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Memphis @ Golden State 12/20/17

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Grizzlies Gametime Discussion

(9-21) vs. (24-6)
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Date/Time: Wednesday, December 20, 9:30 pm CT

Location: Oracle Arena, Oakland, CA

Television: NBALP | Fox Sports South

Memphis Radio: 92.9FM | 680AM

Promotions:None

Officials: Kane Fitzgerald | Mark Ayotte | Aaron Smith

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Grizzlies Starting 5

Tyreke Evans Andrew Harrison Dillon Brooks JaMychal Green Marc Gasol
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Warriors Starting 5

Patrick McCaw Klay Thompson Kevin Durant Jordan Bell JaVale McGee
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Benches

  • Ben McLemore
  • Mike Conley
  • Deyonta Davis
  • Mario Chalmers
  • Jarell Martin
  • Chandler Parsons
  • James Ennis
  • Ivan Rabb
  • Wayne Selden
  • Brandan Wright
  • Omri Casspi
  • Steph Curry
  • Draymond Green
  • Andre Iguodala
  • Damian Jones
  • Shaun Livingston
  • Kevon Looney
  • Zaza Pachulia
  • David West
  • Nick Young

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Warriors: Preview | Recap | News | Roster | Stats | Schedule | Photos | Video | Tickets

Depth Charts: CBS | ESPN | Yahoo

Injuries: CBS | ESPN | FOX | Yahoo

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Just a quick heads up on game threads. I will be traveling a lot for Xmas, New Years, and CES, so this will be the last official game thread until the Lakers game on Jan 15.

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Please play Ivan Rabb before Davis or Martin see the court. 

Rabb must earn those minutes.

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5 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Rabb must earn those minutes.

I believe he has. 

Memphis Hustle Stats-
Ivan Rabb: 29.3 MPG, 16.2 PPG, 57.6 FG%. 71.4 3pt%, 10 RPG, 2.2 APG, 1.6 BPG
Jarell Martin: 26.8 MPG, 11 PPG, 32 FG%, 40 3PT%, 5.5 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.5 BPG
Deyonta Davis: 25.8 MPG, 16.0 PPG, 55.6 FG%, 0.0 3pt%, 6.0 RPG, 0.0 APG, 3.0 BPG

Career D League Stats-
Ivan Rabb: 29.3 MPG, 16.2 PPG, 57.6 FG%. 71.4 3pt%, 10 RPG, 2.2 APG, 1.6 BPG
Jarell Martin: 28.3 MPG, 15.3 PPG, 42.9 FG%, 31.6 3pt%, 7.0 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.9 BPG
Deyonta Davis: 27.5 MPG, 11.4 PPG, 55.1 FG%, 0.0 3PT%, 8.2 RPG, 0.4 APG, 2.5 BPG

I don't know if Rabb is the answer but I do have to wonder what's the question is Martin and Davis are getting significantly more minutes than Rabb since the comparisons seem to favor Rabb in real game situations. 

https://youtu.be/IDAZ7z9YH5Q

Also, the Grizzlies called up Rabb prior to the road trip so he will have had time to practice with the team, he's from Oakland so he'll be playing in front of his home town and he is very familiar with JOrdan Bell having played against him for two years at Cal when Bell played for Oregon. 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I believe he has. 

Memphis Hustle Stats-
Ivan Rabb: 29.3 MPG, 16.2 PPG, 57.6 FG%. 71.4 3pt%, 10 RPG, 2.2 APG, 1.6 BPG
Jarell Martin: 26.8 MPG, 11 PPG, 32 FG%, 40 3PT%, 5.5 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.5 BPG
Deyonta Davis: 25.8 MPG, 16.0 PPG, 55.6 FG%, 0.0 3pt%, 6.0 RPG, 0.0 APG, 3.0 BPG

