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Kevin B Moses

I Guess I'm In The Minority Because I Want Mike, Marc, Zach And Tony To Retire As Grizzlies

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And I have a reason. My reason is: they are the only ones on this train wreck of a team that I absolutely trust 100 percent.

 

I wouldn't trust Dave Joerger as far as I can throw him. I wouldn't turn my back on Pera for a hot second.

 

If I'm betting on somebody in this organization to get me out of this jam-- believe me, it ain't Chris Wallace, or Pera or Hollinger or that attorney friend of pera's. I'm betting on the guys that I know for a fact what they bring to the table.

 

I want Zach to be on social security before he ever is even considered to be let go. I want Tony Allen to leave FEF in a straight jacket. I want Mike Conley Jr. to become Mike Conley Sr to Mike Conley the 3rd who plays for THE Ohio State. I want Marc to set the career assists for a big man for a career in those god awful Memphis Tams uniforms.

 

You may disagree. But I have considered the evidence and I've drawn my line in the sand.     

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I'd rather trade our guys to places where they at least have a chance to compete in the playoffs than have them rot away in together in Memphis while the great memories fade further and further, people get more upset and fans start to turn on them, and eventually everything ends horribly. That sounds emasculating and unpleasant. And that's what's in store if we stick with this core.

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ZBo plays until he's past the age of social security eligibility?

We know what you might want, no matter how unrealistic it may be, but have you ever considered what ZBo might want?

A couple seasons ago he was in the top 25 for NBA all time career earnings. Being past his prime, having a large retirement fund, and if the team is not a legit contender, he will continue to toil on because it's what you want?

Has anyone ever had the talk with you about Santa Claus?

 

Bulls fans survived Jordan finishing his career elsewhere.

A couple guys with two all star appearances and two others that haven't gotten there, I have no problem with them retiring elsewhere and coming back for a special day at the FedEx Forum instead of playing here until they are an embarrassment to themselves and everyone that cares about them while the team has lost any chance of relevance because they held on to them far too long.

 

Might make a good Disney movie, but it's certain disaster for a small market NBA team. Your side of that line in the sand is far removed from reality.

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There will be better players to play for Memphis in the future. It's ok to let go.

 

 

That's where you and I differ. You seem to feel that youth and inexperience is always better than a veteran player because of the possibilities that youth holds to grow into something better. While this may be true in rare circumstances, in general youth is usually just a prolonged disappointment.

 

I also feel that characterizing my position as an affinity toward the past, or an irrational love for the core four, is a gross misstatement on your part. My position is based entirely on logic, same as yours.

 

In the past 3 drafts, there have been only 2, what I call, difference makers, players that could actually replace the guys we have:

 

Kristaps Porzingis.

Rudy Gobert.

 

3 drafts.

 

2012 had a ridiculous amount of difference makers compared to those drafts:

Anthony Davis

Damien Lillard

 

People may argue for Draymond Green, but I think he is more of a complimentary player in the vain of TA. You'd have to have a whole lot more than him to equal this grizzlies team. Lillard and Davis (Davis, only because his skillset is undeniable, but his poor record this year IS VERY QUESTIONABLE in my mind.)  

 

The fact that the grizzlies are consistently a top 4 to 5 seed in the west and teams with Kevin Love, Rubio, Wiggins, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, Eric Bledsoe, can't even get into the playoffs, should tell you something about the talent on this team.

 

The Milwaukee bucks have: the greek freak, greg monroe, john henson, j.parker, micheal carter williams, oj mayo, jbay, and they are 6 games under .500.

 

The grizzlies got lucky to get so many difference makers on one team, and I just don't think you trade those players for random youth. That's crazy talk.

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Difficult part is do we know that Joeger knows what he wants.

 

We can talk about Draymond all we want but there are like 3 teams that Draymond would really excel on IMO.

 

If Joeger knows what he needs, let's blow it up and go get it.

 

But like usual, who know if the coach and the decision makers are on the same page.

 

That is what I worry about.

 

Oh and Gasol being the best center in the game right now.

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That's where you and I differ. You seem to feel that youth and inexperience is always better than a veteran player because of the possibilities that youth holds to grow into something better. While this may be true in rare circumstances, in general youth is usually just a prolonged disappointment.

 

I also feel that characterizing my position as an affinity toward the past, or an irrational love for the core four, is a gross misstatement on your part. My position is based entirely on logic, same as yours.

 

In the past 3 drafts, there have been only 2, what I call, difference makers, players that could actually replace the guys we have:

 

Kristaps Porzingis.

Rudy Gobert.

 

3 drafts.

 

2012 had a ridiculous amount of difference makers compared to those drafts:

Anthony Davis

Damien Lillard

 

People may argue for Draymond Green, but I think he is more of a complimentary player in the vain of TA. You'd have to have a whole lot more than him to equal this grizzlies team. Lillard and Davis (Davis, only because his skillset is undeniable, but his poor record this year IS VERY QUESTIONABLE in my mind.)

