Kevin B Moses

KBM's draft thoughts and opinions

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, pjoe said:

I've watched a highlight film of Doncic ... sorry guys ... I wasn't that impressed.  He has skills, but nothing seemed easy or fluid.  I like Seldon better personally.

I can understand you guys not watching European basketball but saying a borderline role player is better than the best Euroleague player this season is quite insulting honestly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need pure shooting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JWill4L said:

I can understand you guys not watching European basketball but saying a borderline role player is better than the best Euroleague player this season is quite insulting honestly.

Who was the best Euro last season?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Who was the best Euro last season?

Wow, great question. Im pretty sure Qyntel Woods (36 y/o now) has been deemed a Euro star but I dont know specific competition levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Who was the best Euro last season?

Sergio Llull, who is under contract long term and already rejected a $23.8M/3yr offer from the Rockets three years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, JWill4L said:

I can understand you guys not watching European basketball but saying a borderline role player is better than the best Euroleague player this season is quite insulting honestly.

Seldon is far from a borderline role player. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Wow, great question. Im pretty sure Qyntel Woods (36 y/o now) has been deemed a Euro star but I dont know specific competition levels.

Not every Euro star (and Qyntel Woods isn't one by any definition of the term) has a shot to be an NBA player, let alone become an NBA star.

Which is my point, we watch a lot of basketball and have some criteria to judge who can and cannot take the leap successfully. In fact I'll tell you right away that outside of Doncic the current Euro outlook for NBA prospects is pretty bleak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Not every Euro star (and Qyntel Woods isn't one by any definition of the term) has a shot to be an NBA player, let alone become an NBA star.

Which is my point, we watch a lot of basketball and have some criteria to judge who can and cannot take the leap successfully. In fact I'll tell you right away that outside of Doncic the current Euro outlook for NBA prospects is pretty bleak.

http://stepienrules.com/2010-articles/qw426.html

Says Qyntel was one of the best and Euroleague forward of the year in 2010. Im sure he is in the twlight of his career now but I had heard many times that he was highly regarded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Not every Euro star (and Qyntel Woods isn't one by any definition of the term) has a shot to be an NBA player, let alone become an NBA star.

Which is my point, we watch a lot of basketball and have some criteria to judge who can and cannot take the leap successfully. In fact I'll tell you right away that outside of Doncic the current Euro outlook for NBA prospects is pretty bleak.

So what you are saying is Doncic is playing against a lot of players with no NBA potential.

I am not saying he will be a bust.  I honestly don't know what to make of him yet. I think he is best used as a PG though in the James Harden mode.  Not sure if he is shifty enough with the ball to pull it off in the NBA though.  And he is not a great 3 point shooter.

I would not be whining and complaining if we took him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

So what you are saying is Doncic is playing against a lot of players with no NBA potential.

So are NCAA prospects, for that matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Unless your name is Kevin B. Moses you shouldn't be saying crap about the OJ Mayo trade.  KBM was literally the only poster who said it was a mistake and everyone else was applauding the deal.

Actually it doesn't matter what people thought at the time, what matters is how it turned out. GM's get graded on actual results. Their entire job is to have the foresight to make a good decision about the future of players. So when they get one wrong (or many), they don't get to say everybody would have done it. Obviously not everyone thought OJ would be better. KBM didn't. Minnesota didn't.

 

14 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Everybody was also in LOVE with Sam Young and he was the only reason that that draft year was going to turn out okay. Everybody was roasting Cwallace for his famous draft promises to demarre carroll, but let's not dip back into history. :)

My guy is Jaren Jackson at this point. Nobody else even sees him as a player on their radar. Let's see who is right on that one. Trea Young will be a bust, and I'm calling it right now.

Wallace doesn't get roasted for drafting Carroll. He gets roasted for giving up on him too easily. Just because you were right about OJ and Love, let's not pretend you got it figured out. If I'm not mistaken, you were leading the Wade Baldwin train.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

So what you are saying is Doncic is playing against a lot of players with no NBA potential.

I am not saying he will be a bust.  I honestly don't know what to make of him yet. I think he is best used as a PG though in the James Harden mode.  Not sure if he is shifty enough with the ball to pull it off in the NBA though.  And he is not a great 3 point shooter.

I would not be whining and complaining if we took him.

