Sign in to follow this  
Kevin B Moses

Keeping this group together and developing them (or the faster you make a decision the better off you are)

Recommended Posts

In my previous thread, which got deleted (not sure why) I hinted at the idea that the grizzlies should consider drafting Bamba with an eye toward pairing him with Ivan Rabb. What I didn't think about at the time but what I was about to post before my thread got blasted was this idea I have about quick decision making vs the super star mentality, what do I mean by that and how does that apply.

Let me give you an example: Ivan Rabb/ Marvin Bagley Jr. Conventional wisdom says that the grizzlies should draft Bagley if given the chance because he could be a superstar and that Rabb, because of various reasons, is nothing more than a placeholder until we find a superstar, or something better.

What if we said: Rabb is our pf of the future and we are going to build around him, that he is an untouchable player. How would that benefit the grizzlies? For one declaring Rabb as a foundation pieces means that you spend time developing him. What you are doing is that you are saying I can take Rabb's current skills and I can MAKE him into a better rebounding Bagley, so I don't need Bagely.

Where this gets power is this: we all know that team chemistry is extremely important. If the grizzlies made a QUICK decision as opposed to stabbing at talent, they could say here is our team of the future, you, you and you, now lets make them into a team. Let's just say for giggles this is our core: 

Andrew Harrison, Dillion Brooks, Rabb and Bamba. If the grizzlies decided we are going to make them our team of the future, if gives you a let up in chemistry, and it gives you a focus:, the focus is that if you tell a coach, these are the players you have to win with, design a scheme to take advantage of them, don't tell me what Rabb can't do, show me what he can do.

It's really a way to zero in on what is important, which is style of play and chemistry. I think as I said that given development Harrison can be a top 10 pg in this league. I think Rabb can be a better rebounding Bagley. Brooks and to a lesser extend Martin are great fast break players, and at least with Dillion, he is smart and plays the right way.

You have to look far into the future, but it is my opinion that if you stopped looking for the next best thing that Harrison, Brooks and Rabb could all be top 15 at their position, but they would be even better if they knew that these guys were going to be their running mates for the next 5 years. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brandan Wright told a radio show this morning that he and the Grizzlies were negotiating a buy out. That should mean more minutes for Rabb, especially if the team will stop playing Gasol 37 minutes a night. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

In my previous thread, which got deleted 

That was your best thread ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

What if we said: Rabb is our pf of the future and we are going to build around him, that he is an untouchable player. How would that benefit the grizzlies? For one declaring Rabb as a foundation pieces means that you spend time developing him. What you are doing is that you are saying I can take Rabb's current skills and I can MAKE him into a better rebounding Bagley, so I don't need Bagely.

I see your point here and i also get frustrated with the draft position bias that most fans have.     If Rabb was drafted after his freshman year then he likely would've been a top 10 lottery pick.     By default any team that drafted him would have made preparations to use him as a foundation piece and fully invested in developing him.     I have always believed that opportunity, fit, and patience are bigger factors in a players success or rise than simply talent.    If a young guy has some type of elite tools and great work ethic then i don't care what his draft position was.   

Dillon strikes me as a guy that could potentially become another Jimmy Butler type success.  He has the BBIQ, work ethic and drive to improve his game.   Developing a guy like that will pay dividends and shouldn't be out of the question to include him as a future foundation piece. 

 

58 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Brandan Wright told a radio show this morning that he and the Grizzlies were negotiating a buy out. That should mean more minutes for Rabb, especially if the team will stop playing Gasol 37 minutes a night. 

I hope that is true.   Resting Gasol and playing Brice, Rabb, and Davis more minutes could potentially keep us Top 5 lottery bound. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know the NBA is a win-now league - it's professional and business.

Fans don't want excuses or rationalizations. I get that.

But some of these guys have got to be given at least ONE year and ONE offseason to develop and see where they are before going to the public opinion chopping block.

I've seen flashes from Ivan Rabb. Dude is 19 or 20. Who KNOWS what he can really be - could be average, could be pretty good.

On the other hand, I've seen all I need to from Jarrell Martin. I don't think he's ever going to put it together - though there is STILL a small window IMO.

Having said that, that is still no guarantee that you trade or waive JM that he won't flourish elsewhere.

