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Blackwatch

How 'bout a post game?

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After watching the Dubs B-squad beat the Grizz, and if it is true that the Grizz are not trying to tank any seasons while Gasol is still the focal point of the team, then they need to make a move quickly to find some low post scoring (please bring Z-Bo back, he's killing it in Sac-town!) It is painfully obvious that the team is struggling now because teams are packing the paint and daring them to shoot, like they always have. But, the problem this year is that teams aren't packing the paint to stop a low post scoring threat, but to simply take away the drive to the basket, while there is still no consistent outside shooting to make teams pay. The Grizz countered this in the past by putting pressure on the opposing team's inside D and then kicking it out for a slim chance of making teams pay for packing it in. If there was an actual low post threat to keep teams honest (and stop the bleeding when the jumpers inevitably stop falling), the Grizz would probably be a 3-5 seed in the West right now, instead of a bottom feeder.

The only paint scoring threat they have now is Reke driving to the rim. Gasol got stripped at least 4 times last night trying to drive to the basket from the 3 pt line. If Gasol would post up more, rather than camp out on the 3 pt. line, he could put more pressure on the interior D, making it harder to rotate when and if he passes out of the double team. Its obvious that the team doesn't work on low post offense enough. Brevin Knight commented several times last nite that Gasol had an advantage on the post, yet the guards couldn't get him the ball in time to do anything with it. Bad angles, bad spacing, and bad shot clock awareness indicate that the team is not working on a low post offense with any sense of urgency or agency. It appears to be an afterthought, but it is their best weapon (or could be, if they focused on it). Instead, they seem to run high pick and roll, then isos, which is what everybody was saying was the inefficient O that Z-Bo made them run, which , obviously, is not the case. Again, if Gasol had a true center's game, this team would be much better off. Instead, we see Gasol looking like a baby giraffe driving to the rim as slowly and awkwardly as a 7'2"  non-athletic , no handle shooting guard would look.  

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Bruh I just spit my water out on "baby giraffe" lol.

I swear, the next move I would do is to pay Hakeem Olajuwon for some "Big Man" low post scoring coaching over the Christmas "break" and go into 2018 mandating that Gasol be no further than 15 ft. from the rim at all times on O. The moment he comes down the court and stops at the 3 pt. line, I would immediately bench him. Gasol on the outside is as effective as DDavis playing 30 minutes a game. Heck, they are losing anyway with Gasol doing what he is doing, why not try something new?

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24 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

I swear, the next move I would do is to pay Hakeem Olajuwon for some "Big Man" low post scoring coaching over the Christmas "break" and go into 2018 mandating that Gasol be no further than 15 ft. from the rim at all times on O. The moment he comes down the court and stops at the 3 pt. line, I would immediately bench him. Gasol on the outside is as effective as DDavis playing 30 minutes a game. Heck, they are losing anyway with Gasol doing what he is doing, why not try something new?

Hakeem coached Dwight Howard or Amare Stoudemire or somebody like that (cant remember). Didnt do much. Its just not happening at his age.

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8 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Hakeem coached Dwight Howard or Amare Stoudemire or somebody like that (cant remember). Didnt do much. Its just not happening at his age.

I know its a pipe dream, Gasol is what Gasol is at his point. But I just don't think he's anything to build around. I would definitely be shopping him hard right now for some low post scoring and/or draft picks. His game is so complementary that there's no way a team could win with him as the foundation.

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I think players are intentionally not getting it to him. An easy revolt that doesn't look tooo obvious.

I mean these are NBA players. Chalmers isn't some rookie who doesn't know how to post guys up and he looks around like he can't find entry..

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Think of ten reasonably well known power forwards. Not allstars, just regular NBA starters.

Put any one of them in our front line instead of JaM.  Let Marc keep doing what he does. 

How do we GET that PF? I dunno, I've done my part. 

 

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Did Hakeem play the "right" way? I dont see Marc taking pointers from anyone who didnt play the right way

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2 minutes ago, Allen said:

Did Hakeem play the "right" way. I dont see Marc taking pointers from anyone who didnt play the right way

Lol, who did play the right way? Pretty much every legend had some sort of 'selfishness' or basic assertiveness. Even Steve Nash was a little flashy and J Kidd was ultra assertive.  

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3 hours ago, Memfizz said:

I think players are intentionally not getting it to him. An easy revolt that doesn't look tooo obvious.

I mean these are NBA players. Chalmers isn't some rookie who doesn't know how to post guys up and he looks around like he can't find entry..

