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Thomas

Grizzlies Give Hollins Permission To Interview With Other Teams

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It feels like this new FO is just trying to put their imprint on this franchise in the worse possible way. You can't expect a coach with a proven track record, to change a his "philosophical views" to appease some nerdy ESPN kid who has never worked in an NBA FO. Lionel has coached through adversity throughout his entire tenure with the Grizzles. Coaching through losing his best player(s) three straight seasons, mid-season roster shakeups, and a weak bench for numerous years in a row. Not to mention having to deal with a new management regime coming in wanting him to bend over and take it.

 

I can only imagine how LH feels. Leading this team to the best season ever. EVER!?! And you're asked to abandon your principles to jump on board with some new "analytical mathematical movement" BS. Lionel coached up to this point without all that arbitrary non-sense. Analytics certainly has its place in the game. But it's going a bit too far when it starts to play a major part in your coaching decisions.

 

As a few others have stated. Something doesn't feel right about this new FO. I hope I'm proven wrong this fall and I have to eat crow. But until then, I don't trust these rookies.

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I guess I have been gone from the message boards too long.

 

I must be mistaken that we just came off our first visit to the WCF. That's the time to tweak, not blow up.

 

The one thing I was concerned about with the new regime is that they would be a bunch of mad tinkerers. And now they just need to kick out any dissenting voices out of the sandbox so they can build their sandcastles. And sandcastles have a habit of falling apart easily.

 

I was in 100% agreement with trading Rudy both for his lack of cohesion with the rest of the team and his production/salary ratio. The first bench trade, wasn't a big fan of, the Rudy trade took care of that. This is a good bench - not a great bench, but a good one. Better than we've had in a while. But benches turn over the the NBA, it's just part of the reality.

 

The Rudy Gay trade worked because Rudy didn't belong in the system we were playing, period. The system. Which is now anathema.

 

Until the WCF, where we were masterfully carved by a San Antonio team with great focus, a great scheme, and yes, better talent, we were playing, to a man, within our system, and doing what we do, and winning. Dissapointed to lose, to be swept by the Spurs, of course, but not ashamed.

 

Understand, what this means. This is going to be a complete dismantling. If you loved this team for what it was, you're going to have to swallow hard and hope that the new guard has any "soul" to it at all. Who remains? If we read the tea leaves, and Conley and Gasol are the only untouchables, do you think they sign the next contract? Conley, possibly - I'd put it at less than 50%. Gasol, I just don't see it - even if he becomes the "star" of the new guard who gets to have input with the front office.

 

I'd much rather see this team - this beautifully ugly team - go at it for 2 more years and end deep playoff runs, than to see Johnny playing with his new lego set for 5 years and wind up with a 15 man basketball automaton. Make no mistake - this playoff run was big for a number of reasons. And Memphians, famous for having a chip on their shoulder, should know that this Grizzlies team had a big part of the country rooting for it, and rooting for the city with which it was so closely identified by writer after writer.

 

Have I had my problems with Hollins? Sure. But as they say (a lot), winning cures all ills. And he had this team winning. This team took on his identity, his personality, warts and all. And they won. Don't tell me that any coach could have done the same thing with this talent. It is a crap shoot from here. Moves can work - but they just as often (if not more often) blow up in the faces of the organization.

 

Grit n' Grind was owned by this town. It was organic. it grew a living bond between fan base and team. A marriage if you will. Now get ready for the divorce. The fans = the jilted lover who fell for the smoke and mirrors, the hope that the shiny young rich suitor brought with him.

 

Get ready for Slip n' Slide.

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I can't remember if I read it on this board or not but I remember hearing something about Hollinger was trying to telll Hollins which lineups to use based on his analytics. That's crazy and crossing the line. If Hollinger's analytics are so spot on, why not let him coach using plus/minus and run a formula for each play on the court. I'm pretty sure we would go about 10-72

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an NBA team that doesn't run an offense is never going to make it to the Promised Land.

 

I will say that this is definitely one of Hollins' weaknesses. I will be curious to see what he can do in NJ (not expecting much).