This is my main thing about Doncic. I haven't seen him play; I'm not going to anoint him just yet. But he's 19 and playing in a league that is more difficult than the NCAA. On top of that, he is the best player in the league by all accounts. Let's not write him off because he is European, which is what some people want to do. Then they try to disguise it as he is too unathletic. When you counter them with all of the unathletic American guards who are dominating right now, they come back to unathletic European guards don't succeed. It is strictly because he is European. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

Not every Euro star (and Qyntel Woods isn't one by any definition of the term) has a shot to be an NBA player, let alone become an NBA star.

Which is my point, we watch a lot of basketball and have some criteria to judge who can and cannot take the leap successfully. In fact I'll tell you right away that outside of Doncic the current Euro outlook for NBA prospects is pretty bleak.

Yep. Outside of Luka, maybe Musa will be a good NBA prospect. And that's it.

57 minutes ago, Dwash said:

http://stepienrules.com/2010-articles/qw426.html

Says Qyntel was one of the best and Euroleague forward of the year in 2010. Im sure he is in the twlight of his career now but I had heard many times that he was highly regarded.

Qyntel Woods was playing in Poland. That should tell you why he was highly regarded. And why he didn't play for an EuroLeague juggernaut after playing quite poorly with Olympiakos, too.

 

1 hour ago, MemphisX said:

So what you are saying is Doncic is playing against a lot of players with no NBA potential.

He played against actual NBA players in the summer. And he won the tournament, by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is shooting 33% from three on a Euro court......He is not overly fast.  Doesn't jump out of the gym.  Decent sized for a PG but again, not that fast.  I have not seen measurements but it looks like he has alligator arms from watching him.  I am not in love with him as a prospect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Actually it doesn't matter what people thought at the time, what matters is how it turned out. GM's get graded on actual results. Their entire job is to have the foresight to make a good decision about the future of players. So when they get one wrong (or many), they don't get to say everybody would have done it. Obviously not everyone thought OJ would be better. KBM didn't. Minnesota didn't.

 

Wallace doesn't get roasted for drafting Carroll. He gets roasted for giving up on him too easily. Just because you were right about OJ and Love, let's not pretend you got it figured out. If I'm not mistaken, you were leading the Wade Baldwin train.

Actually I changed my opinion on Baldwin and wanted pat McCaw. I didn't mind the Baldwin pick though, I just hated we gave up on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

This is my main thing about Doncic. I haven't seen him play; I'm not going to anoint him just yet. But he's 19 and playing in a league that is more difficult than the NCAA. On top of that, he is the best player in the league by all accounts. Let's not write him off because he is European, which is what some people want to do. Then they try to disguise it as he is too unathletic. When you counter them with all of the unathletic American guards who are dominating right now, they come back to unathletic European guards don't succeed. It is strictly because he is European. 

I cant agree. The athleticism is a turnoff. If he were super athletic and dunking all on people, then folks would be drooling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Actually it doesn't matter what people thought at the time, what matters is how it turned out. GM's get graded on actual results. Their entire job is to have the foresight to make a good decision about the future of players. So when they get one wrong (or many), they don't get to say everybody would have done it. Obviously not everyone thought OJ would be better. KBM didn't. Minnesota didn't.

While it's true that that is how GMs get graded it seems hypocritical for any of us posters to trash Wallace for doing the exact same thing everyone else wanted and were giddy about at that time.  Anyway, I don't have much respect for people who do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, JWill4L said:

I can understand you guys not watching European basketball but saying a borderline role player is better than the best Euroleague player this season is quite insulting honestly.

Please note that I have a high opinion of Seldon ... I think Seldon can be a solid NBA player going forward.  He was given the responsibility of guarding Kawhi in the playoffs a lot of the time without much game experience and did better than I expected (even though Kawhi still dominated).  And he looked like he used that experience to improve in the off-season (although he has been injured).

I haven't seen much of Doncic other than a highlight video.  With the exception of a sweet cross-over step-back 3 that was awesome ... nothing on that highlight film looked smooth, easy, and under-control.  He does play hard and with a lot of confidence though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Dwash said:

I cant agree. The athleticism is a turnoff. If he were super athletic and dunking all on people, then folks would be drooling.

How did that work out for DJ Stephens? Stromile Swift? Joe Alexander? How did not being able to dunk on people work out for Steph Curry? Isaiah Thomas? John Stockton? I put basketball skills as my number one asset. However, athleticism is important. But the ability to dunk on people regularly has always been a horrible way to determine whether a player is good or not.