Noticed this 3 different times during the game last night. One time Reke was on the wing with Gasol at the top of the key open and Andrew Harrison in the corner. He didn't even look at Gasol, just took a dribble toward the basket and threw it to Harrison. Also noticed Chalmers and Brooks not pass it to Gasol when he had a mismatch at some other points...

I could see there being a bit of a locker room rift. Gasol is always yelling at someone after there is a missed rotation or the opponent scores the in the paint because we switched 5 times and Harrison is guarding their center. Our defensive scheme is terrible... was really bad under Fizz and hasn't improved much since. 

 

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When Zach was here Marc rarely played in the low post. JaM was supposed to be taking on some of this role but he is absolute trash

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I think the problem was addressed before the start of the season when Gasol said the team wasn't working on offense at all, strictly defense. Training camp and pre-season games are when you work on these issues but Fizdale chose to work solely on defense content that his version of LeBron (Chandler Parsons), Mike Conley (I assume his Dwayne Wade) and Gasol would be sufficient to create the offense without having plays to run. 

Now that 2/3rds of the offense is in street clothes the offense is exposed as being completely one dimensional and easy to defend. Forcing Gasol to be the prime scorer is clearly a misuse of his talent but the team doesn't have any other options. Surprisingly Gasol has actually performed well during December compared to November. His FG% is up if only negligibly (41.12% to 42.7%) but improvement is taken where you can find it right now. His rebounds are basically unchanged (8.5 to 8.0) but his 3 point shooting has dramatically improved (29.8% to 41.9%). His scoring is up as well (17.8 PPG to 20.1 PPG). However, he can't do it alone. 

Evans had an off night but his decline in performance is no illusion. In November Evans shot 52% from the floor. In November that dropped to 43%. We don't notice the drop so much because his minutes have gone up in December so the overall points have only declined by about 2 pts a game. However his effectiveness scoring is way down. Parsons is shooting more and scoring more but is far less efficient in the process. His FG% is down (50.0% to 46.6%). His 3 point shooting is down (44.4% to 36%) and his rebounding is horrid for a 6-10 stretch forward (2.9 RPG). JaMychal Green is earning his paycheck not exceeding it also (39.1% from the field in December).

At least Dillon Brooks has been improving in December.

McLemore is getting more comfortable shooting on occasions. Jarell Martin and Deyonta Davis have had memorable moments as well. However, none seem capable of playing more significant roles because consistency is not their strong points. 

If the team gets healthy then maybe they can start pressuring teams again but the reality is there is no offense and that puts too much pressure on individual play and defense. 

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11 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I think the problem was addressed before the start of the season when Gasol said the team wasn't working on offense at all, strictly defense. Training camp and pre-season games are when you work on these issues but Fizdale chose to work solely on defense content that his version of LeBron (Chandler Parsons), Mike Conley (I assume his Dwayne Wade) and Gasol would be sufficient to create the offense without having plays to run. 

 

How anyone who purported to earn a living coaching and managing in the NBA remotely thought that the Grizz, sans Z-Bo, had anything close to the talent of "the King" and D-Wade shows that I clearly got into the wrong profession. Nothing about the careers of Gasol and Conley spells "scoring load bearers" like LeBron and D-Wade. To go into season planning on just rolling the balls out on Offense with that roster has got to be the most incompetent piece of sports management in the history of the league, if that is indeed what happened. From the looks of how this team is playing this year, it seems like a very plausible scenario.

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2 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

How anyone who purported to earn a living coaching and managing in the NBA remotely thought that the Grizz, sans Z-Bo, had anything close to the talent of "the King" and D-Wade shows that I clearly got into the wrong profession. Nothing about the careers of Gasol and Conley spells "scoring load bearers" like LeBron and D-Wade. To go into season planning on just rolling the balls out on Offense with that roster has got to be the most incompetent piece of sports management in the history of the league, if that is indeed what happened. From the looks of how this team is playing this year, it seems like a very plausible scenario.

Pretty sure that is coaching. 

The composition of the roster is on the management though.

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4 hours ago, Zappastache said:

Noticed this 3 different times during the game last night. One time Reke was on the wing with Gasol at the top of the key open and Andrew Harrison in the corner. He didn't even look at Gasol, just took a dribble toward the basket and threw it to Harrison. Also noticed Chalmers and Brooks not pass it to Gasol when he had a mismatch at some other points...