It's all a crapshoot - how much heart and work ethic and whatever else do some of these guys have and are they in the right system/fit, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I see your point here and i also get frustrated with the draft position bias that most fans have.     If Rabb was drafted after his freshman year then he likely would've been a top 10 lottery pick.     By default any team that drafted him would have made preparations to use him as a foundation piece and fully invested in developing him.     I have always believed that opportunity, fit, and patience are bigger factors in a players success or rise than simply talent.    If a young guy has some type of elite tools and great work ethic then i don't care what his draft position was.   

Dillon strikes me as a guy that could potentially become another Jimmy Butler type success.  He has the BBIQ, work ethic and drive to improve his game.   Developing a guy like that will pay dividends and shouldn't be out of the question to include him as a future foundation piece. 

 

I hope that is true.   Resting Gasol and playing Brice, Rabb, and Davis more minutes could potentially keep us Top 5 lottery bound. 

Would Conley have been half the player he was if he didn't get what he got from Hollins? I say no.

Before Malcom Brogden got hurt, and given my current mindset on this, I would have suggested that we trade a piece like Marc to get him, and I would draft Bamba, and I would suggest that given 3 years that a team built around:

Rabb, Brooks, Harrison, Bamba and Brogden could be a top 10 team in the league with the right coach. In that mix you have players would all play the right way, you got defense for days in that group and high iq guys.

I know that I don't know as much about basketball as even chris wallace, but I am a concept guy and a logical thinker, and I wish that pera and the front office would listen to me, but they won't.

Also, if you think about it the 3yp was similar to what I am suggesting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Would Conley have been half the player he was if he didn't get what he got from Hollins? I say no.

Before Malcom Brogden got hurt, and given my current mindset on this, I would have suggested that we trade a piece like Marc to get him, and I would draft Bamba, and I would suggest that given 3 years that a team built around:

Rabb, Brooks, Harrison, Bamba and Brogden could be a top 10 team in the league with the right coach. In that mix you have players would all play the right way, you got defense for days in that group and high iq guys.

I know that I don't know as much about basketball as even chris wallace, but I am a concept guy and a logical thinker, and I wish that pera and the front office would listen to me, but they won't.

Also, if you think about it the 3yp was similar to what I am suggesting. 

Difference is that 3yp had higher talented lottery guys as the crux of the plan.    I get your theory but in reality  Rudy, OJ, and Mike were more talented than Rabb, Dillon and Selden.    So catch would be we would need as good as or better experienced players leading them as Gasol +Zbo + Tony.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Difference is that 3yp had higher talented lottery guys as the crux of the plan.    I get your theory but in reality  Rudy, OJ, and Mike were more talented than Rabb, Dillon and Selden.    So catch would be we would need as good as or better experienced players leading them as Gasol +Zbo + Tony.   

Maybe so, but I think that the lottery itself wasn't the reason the 3yp worked, but it was a commitment to a style of play and development.

You could look at Phoenix for example.

Plus, Rudy, OJ was pretty much non-factors in the 3yp success. It was Marc (2nd rounder), Tony (low talent) and Zbo (late round pick), only Mike was the truly first round guy that was lottery guy that fit that statement.

The reason the 3yp worked was chemistry over time. And I am hoping that the grizzlies draft their high talent guy in this draft to go with the guys we have. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not convinced Rabb is anything more than an end of the bench filler. Having said that, if we are gonna find out if he has any potential to be more than that, then waive Wright and Green. If it works good, if not, go after a PF in FA.

The money we spent on Green was a waste. We should have let him go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another point:

People going apes### about not moving Reke at the deadline, and some spitting the dummy about not entertaining offers for Marc - we should have moved Green, Wright and McLemore at the least.

We need to move our trash, not the guys who can actually play NBA ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

I'm not convinced Rabb is anything more than an end of the bench filler. Having said that, if we are gonna find out if he has any potential to be more than that, then waive Wright and Green. If it works good, if not, go after a PF in FA.

The money we spent on Green was a waste. We should have let him go.

I think that my main point is that if you invest in Rabb, who has skills, rather than just saying he is a bench warmer, then you can make him into what you want.