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I can't remember if I read it on this board or not but I remember hearing something about Hollinger was trying to telll Hollins which lineups to use based on his analytics. That's crazy and crossing the line. If Hollinger's analytics are so spot on, why not let him coach using plus/minus and run a formula for each play on the court. I'm pretty sure we would go about 10-72

it wasn't Hollinger, it was some assistant coach from last year. The guy gave him some stats about lineups and Hollins got po'd at him and said something stupid like "Why don't you coach the team then."

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Failing to develop Gay and Mayo was inexcusable

 

From what Ive seen with both Gay & Mayo, No one was going to develop them beyond where they are today. I sure hope this new kid knows what he is doing cause he ain't going to get any top flight coach until they hit the bottom. Why should you take over someone else's team that just got fired after taking his team to the conference finals? It makes NO since. If you take them to the next higher step to the top, it was because the other guy got them there and you just finished his job. If they take the next logical step down & don't make the conference finals, you aren't as good as the old guy. It's the old no - win situation. Only a new guy will take it for less than $25M.

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If you're green, you're growing.

If you're ripe, you're rotting.

 

Time for this team to grow without "ripe" getting in the way of getting to the next level.

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I guess I have been gone from the message boards too long. I must be mistaken that we just came off our first visit to the WCF. That's the time to tweak, not blow up. The one thing I was concerned about with the new regime is that they would be a bunch of mad tinkerers. And now they just need to kick out any dissenting voices out of the sandbox so they can build their sandcastles. And sandcastles have a habit of falling apart easily. I was in 100% agreement with trading Rudy both for his lack of cohesion with the rest of the team and his production/salary ratio. The first bench trade, wasn't a big fan of, the Rudy trade took care of that. This is a good bench - not a great bench, but a good one. Better than we've had in a while. But benches turn over the the NBA, it's just part of the reality. The Rudy Gay trade worked because Rudy didn't belong in the system we were playing, period. The system. Which is now anathema. Until the WCF, where we were masterfully carved by a San Antonio team with great focus, a great scheme, and yes, better talent, we were playing, to a man, within our system, and doing what we do, and winning. Dissapointed to lose, to be swept by the Spurs, of course, but not ashamed. Understand, what this means. This is going to be a complete dismantling. If you loved this team for what it was, you're going to have to swallow hard and hope that the new guard has any "soul" to it at all. Who remains? If we read the tea leaves, and Conley and Gasol are the only untouchables, do you think they sign the next contract? Conley, possibly - I'd put it at less than 50%. Gasol, I just don't see it - even if he becomes the "star" of the new guard who gets to have input with the front office. I'd much rather see this team - this beautifully ugly team - go at it for 2 more years and end deep playoff runs, than to see Johnny playing with his new lego set for 5 years and wind up with a 15 man basketball automaton. Make no mistake - this playoff run was big for a number of reasons. And Memphians, famous for having a chip on their shoulder, should know that this Grizzlies team had a big part of the country rooting for it, and rooting for the city with which it was so closely identified by writer after writer. Have I had my problems with Hollins? Sure. But as they say (a lot), winning cures all ills. And he had this team winning. This team took on his identity, his personality, warts and all. And they won. Don't tell me that any coach could have done the same thing with this talent. It is a crap shoot from here. Moves can work - but they just as often (if not more often) blow up in the faces of the organization. Grit n' Grind was owned by this town. It was organic. it grew a living bond between fan base and team. A marriage if you will. Now get ready for the divorce. The fans = the jilted lover who fell for the smoke and mirrors, the hope that the shiny young rich suitor brought with him. Get ready for Slip n' Slide.

 

Great post.

 

Definitely leaves me a little uneasy.

 

Guess only time will tell...

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From what Ive seen with both Gay & Mayo, No one was going to develop them beyond where they are today. I sure hope this new kid knows what he is doing cause he ain't going to get any top flight coach until they hit the bottom. Why should you take over someone else's team that just got fired after taking his team to the conference finals? It makes NO since. If you take them to the next higher step to the top, it was because the other guy got them there and you just finished his job. If they take the next logical step down & don't make the conference finals, you aren't as good as the old guy. It's the old no - win situation. Only a new guy will take it for less than $25M.