Career D League Stats-
Ivan Rabb: 29.3 MPG, 16.2 PPG, 57.6 FG%. 71.4 3pt%, 10 RPG, 2.2 APG, 1.6 BPG
Jarell Martin: 28.3 MPG, 15.3 PPG, 42.9 FG%, 31.6 3pt%, 7.0 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.9 BPG
Deyonta Davis: 27.5 MPG, 11.4 PPG, 55.1 FG%, 0.0 3PT%, 8.2 RPG, 0.4 APG, 2.5 BPG

I don't know if Rabb is the answer but I do have to wonder what's the question is Martin and Davis are getting significantly more minutes than Rabb since the comparisons seem to favor Rabb in real game situations. 

https://youtu.be/IDAZ7z9YH5Q

Gleague means nothing I thought. Russ Smith was a gleague monster and no one here cared. Coach must see something in practice.

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

Gleague means nothing I thought. Russ Smith was a gleague monster and no one here cared. Coach must see something in practice.

Also, the Grizzlies called up Rabb prior to the road trip so he will have had time to practice with the team, he's from Oakland so he'll be playing in front of his home town and he is very familiar with JOrdan Bell having played against him for two years at Cal when Bell played for Oregon. If you have followed Rabb at all you would realize the Grizzlies have been bringing him up to practice with the team quite a lot lately so he could be ready for the opportunity when it presented itself.

I hope tonight is that opportunity but if it isn't I will be patient. I know Rabb is a superior player to Martin and Davis so why bring up a great potential player when you can prove to the rest of the league the other two are busts so no one will trade for them and the team will suffer. 

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39 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Also, the Grizzlies called up Rabb prior to the road trip so he will have had time to practice with the team, he's from Oakland so he'll be playing in front of his home town and he is very familiar with JOrdan Bell having played against him for two years at Cal when Bell played for Oregon. If you have followed Rabb at all you would realize the Grizzlies have been bringing him up to practice with the team quite a lot lately so he could be ready for the opportunity when it presented itself.

I hope tonight is that opportunity but if it isn't I will be patient. I know Rabb is a superior player to Martin and Davis so why bring up a great potential player when you can prove to the rest of the league the other two are busts so no one will trade for them and the team will suffer. 

And Jordan Bell has been an impactful role player for the Warriors. Lets be honest, if Bell were here he would have to "wait his turn" and '"try to be ready when called" like Rabb is having to despite clearly being an NBA rotation player. With a coach and an organization that actually promotes its youth and is even trying to win titles at the same time, he is being put in the starting lineup early in the year. 

They see he is better than a low first round pick like Looney and they are playing him. Here, Rabb is clearly better than Martin who probably only plays cause he was a first round pick and has a couple of years experience. Same parallel example, but this is the type of stuff we have been screaming about for years. These rookies can play for winners when put in their proper role.

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Mixed feelings - going to the game (take every chance I get up here) but **** when I bought these tix we where 7-5:):)

just hoping warriors play the b team (which it seems they will)

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17 minutes ago, Dwash said:

And Jordan Bell has been an impactful role player for the Warriors. Lets be honest, if Bell were here he would have to "wait his turn" and '"try to be ready when called" like Rabb is having to despite clearly being an NBA rotation player. With a coach and an organization that actually promotes its youth and is even trying to win titles at the same time, he is being put in the starting lineup early in the year. 

They see he is better than a low first round pick like Looney and they are playing him. Here, Rabb is clearly better than Martin who probably only plays cause he was a first round pick and has a couple of years experience. Same parallel example, but this is the type of stuff we have been screaming about for years. These rookies can play for winners when put in their proper role.

Possibly they have a need he fills rather than some desire to just throw young guys onto the court. You mentioned that Looney is not playing. What you forgot to mention is Looney has been dealing with a bad hip that made him a risky pick to begin with. He's played a total of 81 games since entering the league 3 seasons ago. You also failed to mention that Zaza Pachulia and Draymond Green are injured. Those player's injuries plus the loss of Mo Speights allow Bell more playing time. 