 

The fact that the grizzlies are consistently a top 4 to 5 seed in the west and teams with Kevin Love, Rubio, Wiggins, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins, Eric Bledsoe, can't even get into the playoffs, should tell you something about the talent on this team.

 

The Milwaukee bucks have: the greek freak, greg monroe, john henson, j.parker, micheal carter williams, oj mayo, jbay, and they are 6 games under .500.

 

The grizzlies got lucky to get so many difference makers on one team, and I just don't think you trade those players for random youth. That's crazy talk.

You're right...we do differ. Because I am not going to act like this group was difference makers their first few years in league. It literally took getting an All NBA talent in his prime FOR FREE to get Mike and Marc out of the lottery. And as soon as ZBo declines, the team goes back.

 

I also know that extending multiple players past their prime is a recipe for disaster if you are paying them top dollar and have no youth for them to supplement.

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You're right...we do differ. Because I am not going to act like this group was difference makers their first few years in league. It literally took getting an All NBA talent in his prime FOR FREE to get Mike and Marc out of the lottery. And as soon as ZBo declines, the team goes back.

 

I also know that extending multiple players past their prime is a recipe for disaster if you are paying them top dollar and have no youth for them to supplement.

 

 

Prime and past their prime doesn't mean a lick of nothing to me. It really doesn't. I want players who play the right way at any age or arch in their career.

 

And know this core does that. I also know there is literally an nba full of guys that don't do that, and not just big stars either: ie Jeff Green. Porzingis is the rare player that wants to be great, and he is making a difference in New York, but I can name another 100 guys that are all about stats.

 

Players who play the right way builds a culture: that's my goal for this team. Nothing more.

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You're right...we do differ. Because I am not going to act like this group was difference makers their first few years in league. It literally took getting an All NBA talent in his prime FOR FREE to get Mike and Marc out of the lottery. And as soon as ZBo declines, the team goes back.

 

I also know that extending multiple players past their prime is a recipe for disaster if you are paying them top dollar and have no youth for them to supplement.

 

Couldn't agree more. 

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You're right...we do differ. Because I am not going to act like this group was difference makers their first few years in league. It literally took getting an All NBA talent in his prime FOR FREE to get Mike and Marc out of the lottery. And as soon as ZBo declines, the team goes back.

 

 

Ugh. Never looked at it like that before, but that's hard to argue against.

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the problem isn't our best players- they are the ones keeping us competitive - its the lack of talent overall that hurts us. 

 

Carmello, Kobe, Tmac, Klove, Bosh, Garnett,etc have all been on lottery teams. Even DWade needs a superstar or two to pair with or is in lottery.

 

Im not comparing mike and marc to those guys just saying that just because they aren't good enough to carry a roster of one dimensional scrubs doesn't mean they aren't winners.

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Quite frankly I don't care if any of the core 4 retire as Grizzlies especially since they haven't even sniffed the finals since being together. Although I believe this is the deepest team we've seen with Wright healthy I want at least one of them traded by the deadline. I know a lot of b-ball fans here in Tennessee and I haven't meant anyone that deems these guys as specially coveted and forever etched in their hearts and sole as I've seen on these boards. I believe the commercials and promotional whatever's means nothing as far as the occasional fan goes. The view is getting hideous and I want a change of scenery. I almost puke whenever I see them four on the same floor together. Too many bad memories with these guys. Just when you think we're going for gold We lose to OKC after being up 2 games or Z-bo gets suspended for a game 7 that we had or we get swept in 4 games to the Spurs. We can move Z-bo and be fine

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember KBM saying Porzingis wasn't that good / not a franchise player a few months ago. Then, someone pointed out (I believe it was X) that he would come back and change his mind about it lol. Well, looks like it happened. 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember KBM saying Porzingis wasn't that good / not a franchise player a few months ago. Then, someone pointed out (I believe it was X) that he would come back and change his mind about it lol. Well, looks like it happened. 

 

 

You are wrong. I never said prozingis wasn't good. Also, X says every lottery pick is the next Magic Johnson. He once said that Mike Conley would have more assists than John Stockton. Yeah he said it. If you say it that much you bound to get one of the picks right. lol

 

as far as porzingis I have consistently been pretty high on the kid. To take a jab at X, I said that porzingis is the second coming of Pau Gasol, who X ran outta town well before the front office traded him. But that's about the worst I said about him.

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I found the posts. You definitely were not talking Porzingis up like you are now. Basically measuring him to Lebron and saying he would never be a superstar. I'm using mobile, but if you look at your posts from like Nov 25th, you'll see it. I even stated back then you would come back in a month saying he'll be the next Dirk. Lol

 

So, you go from saying the guy has NO chance at superstardom, to being high on him and saying he's one of the players that can be a difference maker for this team. I'm just trying to figure out your stance on the guy.

