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Ayton is beast, but Bagley is being compared to Kevin Garnett and Doncic to Manu Ginobili. Can't go wrong with any of the 3. I am concerned with the reports of Ayton being a diva though and he needs to develop a motor on defense. Michael Porter Jr. has to be a pass. Too risky with his back surgery history. Wish we sold Marc Gasol early and got an additional high draft pick.

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On 3/6/2018 at 1:31 PM, ItIsWhatItIs said:

People keep saying that in the current NBA you take the perimeter player over the big but if you look at the best players in the future and the ones most likely to win titles, they are basically "unicorn" bigs. To me, the guys like Towns, Davis, Porzingis and Embiid are clearly the future of the NBA.

If you look at the premier perimeter players currently, the most special ones are/have been Lebron, Giannis, Durant, Curry and Harden. People see Curry/Harden dominating and they think they are the rule of the NBA when I think they're the exceptions. You look at Durant, Lebron and Giannis in the postseason when it matters as well and they play the 4 spot all of the time which classifies them more as Unicorn bigs than anything else. You look at the hottest young player in the game right now, Ben Simmons, and we can see what mold he fits under. If you think Doncic is that special of a ball handler and can play PG full time, take him #1. But don't take him #1 because you think it's a perimeter league because of James Harden who has ATG ball handling skills/vision for someone over 6'5. 

For me personally, I see Bagley and Ayton as two potential "unicorn" bigs and I want that for where the league is heading. 

Weird you compare Doncic to Harden and Curry. Don't you realize Doncic is basically the same height as LeBron and still growing?

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3 hours ago, Allen said:

I thought they fired the last medical team?

Did they? I wasn't aware.

More importantly, did they hire a new competent medical team or is it just Joe Abadi with a couple of dowsing rods trying to save some bucks?

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At this point, unless he has a huge showing in the tournament, you can't take MPJ at 1 or 2. But between #3-5 I don't see why he shouldn't be heavily considered, especially over guys like JJJ n Bamba.

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Ayton is the consensus number 1 pick now, right?

Not sure that there is a consensus number 2 pick.

I think it could be a few guys, with a guy like Collin Sexton moving up.  Also depends if your team needs a point guard.

I would rather be at 1 or 4.  2 or 3 don't do it for me.

Not sure what my mock draft of the day would look like but the top 3 that interests me the most is Ayton, Bamba, and Sexton.  I think point guards and centers come at a premium.  Especially in this pick-and-roll world.  Then you go out and get shooters around those 2.  

Ayton: projects as an elite offensive center.  Bamba: Elite defense? The potential looks like it is there, and he could end up being a Javale McGee-esque rim-runner on steroids. Sexton looks like a guy a potential prototype point guard.  Mikal Bridges might be more of a complementary guy, but has the potential to be a really good 3 and D shooting guard (which is a valuable skill set).

The other players have upsides, but can the project as an ELITE player on at least one side of the ball, or in any particular area.  

Luka Doncic is a "point guard" but I am not sure we would take the ball out of Conley's hands to give it to Doncic.  I actually like his size and overall attributes as a potential shooting guard.  He might be the "shooting guard of the future" or at least his skill set could get him there, IF he can continue to improve his 3 point shooting.  Also, can he defend enough at a high level?  If so, with his other stuff, AND if he becomes a great long-range shooter then you are looking at a more well-rounded Klay Thompson type.  Although maybe he is no higher than 4-6 on my board.

Probably the best-all-around player in the draft but what does that give you?

Porter Jr. is another guy in that 4-6 range.  Lots of question marks although most of those have to do with his injury.  Looks like a top prospect at small forward -- at least on offense, and if he gets his speed back.  

If we end up at 2 I would rather trade down to 4 or 5.  

I think JJJ will solidify his draft stock by the end of the tournament -- or at least we will find out what range he will potentially be drafted in.

Trae Young is a big wild card.  His team (and him) slumped towards the end of the year, but he has a chance to redeem himself this week.

 

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3 hours ago, cdp said:

At this point, unless he has a huge showing in the tournament, you can't take MPJ at 1 or 2. But between #3-5 I don't see why he shouldn't be heavily considered, especially over guys like JJJ n Bamba.

We won't be able to answer that question. Without his medicals and/or seeing him in a predraft workout, no way we can know where he is as a player. If healthy, he is probably the #1 pick though.

