it up right now.

here

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6 minutes ago, TimBC said:

So Keith Smith at Yahoo Sports thinks we need to blow it up right now.

here

He makes some very good points, but the F.O. will never do it. That's why we throw up these crazy trade ideas on this thread.

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8 minutes ago, TimBC said:

So Keith Smith at Yahoo Sports thinks we need to blow it up right now.

here

 

Quote

 

Memphis Grizzlies

$2.7 million under luxury tax for 2018-19, $29 million over the cap for 2019-20

If you think it’s questionable to suggest the Pistons should blow it up, you’ll think it is downright crazy to suggest the Grizzlies do the same. After injuries wrecked last season, Memphis has bounced back to start this year. They are 14-9 and firmly in the playoff picture in a deep Western Conference.

So what gives? The threat of injury ruining their season looms larger for the Grizzlies than just about any other team. They’ve already seen JaMychal Green and Chandler Parsons miss considerable time this season. If they were to lose Mike Conley or Marc Gasol again, the season would be over.

For a few years running, the Grizzlies have danced around the luxury-tax line. Avoiding it entirely next year is probably impossible. If Gasol opts out, they’d have to re-sign him to a bigger number. And a host of currently cheap role players would hit free agency as well. That would push them over the luxury-tax line.

But that’s only part of the story. Let’s say Memphis does stay healthy, what is its ceiling? Probably a short playoff appearance, at best. Unless Jaren Jackson Jr., who looks awesome, becomes an All-Star quicker than expected, there just isn’t much upside on this roster. Jackson and role-playing wing Dillon Brooks are the only young talents to get excited about.

Like the Hornets, if the Grizzlies start to fall out of the playoff race, they have to consider trading their beloved players. Conley and Gasol could both fetch premium assets to rebuild around. Role players such as Green and Garrett Temple could return small assets as well. Pair a couple of young talents or draft picks with Jackson, and you’ve all of a sudden got some rebuilding pieces.

It would be a tough pill to swallow for Memphis fans, but if they want to be relevant beyond a short playoff stay, it’s a necessary step. Otherwise, the Grizzlies run the risk of locking into a roster with limited upside. Doing so would jeopardize Jackson’s considerable potential, and that should be avoided at all costs.

 

Where does one start to tear this apart. So many juicy fallacies. So in no particular order:

  1. Why would Gasol's opt out number necessarily go up? I would assume the Grizzlies could resign him for less money and more years at his age. What other team would pay him more than that? 
  2. Does the injury risk to Gasol and Conley impact the Grizzlies anymore than the risk to the Rockets with Harden and Paul going down? Any more than Curry and Durant? Conley and Gasol have able bodied backups for the first time ever and appear relatively healthy (especially Conley). 
  3. Jackson (future all-star) and Dillon are very exciting young players, Anderson is a niche player that fills a need on the team, Conley and Gasol aren't retiring. How many teams have three players who contribute as much as these players do while under the age of 24? 
  4. The Grizzlies Front Office isn't going to accept throwing this season down the drain, especially considering their early season success makes a bottom 8 pick nearly impossible considering they don't have this year's draft pick if it falls outside the top 8. Tanking this season would require significant draft picks and young talent to justify the move. 

I'm sure I have skipped over a few other criticisms but I want to leave something for the rest of the board to discuss as well. 

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10 minutes ago, TimBC said:

So Keith Smith at Yahoo Sports thinks we need to blow it up right now.

here

I doubt he even watches the grizzlies. Plus, Curry and Draymond have already been hurt. So has Harden and paul. Both are well over the luxury tax. But neither team are on the list. It's just a fundamental disrespect of small market teams as well as Mike and Marc as a whole.

I don't give it any thought. I'd rather hear what Fanboyslim says about our cap issue than this guy.

 

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