 

 

Neither one of those guys are close to superstars and don't even get me started. You know what lebron was doing in his second season and first seasons. These guys ain't that. So essentially you'd be trading one skillset for another skillset. You aren't going to be trading a good player for a young superstar, pleassee

This was just one of the comments.

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I found the posts. You definitely were not talking Porzingis up like you are now. Basically measuring him to Lebron and saying he would never be a superstar. I'm using mobile, but if you look at your posts from like Nov 25th, you'll see it. I even stated back then you would come back in a month saying he'll be the next Dirk. Lol

 

So, you go from saying the guy has NO chance at superstardom, to being high on him and saying he's one of the players that can be a difference maker for this team. I'm just trying to figure out your stance on the guy.

 

 

This was just one of the comments.

 

 

Do you think Pau Gasol was a generational talent?

 

I certainly don't think porzingis is going to be a Lebron James type, Kobe type, Curry type, Magic Johnson type.

 

I also think that Pau was a difference maker. I think Lilliard is a difference maker, but I don't think either of them are going to be lebron james either (which I consider generational talent).

 

for Porzingis to be generational talent, he would have to have the quickness of hakeem (the shooting ability of dirk) and I don't see that with him. Those are the models I use for him, not lebron, anyway.

 

I'll go on record to say that I think Ben Simmons has a chance to be a generational talent. But again, understand what I am saying. There are players who are better and want to be great and actually MAKE differences with their team--and they don't have to be generational talents and porzingis IS that. 

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While I don't totally agree with KBM, I believe in the core four and what they bring to this team. Even off the bench Zach is a strong contributor, the "out of his funk" Tony Allen is now the one we've come to love, and Marc and Mike make the wheels go round. Should they stay forever, No.

But it's the near $21,000,000 the team has tied up in Jeff, VC, Jam, Ennis, & Courtney that's the real issue for right now. Both Jalen Rose and Barry said the very same thing during the MLK game. 

To tear this team down would kill the fan base. We need to take a page out the Spurs book and learn to continue adding the right pieces without decimating the team.

Lastly, the other problem to me seems to be Joerger. He's not the motivator to keep things rolling with passion and to get the most out of the players to win at all cost. We need a better coach. I hated it when Hollins left, but I was willing to roll with Joerger, but I think that experiment has ended. I had high hopes for Wallace because he wants to be here, so it seems, but it may be time to make that change as well. Also, it worries me that Pera is so silent. Where is he?

So let Zach and Tony finish their contracts unless something wonderful that makes us much better comes along and moves us forward and not laterally. Resign Conley, extend Barnes and Chalmers.

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The next time someone compares our core to Parker, Manu and Duncan I'm going to do something unimaginably horrible.

 

As for the thread Memphians are still kinda  pro sport virgins I guess since the Grizz have only been here 15 years. It's very rare for 1 player let alone an entire group of players to play out the end of thier careers on the same team. If they leave we will be fine. Other good players will come and the team will be good again. Everything will be ok

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If you're referring to what I wrote, read it again. I never compared our core to the Spurs Big 3, but it's their ability to hold on to what they have and yet become better without blowing up the team. I implied to let Tony and Zach finish their contracts which is only one more year; not forever.

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While I don't totally agree with KBM, I believe in the core four and what they bring to this team. Even off the bench Zach is a strong contributor, the "out of his funk" Tony Allen is now the one we've come to love, and Marc and Mike make the wheels go round. Should they stay forever, No.

But it's the near $21,000,000 the team has tied up in Jeff, VC, Jam, Ennis, & Courtney that's the real issue for right now. Both Jalen Rose and Barry said the very same thing during the MLK game. 

To tear this team down would kill the fan base. We need to take a page out the Spurs book and learn to continue adding the right pieces without decimating the team.

Lastly, the other problem to me seems to be Joerger. He's not the motivator to keep things rolling with passion and to get the most out of the players to win at all cost. We need a better coach. I hated it when Hollins left, but I was willing to roll with Joerger, but I think that experiment has ended. I had high hopes for Wallace because he wants to be here, so it seems, but it may be time to make that change as well. Also, it worries me that Pera is so silent. Where is he?

So let Zach and Tony finish their contracts unless something wonderful that makes us much better comes along and moves us forward and not laterally. Resign Conley, extend Barnes and Chalmers.

completely agree on joerger and spurs part.  Not to say that joerger isnt a good coach, but I think the fit is just not right. the grizz should move on from him and hire someone who can get more out of the guys. I think Mario Elie might be a good candidate. He is a 3-time champ as a player, and was an assistant coach under greg pop for a while. I think with his resume he can get more out of the guys. 

As for the spurs part, this is also why im suggesting the FO sign a young guy with the physical tools(height&length) and develop them. Guys like D.Inglis, Crabbe and caboclo  seems like they can develop into something with the right atmosphere.

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