Memphis conversely was relatively healthy last season at PF with Zach Randolph and JaMychael Green. This season with Z-Bo gone and Green starting the season injured minutes fell to Martin and now with Wright injured Davis has gotten PT as well. So it seems that Memphis, like Golden State, is playing their younger players more as opportunities arise due to injury and not some grand scheme to sit veterans and play young players instead. Throw on top the fact that Golden State's starters are fantastic and their first players off the bench include veterans Andre Iquodala and David West, hardly young players, make it so the team is able to play their youth after the game is out of reach. That is a luxury Memphis can't afford when they are struggling to make the playoffs. 

But back to the topic at hand. Ivan Rabb has shown his potential with the Hustle far more than Martin or Davis. He has had time to practice with the team as well. He has more experience against his opponent than either Davis or Martin as well. It is time to give him a shot.

I would assume with your apparent love of playing younger players you would support this rather than argue against it. -_-

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12 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Possibly they have a need he fills rather than some desire to just throw young guys onto the court. You mentioned that Looney is not playing. What you forgot to mention is Looney has been dealing with a bad hip that made him a risky pick to begin with. He's played a total of 81 games since entering the league 3 seasons ago. You also failed to mention that Zaza Pachulia and Draymond Green are injured. Those player's injuries plus the loss of Mo Speights allow Bell more playing time. 

Memphis conversely was relatively healthy last season at PF with Zach Randolph and JaMychael Green. This season with Z-Bo gone and Green starting the season injured minutes fell to Martin and now with Wright injured Davis has gotten PT as well. So it seems that Memphis, like Golden State, is playing their younger players more as opportunities arise due to injury and not some grand scheme to sit veterans and play young players instead. Throw on top the fact that Golden State's starters are fantastic and their first players off the bench include veterans Andre Iquodala and David West, hardly young players, make it so the team is able to play their youth after the game is out of reach. That is a luxury Memphis can't afford when they are struggling to make the playoffs. 

But back to the topic at hand. Ivan Rabb has shown his potential with the Hustle far more than Martin or Davis. He has had time to practice with the team as well. He has more experience against his opponent than either Davis or Martin as well. It is time to give him a shot.

I would assume with your apparent love of playing younger players you would support this rather than argue against it. -_-

Lol cause this is a cut and dry example no matter how many irrelevant variables you try to throw in it. Green/Pachulia have nothing to do with this. Martin has had as many injury problems in two years as Looney, if not more, but both are healthy this year.

In one example, the rookie Bell shows he is better than Looney. He is playing more, period. He has even played more and started games over the vet McGee. So yeah, their are even vets that could be playing more than Bell for a team thats trying to "win games."

In the other example, you yourself have said that the rookie Rabb is better than Martin, who has a similar profile to Looney, yet he doesnt see the court. 

Its the Grizzlies poor organizational philosophy that leads to the failed development of youth. Not the youth just not being ready or stinking it up in practice.

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15 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Lol cause this is a cut and dry example no matter how many irrelevant variables you try to throw in it. Green/Pachulia have nothing to do with this. Martin has had as many injury problems in two years as Looney, if not more, but both are healthy this year.

In one example, the rookie Bell shows he is better than Looney. He is playing more, period. He has even played more and started games over the vet McGee.

In the other example, you yourself have said that the rookie Rabb is better than Martin, who has a similar profile to Looney, yet he doesnt see the court. 

Its the Grizzlies poor organizational philosophy that leads to the failed development of youth. Not the youth just not being ready or stinking it up in practice.

Do you know anything about Kevon Lonney? He played 5 games his rookie year before having 2 surgeries on his hip. That is a severe issue to overcome as a player. The link is actually an excellent article about Looney who speaks about how important it is for rookies to watch and learn from veterans as well as his medical issues. 

But I suppose you are correct. I guess Fizdale, JB Bickerstaff, Lionel Hollins and Dave Joerger all failed our youth movement.

Or is it simply that coaches won't play untalented players simply because the front office drafted them or signed them as free agents if they are going to cost them wins and their jobs. I always have said that previous coaches had to win or get fired. Joerger and Fizdale are prime examples of that despite them both taking different attacks on playing inexperienced players. It's a bottom line league and if you lose games you get fired. Coaches will play players who help them win games. 