15 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

While it's true that that is how GMs get graded it seems hypocritical for any of us posters to trash Wallace for doing the exact same thing everyone else wanted and were giddy about at that time.  Anyway, I don't have much respect for people who do that.

So you don't care about the results, just whether people were happy at the time? OK. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

How did that work out for DJ Stephens? Stromile Swift? Joe Alexander? How did not being able to dunk on people work out for Steph Curry? Isaiah Thomas? John Stockton? I put basketball skills as my number one asset. However, athleticism is important. But the ability to dunk on people regularly has always been a horrible way to determine whether a player is good or not.

So you don't care about the results, just whether people were happy at the time? OK. 

Why do you people always find the most extreme examples to respond to anything. Nobody said that you had to be superathletic to be a great player and that this is the only way to succeed. I am responding to your comment that people on the board only dont like him because he is European and they are pretending that it is because he is unathletic.

Were people going crazy over Kyle Anderson videos? He is American or is known as American (maybe he wasnt born here, dont know) and despite his great college stats, everyone here said he isnt athletic.  He isnt European.

So if Doncic was American and unathletic folks would be saying the same thing. If he were European and athletic (with good skills) people would be talking differently. The lack of athleticism does not look good when you are evaluating potential based on youtube videos, especially for a guard. Nothing to do with where he is from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, pjoe said:

Please note that I have a high opinion of Seldon ... I think Seldon can be a solid NBA player going forward.  He was given the responsibility of guarding Kawhi in the playoffs a lot of the time without much game experience and did better than I expected (even though Kawhi still dominated).  And he looked like he used that experience to improve in the off-season (although he has been injured).

I haven't seen much of Doncic other than a highlight video.  With the exception of a sweet cross-over step-back 3 that was awesome ... nothing on that highlight film looked smooth, easy, and under-control.  He does play hard and with a lot of confidence though.

Seldon is a lot better than a lot of people think on this board. The fact that we have him for two years is gravy. 

We lucked out with the way his career started out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dwash said:

Why do you people always find the most extreme examples to respond to anything. Nobody said that you had to be superathletic to be a great player and that this is the only way to succeed. I am responding to your comment that people on the board only dont like him because he is European and they are pretending that it is because he is unathletic.

Were people going crazy over Kyle Anderson videos? He is American or is known as American (maybe he wasnt born here, dont know) and despite his great college stats, everyone here said he isnt athletic.  He isnt European.

So if Doncic was American and unathletic folks would be saying the same thing. If he were European and athletic (with good skills) people would be talking differently. The lack of athleticism does not look good when you are evaluating potential based on youtube videos, especially for a guard. Nothing to do with where he is from.

How are you going to complain about people using extreme examples then use Kyle Anderson? There is unathletic, then twelves layers below that you get to where Kyle Anderson is. But I will work with what you have given me. Kyle Anderson was a very good player in college, third team all american. Not quite the same as being the best player in Europe at age 19 though. Euroleague is more difficult than the NCAA, and Doncic is better there than Anderson was in college. Even though you chose the worst athlete in the history of NBA basketball (may or may not be an exaggeration), Anderson's skill level has turned him into a pretty solid NBA player. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

How are you going to complain about people using extreme examples then use Kyle Anderson? There is unathletic, then twelves layers below that you get to where Kyle Anderson is. But I will work with what you have given me. Kyle Anderson was a very good player in college, third team all american. Not quite the same as being the best player in Europe at age 19 though. Euroleague is more difficult than the NCAA, and Doncic is better there than Anderson was in college. Even though you chose the worst athlete in the history of NBA basketball (may or may not be an exaggeration), Anderson's skill level has turned him into a pretty solid NBA player. 

Yeah and Anderson wasnt in the running for a top 3 pick either. But Im not sure why you think it needs to be quantified whether or not unathletic players can make it.

I am saying that a lack of athletic ability is a legit prospect concern for anyone for who is unathletic(and Doncic happens to be in that category) and not a coverup for disliking European players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/3/2018 at 3:35 AM, grizzgolf said:

We need pure shooting. 

Collin Sexton is pretty versatile as a shooter/slasher/passer.  The kid at Marquette had a 52 point game...

Sexton's 40 point game:

 

 

Howard's 53 pointer -

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now