The things I like about Rabb are intrinsic: I like that, even at this juncture in his career, he is presenting himself as a guy who wants the ball. Contrast that with Davis who lets the game come to him and is more passive.

It doesn't take much to actually see a player has the demeanor for it.  I knew early on that Harrison will be a very good pg in this league, by the flashes that he has show and his mindset. Same goes for brooks.

All of these guys have a WILL about them that they don't care who's in front of them. I saw that was back when I was a rockets fan with Vernon Maxwell "Mad Max" and Sam Cassell.

The point of this approach is to make quick decisions and not be half in and half out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bump 

Breakdown 

The keepers

  1. Dillon - is a keeper, he has the moxie, IQ and skill to become a high level starter in the league
  2. Harrison -  keep him due to his drive to improve, defensive potential, and inexpensiveness as backup PG
  3. Rabb - still to early to dump him based off his positive offensive production when he actually gets minutes

The bubble

  1. Davis - still see some potential there as a defensive-minded 3rd true Center.   His fate depends on who we draft
  2. Seldon - his health and lack of consistency on defense are a BIG problem but if he is cheap then no reason to dump him
  3. Martin - shows flashes but still too inconsistent.  His fate is tied to our draft pick and Jamychal Green

Don't Care: 

  1. Kobi - too raw right now to worry about his future with the team
  2. Brice - fodder

Should be punted away:

  1. Ben McLemore - his low BBIQ is too much to overcome  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't understand what people are expecting to see from Davis.  I think some of you are expecting too much too fast.  He is likely never going to be a guy who can create his own shot, just like DeAndre Jordan can't create his own shot either, and likely never will be able to.  Neither one of them are useless.

In Jordan's second season in the league his per 36 numbers were 10.6 pts./11.1 reb./0.7 ast./0.5 stl./2.0 blk shooting 60.5% from the field and an atrocious 37.5% from the FT line.

Deyonta Davis' second season per 36 numbers - 14.2 pts./9.7 reb./1.5 ast./0.7 stl./1.7 blk. and is shooting 63.3% from the field and a far better 69.2% from the free throw line.

So from what I can tell most of you would have ditched Jordan since some of you can't see any worth in Davis who has Jordan's numbers beaten in five of the seven categories at the same point in their careers and is close in the other two.  Davis may never equal Jordan during his career, or he may exceed him.  All I'm saying is most of you are too impatient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People only notice offensive improvement 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I just don't understand what people are expecting to see from Davis.  I think some of you are expecting too much too fast.  He is likely never going to be a guy who can create his own shot, just like DeAndre Jordan can't create his own shot either, and likely never will be able to.  Neither one of them are useless.

In Jordan's second season in the league his per 36 numbers were 10.6 pts./11.1 reb./0.7 ast./0.5 stl./2.0 blk shooting 60.5% from the field and an atrocious 37.5% from the FT line.

Deyonta Davis' second season per 36 numbers - 14.2 pts./9.7 reb./1.5 ast./0.7 stl./1.7 blk. and is shooting 63.3% from the field and a far better 69.2% from the free throw line.

So from what I can tell most of you would have ditched Jordan since some of you can't see any worth in Davis who has Jordan's numbers beaten in five of the seven categories at the same point in their careers and is close in the other two.  Davis may never equal Jordan during his career, or he may exceed him.  All I'm saying is most of you are too impatient.

Im sure some hated Jordan too but I mean Jordan is 7'0 260 and jumping out the gym. I think that was worth investing more time in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jordan is 6’10 and was around 240 when he came out of college. Basically the same size as Davis. And Davis is an athlete too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man he aint even close to athletic is Jordan. People just arent going to be as patient with mediocre players with average potential at best like Davis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching his film, and looking beyond his stats, its not difficult to tell why. Jordan is about as rare a physical specimen as youll find, the type that NBA teams have a very difficult time passing up when considering what he develop into down the road. Jordan is a legit 7-footer with a pterodactyl wingspan, outstanding hands, and unbelievable athleticismshowing terrific quickness, incredible explosiveness getting off his feet, running the floor like a deer, and making highlight reel caliber plays at times that few players in the world are able to execute. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeAndre-Jordan-1072/ ©DraftExpress

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this