Golden State didn't play Looney as a rookie. Damian James, a 2nd year center for Golden State rarely sees the court. And this is on a Golden State team that wins in excess of 60 games a season. I wonder how many minutes Golden State would play these guys if they were struggling to win 45 games? 

Dwash, I don't know what is wrong with you today but isn't this a bit of a rounded dialogue all based off my one comment that I hope Rabb sees the court first before Martin or Davis. For me it simply makes sense and doesn't have to be repeated. In this game with Rabb playing in front of his home crowd, against a player he's familiar with and having practiced with the team, it makes sense. That is all I was saying. 

I don't know what you are saying. One minute you are insulting my statement about letting Rabb play, the next minute you are taking the opposite side and are upset with the Grizzlies FO for not playing young players despite that fact that both Davis and Martin are young as well. Do you want the young players to play or not? If you do does it really matter this much to you whether it is Martin, Rabb or Davis??? 

 

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17 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Do you know anything about Kevon Lonney? He played 5 games his rookie year before having 2 surgeries on his hip. That is a severe issue to overcome as a player. The link is actually an excellent article about Looney who speaks about how important it is for rookies to watch and learn from veterans as well as his medical issues. 

But I suppose you are correct. I guess Fizdale, JB Bickerstaff, Lionel Hollins and Dave Joerger all failed our youth movement.

Or is it simply that coaches won't play untalented players simply because the front office drafted them or signed them as free agents if they are going to cost them wins and their jobs. I always have said that previous coaches had to win or get fired. Joerger and Fizdale are prime examples of that despite them both taking different attacks on playing inexperienced players. It's a bottom line league and if you lose games you get fired. Coaches will play players who help them win games. 

Golden State didn't play Looney as a rookie. Damian James, a 2nd year center for Golden State rarely sees the court. And this is on a Golden State team that wins in excess of 60 games a season. I wonder how many minutes Golden State would play these guys if they were struggling to win 45 games? 

Dwash, I don't know what is wrong with you today but isn't this a bit of a rounded dialogue all based off my one comment that I hope Rabb sees the court first before Martin or Davis. For me it simply makes sense and doesn't have to be repeated. In this game with Rabb playing in front of his home crowd, against a player he's familiar with and having practiced with the team, it makes sense. That is all I was saying. 

 

I am only pointing out one thing really and it wasnt meant to be a rounded dialogue cause I felt they were strong parallel examples. GSW quickly moved Bell ahead of Looney (and James) cause he is clearly better. The Grizzlies are dragging their feet on moving Rabb ahead of Martin (and Davis) despite evidence that you can clearly see of him being better. In this case it has nothing to do with how good the teams are, who is on the roster or anything. Its a choice. Its a small example, but I think it highlights a bigger issue that has been a problem with the Grizzlies player development for years, imo. Chosing playing time based guys based on status (contracts, years in the league, etc) or personal bias. 

After years of debating points like this and being told I should just trust the coach and he knows best and knows more, now you see something along those same lines and want to point it out and we should just all ignore this? Nah...

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I am only pointing out one thing really and it wasnt meant to be a rounded dialogue cause I felt they were strong parallel examples. GSW quickly moved Bell ahead of Looney (and James) cause he is clearly better. The Grizzlies are dragging their feet on moving Rabb ahead of Martin (and Davis) despite evidence that you can clearly see of him being better. In this case it has nothing to do with how good the teams are, who is on the roster or anything. Its a choice. Its a small example, but I think it highlights a bigger issue that has been a problem with the Grizzlies player development for years, imo. Chosing playing time based guys based on status (contracts, years in the league, etc) or personal bias.

OR simply that Looney's hip injury is more debilitating that they thought when they drafted him. I don't believe Looney will ever be a worthwhile player because of his two hip surgeries. It's robbed him of his explosiveness and power. That is more likely the reason Bell has moved up the depth chart and injuries have given him the opportunity to perform on the court as well. 