I could see there being a bit of a locker room rift. Gasol is always yelling at someone after there is a missed rotation or the opponent scores the in the paint because we switched 5 times and Harrison is guarding their center. Our defensive scheme is terrible... was really bad under Fizz and hasn't improved much since. 

 

I'm not so sure about all that.  I think they are purposely trying to work the offense without marc at times lately, and marc is going along with it.

But i think tyreke has a big problem with marc gasol wanting to be assists leader in every game.  I noticed 3 times that tyreke passed up open shots after marc passed him the ball last night.  He doesn't want gasol getting the assists.   I get what tyreke is doing, but he is totally wrong.  I hope he avoids this in the future.

One other thing i noticed on a fast break a few games back.  Tyreke threw the ball for marc for an assist but marc passed it back to get an assist when he should have taken the shot, and tyreke passed it back again.  Just a bad look.

 

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Just now, tmoneyinmphs said:

 

But i think tyreke has a big problem with marc gasol wanting to be assists leader in every game.  I noticed 3 times that tyreke passed up open shots after marc passed him the ball last night.  He doesn't want gasol getting the assists. 

 

That is stupid.

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9 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

After watching the Dubs B-squad beat the Grizz, and if it is true that the Grizz are not trying to tank any seasons while Gasol is still the focal point of the team, then they need to make a move quickly to find some low post scoring (please bring Z-Bo back, he's killing it in Sac-town!) It is painfully obvious that the team is struggling now because teams are packing the paint and daring them to shoot, like they always have. But, the problem this year is that teams aren't packing the paint to stop a low post scoring threat, but to simply take away the drive to the basket, while there is still no consistent outside shooting to make teams pay. The Grizz countered this in the past by putting pressure on the opposing team's inside D and then kicking it out for a slim chance of making teams pay for packing it in. If there was an actual low post threat to keep teams honest (and stop the bleeding when the jumpers inevitably stop falling), the Grizz would probably be a 3-5 seed in the West right now, instead of a bottom feeder.

The only paint scoring threat they have now is Reke driving to the rim. Gasol got stripped at least 4 times last night trying to drive to the basket from the 3 pt line. If Gasol would post up more, rather than camp out on the 3 pt. line, he could put more pressure on the interior D, making it harder to rotate when and if he passes out of the double team. Its obvious that the team doesn't work on low post offense enough. Brevin Knight commented several times last nite that Gasol had an advantage on the post, yet the guards couldn't get him the ball in time to do anything with it. Bad angles, bad spacing, and bad shot clock awareness indicate that the team is not working on a low post offense with any sense of urgency or agency. It appears to be an afterthought, but it is their best weapon (or could be, if they focused on it). Instead, they seem to run high pick and roll, then isos, which is what everybody was saying was the inefficient O that Z-Bo made them run, which , obviously, is not the case. Again, if Gasol had a true center's game, this team would be much better off. Instead, we see Gasol looking like a baby giraffe driving to the rim as slowly and awkwardly as a 7'2"  non-athletic , no handle shooting guard would look.  

I don't think marc can be what you and i want.  He is going to shy away from a lot of contact on a consistent basis.

One reason i think fizzdale wanted marc not to go past the free throw line on offense is that marc gasol is likely one of the slowest players getting back on defense, and lets admit it.  He is our best rim defender right now.  If marc goes under the offensive rim and misses the shot, he is likely to not get the rebound and the opposing team will be fast breaking the other way for an easy score.  By keeping marc at the foul line or 3 point line, it gives him a head start getting back.

I also think that is why fizzdale wanted to not start zbo and gasol together last year   Zbo was also getting slow in transition as he was getting older.  The other reason was to bring scoring off the bench.

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2 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

That is stupid.

I have to agree with you BigHunk. The fact that Reke is on a one year deal because the rest of the league gave him up for dead, he has more important issues to worry about and is doing an excellent job making the NBA world notice him.

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2 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

I have to agree with you BigHunk. The fact that Reke is on a one year deal because the rest of the league gave him up for dead, he has more important issues to worry about and is doing an excellent job making the NBA world notice him.

Exactly, Reke has pretty much guaranteed himself a trip out of Memphis before the end of Feb

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11 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

That is stupid.

If you don't agree, just say so.  Saying a person's statement is just stupid and saying nothing else makes you sound like a ****.

Tyreke did exactly what i said.  I'm a big tyreke fan.  It was disappointing.   If marc wants to pass up his open shots, that's diva marc for ya.  But i expect tyreke to be above that.  That's all.