 

 

From Wage of Wins:

 

Take heart Memphis: three of the last four teams swept in the conference finals (LA in 98, Spurs in 01 and Pistons in 03) won the title within two seasons (two even changed coaches after getting swept).

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Lol, good point. Hollins was putting us on a road to failure. The revolving door we've had with rookies has been crazy. It's hurt our future. He basically developed Mike/Marc and said that was enough.

 

Every coach, no matter the sport, is putting the team on the road to failure. Since there is only winner each yr, 31 of them failed & one didn't. Even Walt Alston Had his failed yrs. in LA.

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I'm good with LH leaving. This team got to the WCF despite LH and lost because of his inability to make adjustments.

 

Anybody could run down a list of the talented players that have played under LH and left for one reason or another.

 

Joerger designed the defense and that's all this team has, a defense. Now hopefully, he will be the coach and hire an assistant coach who can design an offense that works. I'm of course assuming he's the new guy. Makes no sense to bring in anybody else.

 

But, the summer is far from over and we'll just have to see what players the new coach has to work with.

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How are you supposed to know if a player's good or not if you never play them? It became an obvious trend in Lionel's book: if you're a rookie, you don't play. Period. That's why talent with a LOT of potential (Wroten) sat on the bench all year while a "veteran" (Dooling) was allowed to stink it up on the floor. It's a coaching bias that has seriously stunted this team's development, IMO.
Unless you are a development coach, YOU ARE PAID TO WINNNNNNNNN not develop players & if you don't win you go bye - bye.

 

BY the way, the new owner is also being paid(by the fans) to win & if he don't win there will be no butts in the seats.

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Only an extremely arrogant person would take over a team that another person spent 5 years building into a defensive juggernaut and consistently increased winning percentage every year and say, eh we can do better.

 

The reason some on this board like it is because the front office is running the team like they are a regular fan of the team instead of a multimillion dollar conglomeration. They fire people at will, and use "formulas" to devise a team.

 

I'd imagine that LH is beyond furious at this point. This front office inherited a well-coached, seasoned team who have made their mark on the nba, and they say, yeah we don't care about that crap, we got a plan. Again, this team is run by a bunch of social idiots that don't realize the damage they are doing to the brand until they run it into the ground and NO FREE AGENT GIVES THEM THE TIME OF DAY.

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Only an extremely arrogant person would take over a team that another person spent 5 years building into a defensive juggernaut and consistently increased winning percentage every year and say, eh we can do better. The reason some on this board like it is because the front office is running the team like they are a regular fan of the team instead of a multimillion dollar conglomeration. They fire people at will, and use "formulas" to devise a team. I'd imagine that LH is beyond furious at this point. This front office inherited a well-coached, seasoned team who have made their mark on the nba, and they say, yeah we don't care about that crap, we got a plan. Again, this team is run by a bunch of social idiots that don't realize the damage they are doing to the brand until they run it into the ground and NO FREE AGENT GIVES THEM THE TIME OF DAY.

 

You pretty much described the logic behind the Rudy trade, which turned out so badly.

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Seems like Lionel had a little confrontation with Hollinger at practice during the playoffs:

 

I would have probably shot a puck at him if a FO person marched out onto my ice during practice!!! There is a time for FO stuff & it ain't on the court during practice. If that is the the way that the new FO is going to run things, this team will go straight to hell & they will NOT be able to find a coach for more than one yr. unless they find a "developmental" one to make players for other teams.

 

When I read that quote, I went off like a VOLCANO. That is just about the BIGGEST NO NO that admin people can do.

 

LH run as fast as you can anywhere you can but get away from these idiots.

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Only an extremely arrogant person would take over a team that another person spent 5 years building into a defensive juggernaut and consistently increased winning percentage every year and say, eh we can do better. The reason some on this board like it is because the front office is running the team like they are a regular fan of the team instead of a multimillion dollar conglomeration. They fire people at will, and use "formulas" to devise a team. I'd imagine that LH is beyond furious at this point. This front office inherited a well-coached, seasoned team who have made their mark on the nba, and they say, yeah we don't care about that crap, we got a plan. Again, this team is run by a bunch of social idiots that don't realize the damage they are doing to the brand until they run it into the ground and NO FREE AGENT GIVES THEM THE TIME OF DAY.