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4 minutes ago, New_Sacred_Cow said:

The tournament and workouts should really separate people further. Right now there are too many what ifs.

That's what I am thinking, too! I have an epic blue chipper showdown between Arizona and Michigan State for the title as DeAndre Ayton and Jaren Jackson Jr. (and Miles Bridges) battle it out! Although Arizona would first have to win their opening game which could set up a second round game against Kentucky and those guys. 

If Texas can do well (could end up playing Cincy in the second round) then I think Bamba could move into the 3-4 range. 

If 10th seeded OU wins their opener then Trae Young vs. the World (aka the Duke Blue Devils) in the second round will answer some questions.

Another potential second round match up: Villanova vs. Alabama.  Can Collin Sexton run through a power house team that features Mikal Bridges, Jalen Bruson, and others?  NBA scouts are circling this potential Sweet 16 match up: Duke vs. Michigan State in Omaha, Nebraska.

Yeah, some guys COULD move down (Porter, Jr. and Mizzou have to play Florida St. in the first round then Xavier in the second round), BUT just as many guys should move up or at least hold their own with their draft stock.  

I also think this tournament will give us a sleeper candidate to move into the NBA lottery.  Maybe somebody on UVA, Cincy, Xavier, or Auburn.

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Hmm, never noticed this before. 

Not only do we probably not have a pick next year, but this year we have two picks in the top 33 but our fellow bottom-dwellers the Hawks and Suns each have FOUR.  So much for improving faster than they do. 

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26 minutes ago, TimBC said:

Hmm, never noticed this before. 

Not only do we probably not have a pick next year, but this year we have two picks in the top 33 but our fellow bottom-dwellers the Hawks and Suns each have FOUR.  So much for improving faster than they do. 

Honestly, i think we will actually tank next season. When we realize we will miss the playoffs, i think we will do all we can to keep our pick. 

 

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11 hours ago, TheStephensonConundrum said:

Weird you compare Doncic to Harden and Curry. Don't you realize Doncic is basically the same height as LeBron and still growing?

Lebron is the most skilled player in the league and one of the all time great freak athletes. Doncic is extremely skilled and may one day compare to Lebron in that regard (unlikely though). I don't care how much training Doncic does he will never compare to Lebron athletically.

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On 3/11/2018 at 11:11 PM, Dwash said:

Most of the highlights of him shooting that I have seen are just wide open jumpers. Very low release point.

Its all probability. You are talking about a 300 pounder in Eddy Curry. That aint Ayton. If I have two high level athletes and one is a good/great scorer and the other is a good/great defender...I would bank on the ability to coach up a guy who isnt physically handicapped to becoming a strong defender over my ability to turn an athlete into a scorer. Many come into the league with poor defensive reputations and become solid over time. However, most of the time (with some exceptions) you know what someones offensive ceiling is from day one if you are being honest with yourself.

Chris Wallace has said the opposite many times. You can teach a player how to shoot. You can’t teach a player to want to play defense and rebound. That comes from the heart not the coach.

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Chris Wallace has said the opposite many times. You can teach a player how to shoot. You can’t teach a player to want to play defense and rebound. That comes from the heart not the coach.

Not sure how to take that with your recent Wallace dislike.

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1 hour ago, smit-tay griz said:

Not sure how to take that with your recent Wallace dislike.

My feelings that Wallace is not a top guy for an organization doesn’t alter the fact that Wallace has said this many times. 

Abd to clarify my feelings on Chris Wallace, I don’t dislike the man. I don’t believe he should be the man in charge. I think he was and is an extremely qualified Assistant GM. He knows basketball but is a poor leader on top of a team.

The recent Tyreke Evans situation is a perfect example. Wallace was clearly getting more attractive offers leading up to the trade deadline. He wouldn’t have benched Evans for 10 days simply because teams were offering late 2nd round picks for him. He tried to get more than opposings teams were willing to offer and at the deadline the trade offers plummeted. I’m sure at the end he was only being offered late 2nd round picks but that wasn’t the best offers he received. He was scared to pull the trigger and ended up leaving the Grizzlies with nothing to show for their gamble on Evans this season. 

Another example was offering too much for Ben McLemore. There was no reason to offer him $5 million a season when he was dropped by Sacramento who were on the hook to pay him less! Wallace was snookered into overpaying for him. 