Rabb didn't sign in July. He didn't play in summer league. He signed the day before training camp opened. He had to recover from foot issues that limited his ability to prepare for the season. He's been working with the Hustle now and has had opportunities to work with the Grizzlies. He's earned his time. Hopefully he'll get his shot soon. These aren't identical situations at all. 

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12 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

OR simply that Looney's hip injury is more debilitating that they thought when they drafted him. I don't believe Looney will ever be a worthwhile player because of his two hip surgeries. It's robbed him of his explosiveness and power. That is more likely the reason Bell has moved up the depth chart and injuries have given him the opportunity to perform on the court as well. 

Rabb didn't sign in July. He didn't play in summer league. He signed the day before training camp opened. He had to recover from foot issues that limited his ability to prepare for the season. He's been working with the Hustle now and has had opportunities to work with the Grizzlies. He's earned his time. Hopefully he'll get his shot soon. These aren't identical situations at all. 

Who cares what Looneys injuries have done? I dont care if he has a prosthetic hip. Bell is better than him, so he plays. Thats my point. In Memphis, we continue to play trash over a guy who looks like he has the talent to be a player. He cant even get a few minutes on the court to show if he is better. AND THIS TEAM SUCKS!!

If Rabb was on GSW and not Bell, he would playing. If Bell were in Memphis instead of Rabb, he would still be waiting his turn.

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If that's what you want to believe then believe it. Personally I don't see it that way. 

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You are right. This team is always on point when it comes to developing its youth. Im sure Rabb will get his shot soon. He just has to keep showing the staff what he can do in practice.

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6 minutes ago, Dwash said:

You are right. This team is always on point when it comes to developing its youth. Im sure Rabb will get his shot soon. He just has to keep showing the staff what he can do in practice.

I think the team has developed its youth worth developing. Just too many lousy players have been brought in to develop. Conley, Gasol, Darrell Arthur and JaMychal Green have been developed. Lowry, Caroll, Vasquez and others were developed here and blossomed elsewhere too. 

The problem has been Thabeet, Xavier Henry, Josh Selby, Jamaal Franklin, Jordan Adams, Wade Baldwin and now Deyonta Davis and Rade Zagorac for the Clippers 2019 draft pick. Bad players don't get developed in good or bad organizations. Just like Kevon Looney and Damian Jones aren't being developed with the Warriors. Chris Wallace been terrible at the one thing he was supposed to be excellent at...drafting. Without talent you can't develop players in the NBA. 

I still can't believe people don't understand this. Remember when everyone was screaming to "give" James Ennis playing time? Well he has it now and how do you like it??? He never had NBA talent. Rabb was higher rated than Bell, Martin or Davis coming out of high school. He's proven with the Hustle that he has talent, he's practiced with the team and he is going to be playing in front of his hometown. Now is the ideal time to move him into the rotation. The Grizzlies aren't dragging their feet. They are preparing him for success. 

If you want to cry over wasted draft picks go ahead. If you want to talk about horrible free agent signings I'm right there with you. However, I can't blame the last two coaches (both of whom were fired for not winning enough)  for not playing young players who had no talent. That's just asinine.

If they had played them earlier you would have seen how bad they were earlier, the coaches would have been fired earlier and the problem in the Front Office would still be sitting.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Is Golden State trolling us with that lineup?

From what I saw, Curry's legitimately out and Green is "doubtful", so no. 

Still got Durant, Thompson and Iggy. 

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Grabbing popcorn and watching this debate between Chip and DWASH.

This is the same thing that happened when DWASH tried downplaying what I provided.

Pretty funny. Nothing besides his own ideas are right. Regardless of the logic provided by others. 

So far this season, you now see DD, Harrison, Dillon Brooks, AND Kobi Simmons playing. 

Rabbs time is coming. 

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And DWASH, this is not an insult to you, but you can’t help but sit back and look at the past couple of points you’ve tried making without thinking of WHY things are the way they are.

You simply point to what you THINK is right without providing anything substantial to go along with it. 

 

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