 

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7 minutes ago, tmoneyinmphs said:

I don't think marc can be what you and i want.  He is going to shy away from a lot of contact on a consistent basis.

One reason i think fizzdale wanted marc not to go past the free throw line on offense is that marc gasol is likely one of the slowest players getting back on defense, and lets admit it.  He is our best rim defender right now.  If marc goes under the offensive rim and misses the shot, he is likely to not get the rebound and the opposing team will be fast breaking the other way for an easy score.  By keeping marc at the foul line or 3 point line, it gives him a head start getting back.

I also think that is why fizzdale wanted to not start zbo and gasol together last year   Zbo was also getting slow in transition as he was getting older.  The other reason was to bring scoring off the bench.

Marc at the top of the key is not a new thing by Fizdale. They been playing that way for years, and it wasn't a major problem before. By your reasoning it should be even better now "slow" Zbo is gone, replaced by "fast" JaM. Well it isn't because JaM is a scrub, and Zbo was not the one slowing the team down in transition, despite what others here kept saying about him.

Fizdale might have been well liked in the BB community, he might have been a nice guy, he might have been LBJs good friend but he was not a good tactician and coach. So now that he is gone who care what he thinks. In the meantime Zach is killing his opposing player, on a crap roster and leading his team to a better record than we have

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3 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Marc at the top of the key is not a new thing by Fizdale. They been playing that way for years, and it wasn't a major problem before. By your reasoning it should be even better now "slow" Zbo is gone, replaced by "fast" JaM. Well it isn't because JaM is a scrub, and Zbo was not the one slowing the team down in transition, despite what others here kept saying about him.

Fizdale might have been well liked in the BB community, he might have been a nice guy, he might have been LBJs good friend but he was not a good tactician and coach. So now that he is gone who care what he thinks. In the meantime Zach is killing his opposing player, on a crap roster and leading his team to a better record than we have

"better record" is the 6th-worst record in the league. Let's relax

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1 minute ago, BigHunkALove said:

Marc at the top of the key is not a new thing by Fizdale. They been playing that way for years, and it wasn't a major problem before. By your reasoning it should be even better now "slow" Zbo is gone, replaced by "fast" JaM. Well it isn't because JaM is a scrub, and Zbo was not the one slowing the team down in transition, despite what others here kept saying about him.

Fizdale might have been well liked in the BB community, he might have been a nice guy, he might have been LBJs good friend but he was not a good tactician and coach. So now that he is gone who care what he thinks. In the meantime Zach is killing his opposing player, on a crap roster and leading his team to a better record than we have

I guess you're gonnna tell me that marc gasol shooting 3's is not new too.

I'm a zbo fan unlike some of you.  I know the value of zbo.  He doesn't need to jump to play his game, but his transition was getting slower and he still killed it here in memphis, so i don't see your point.

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24 minutes ago, tmoneyinmphs said:

I don't think marc can be what you and i want.  He is going to shy away from a lot of contact on a consistent basis.

One reason i think fizzdale wanted marc not to go past the free throw line on offense is that marc gasol is likely one of the slowest players getting back on defense, and lets admit it.  He is our best rim defender right now.  If marc goes under the offensive rim and misses the shot, he is likely to not get the rebound and the opposing team will be fast breaking the other way for an easy score.  By keeping marc at the foul line or 3 point line, it gives him a head start getting back.

I also think that is why fizzdale wanted to not start zbo and gasol together last year   Zbo was also getting slow in transition as he was getting older.  The other reason was to bring scoring off the bench.

I think I heard a coach mention that before (may have been david thorpe) and that seems plausible.  

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30 minutes ago, Holidayinn21 said:

"better record" is the 6th-worst record in the league. Let's relax

 

30 minutes ago, tmoneyinmphs said:

 

 

I guess you're gonnna tell me that marc gasol shooting 3's is not new too.

I'm a zbo fan unlike some of you.  I know the value of zbo.  He doesn't need to jump to play his game, but his transition was getting slower and he still killed it here in memphis, so i don't see your point.

Zbo is on a roster that is worse than ours (hard to believe) and is a starter (which Fizdale did not want here) and is killing it. So I'm with you about his value, they should not have let him go, especially for zero in return. But the statement Reke dogged it because he doesn't want Marc to top the assists stat is stupid but your are entitled to think this way if you wish.....

See you said "diva Marc" and made it personal and your views are well known here. I'm saying these guys are above petty childhood tantrums. As Father Pat said, Reke has big incentive to play well in every way, every night. It just wasn't on for him, or Marc last night, no more no less

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