Wallace knows basketball but is routinely taken advantage of I. His role as GM. His best GM move was trading for Marc Gasol but don’t forget that many more intelligent basketball minds thought he was taken advantage of in that deal too. Then he had to pay the mid 2nd round pick like a mid-lottery pick to get him to sign here. The Gasol trade looked so bad after one season Wallace allowed Hasheem Thabeet to be drafted the next summer.

Wallace is so concerned now with keeping his job he doesn’t do his job. He blames others for his failures as GM (see David Fizdale, Dave Joerger, Mike Heisley) when he has been the Man with the power for every bad decision made in franchise history outside of the Rudy Gay trade and firing Lionel Hollins. 

So if Wallace says it is easier to teach someone how to shoot in the NBA rather than play defense or rebound I listen. When he makes a draft pick or signs a free agent to a big contract I cringe. 

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3 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Chris Wallace has said the opposite many times. You can teach a player how to shoot. You can’t teach a player to want to play defense and rebound. That comes from the heart not the coach.

Teach a player how to shoot, (spot up jumpers) yeah. How to become a SCORER?  Heck no.

CW is wrong then. Marc Gasol for example did not come in with a good defensive reputation. Does CW remember that he wasted the highest pick in franchise history to draft a defensive center to replace his future DPOY? It may have been in his heart, but he didnt have the know how to pick up on certain situations. If a guy wants to win badly enough he will learn.

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4 hours ago, Dwash said:

Teach a player how to shoot, (spot up jumpers) yeah. How to become a SCORER?  Heck no.

CW is wrong then. Marc Gasol for example did not come in with a good defensive reputation. Does CW remember that he wasted the highest pick in franchise history to draft a defensive center to replace his future DPOY? It may have been in his heart, but he didnt have the know how to pick up on certain situations. If a guy wants to win badly enough he will learn.

Probably impossible to change a player's personality.  Very hard to effect a player's Basketball IQ. Less hard to improve someone's specific (or even general) skill set.  Probably the BEST idea to help shore up a guy's strengths to make them even better, then help mask a guy's specific weaknesses.

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36 minutes ago, bobblybook1 said:

The only thing that scares me with Ayton is that I don’t want him to just to shoot jumpers. Cough Lemarcus Aldridge cough Marc.

Wide open 15 footers are ok.  Those long balls are bad bets though.  I think Marc has regressed from 3 although I haven't watch much Grizz ball other than the games I have gone to.

 

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48 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

 I think Marc has regressed from 3 

He's down a bit from last year, but that may be because the opponents know he's the guy they have to stop.

Add a Reke and a Conley and a working Parsons, and watch Marc's 3-pt %  go up. 

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12 hours ago, Dwash said:

Teach a player how to shoot, (spot up jumpers) yeah. How to become a SCORER?  Heck no.

CW is wrong then. Marc Gasol for example did not come in with a good defensive reputation. Does CW remember that he wasted the highest pick in franchise history to draft a defensive center to replace his future DPOY? It may have been in his heart, but he didnt have the know how to pick up on certain situations. If a guy wants to win badly enough he will learn.

Gasol came into the league as the European player of the year. He struggled as a rookie but he had an excellent reputation entering the league with a willingness to work to improve as well. He is a poor example of the point you are trying to make.

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57 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Gasol came into the league as the European player of the year. He struggled as a rookie but he had an excellent reputation entering the league with a willingness to work to improve as well. He is a poor example of the point you are trying to make.

Most people on this board thought that marc was a scrub after his rookie year with limited potentenal and sluggish lateral quickness. Thus the thabeet pick.

There is one good thing that came from the thabeet pick. It motivated marc to prove that he was the better center. Had the grizzlies not drafted thabeet who knows how marc would have turned out.

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Gasol came into the league as the European player of the year. He struggled as a rookie but he had an excellent reputation entering the league with a willingness to work to improve as well. He is a poor example of the point you are trying to make.

So European player of the year means that you are thought of as a good defender?

Since you need more proof that he had a poor defensive reputation, here is word from one of the same sites that is calling Ayton a poor defender. They gave Gasol a 6 on defense, about as low of a rating as they give anyone on any attribute.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/marc-gasol

If you need more names, Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson had poor defensive reps as well.

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Are we scared of Porter because of his injuries and our injury history? If not, he's gotta be our choice. Even with his poor debut, you can see the perfect jumper and the ability to get his own shot. Besides Young, who else can make his own shot. 

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