 

And regarding your point about free agents, when was the last time the Spurs signed a major free agent? I guess FO screwed up their market too!

(FYI, free agents never sign with small market teams like MEM, SAS, IND, etc)

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I think having synergy between the front office and the head coach is really important. I'm sure Pop and R.C. Buford have disagreements. You're going to disagree about a number of things, but they probably have a very similar philosophy on how to run a team, develop players. and win. Lionel and Hollinger probably don't. I think it is probably best that Lionel is leaving. I'm a big believer in the analytics movement, and, if Lionel couldn't get on board with that, I think they had to let him go. Having your coach constantly at odds with the front office sounds dysfunctional when the problems seem this severe.

 

I gar-on-tee the FO would never walk out on his floor!

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I can't remember if I read it on this board or not but I remember hearing something about Hollinger was trying to telll Hollins which lineups to use based on his analytics. That's crazy and crossing the line. If Hollinger's analytics are so spot on, why not let him coach using plus/minus and run a formula for each play on the court. I'm pretty sure we would go about 10-72

 

I think that was Aaron Barzilai who was a stats consultant hired by Chris Wallace.

 

Why wouldnt you want extra information, outside of your gut feeling, to help you make informed decisions? Don't see how that's crazy or crossing the line. I'm sure most coaches would at least like to be aware of what the statistics say, but Hollins was almost offended that Barzilai emailed him lineups. That was his job haha.

 

 

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I gar-on-tee the FO would never walk out on his floor!

 

You do realize owners and general managers do from time to time watch their teams practice, right? Lionel, like usual, was just trying to assert his authority. He's too territorial.

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Accorng to ESPN: Man, Hollins really is like public enemy #1 inside the organization. It seems like only person that doesn't hate him is Conley and that's probably because Lionel has treated him like his own kid from day 1.

 

I'll tell you who else doesn't hate him, JBay & most of all of the players on the team. They may get mad & want more PT but they KNOW he knows what he is doing.

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It's his way or the highway, but he's not in control. You pretty much saw this coming from a mile away as soon as the new ownership came in. I will say this. there is something about this new group that I just don't like. I can't put my finger on it if it's Levien or Hollinger or what, I get the feeling they are slimy and won't be upfront with people. Pretty much like you said, a bunch of pissants.

As soon as attendance goes down, they'll be crying that they can't survive in this LITTLE town and away they'll go!!!!

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it wasn't Hollinger, it was some assistant coach from last year. The guy gave him some stats about lineups and Hollins got po'd at him and said something stupid like "Why don't you coach the team then."
I think that was Aaron Barzilai who was a stats consultant hired by Chris Wallace. Why wouldnt you want extra information, outside of your gut feeling, to help you make informed decisions? Don't see how that's crazy or crossing the line. I'm sure most coaches would at least like to be aware of what the statistics say, but Hollins was almost offended that Barzilai emailed him lineups. That was his job haha.

 

Well my apologies to Hollinger. I had the wrong person.

 

Anyway, I have zero problem with information. I've been working with data and fact-based decisions before the word "analytics" became cool in the sports world. My point is, there is a line between the front office and the coaching staff. Let the coach do what he feels is best. That's why you hired him. It doesn't sound like that other stats guy is still with the team so it sounded like a poor hire by Wallace. It's one thing to be on the same page with your coach but it's another thing to try to force an ideology on him by hiring some new guy when it's obvious the coach could care less.

 

Once again, I am in no way trying to defend Hollins because I feel he has crossed the lines at times as well. It's more an indictment on both sides and a conclusion that they probably do not need to work together any longer.

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As soon as attendance goes down, they'll be crying that they can't survive in this LITTLE town and away they'll go!!!!

 

Just like attendance went down after the Rudy trade. Oh, wait...

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