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Kevin B Moses

I Guess I'm In The Minority Because I Want Mike, Marc, Zach And Tony To Retire As Grizzlies

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It is becoming apparent that this franchise is in business mode. I do not think the plan is to win a championship as the #1 motivation. This can be figured out by the fact that Chris Wallace still has his job.

 

That's ok with me. I just know now where to put the Grizzlies as far as my attention and my $$$. I don't find mediocre sports franchises without championship aspirations entertaining at all. Which has been why I have trouble watching a Grizzlies game from start to finish. Team is boring and going nowhere.

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If you have an old breaking down car would you continue to add to it(new sound system, wheels, paint job etc even though it can break down any day or do you trade it in/sell it and buy a newer car?

 

Do you just continue to drive it until it finally quits? What makes the most sense?

You drive it till it quits, they won't give anything for it as a trade in.

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It is becoming apparent that this franchise is in business mode. I do not think the plan is to win a championship as the #1 motivation. This can be figured out by the fact that Chris Wallace still has his job.

That's ok with me. I just know now where to put the Grizzlies as far as my attention and my $$$. I don't find mediocre sports franchises without championship aspirations entertaining at all. Which has been why I have trouble watching a Grizzlies game from start to finish. Team is boring and going nowhere.

Yep.

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It is becoming apparent that this franchise is in business mode. I do not think the plan is to win a championship as the #1 motivation. This can be figured out by the fact that Chris Wallace still has his job.

 

That's ok with me. I just know now where to put the Grizzlies as far as my attention and my $$$. I don't find mediocre sports franchises without championship aspirations entertaining at all. Which has been why I have trouble watching a Grizzlies game from start to finish. Team is boring and going nowhere.

 

100% truth. 

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It is becoming apparent that this franchise is in business mode. I do not think the plan is to win a championship as the #1 motivation. This can be figured out by the fact that Chris Wallace still has his job.

 

That's ok with me. I just know now where to put the Grizzlies as far as my attention and my $$$. I don't find mediocre sports franchises without championship aspirations entertaining at all. Which has been why I have trouble watching a Grizzlies game from start to finish. Team is boring and going nowhere.

Yea can't argue with this logic at all.

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we are going to the playoffs again

 

 

 

not trying to sugar coat FO's miscues but were complaining about a perennial playoff team

 

 

lets keep some perspective

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You drive it till it quits, they won't give anything for it as a trade in.

Makes no sense at all. Well.... Unless your intent is to only go around the block a few times.

 

That's why you trade it before its value is completely gone. Why keep getting stuck?

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we are going to the playoffs again

 

 

 

not trying to sugar coat FO's miscues but were complaining about a perennial playoff team

 

 

lets keep some perspective

The Gasol/Battier/Miller core was a perennial playoff team too but people act like that time was horrible. 

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we are going to the playoffs again

 

 

 

not trying to sugar coat FO's miscues but were complaining about a perennial playoff team

 

 

lets keep some perspective

It's not that I'm complaining about being a perennial playoff team. It is seeing the future and wanting to be proactive instead of reactive. This team has very obviously regressed. Given the age of the team, they are not going to bounce back. There are three ways the team can deal with:

1) do nothing- pretend everything is fine and ride this team until it flames out. Then they rebuild with little to no assets due to trades and poor drafting

2) make changes around the edges- would stay in the playoffs a few additional years but with no hope of ever being anything more than mediocre

3) overhaul- understand that the team has no future assets of value, trade players that still have value in order to build for the future, and make the rebuilding process less lengthy

 

I choose option 3. It is what the Boston Celtics did a few years back. They are already back in the playoffs with a whole treasure trove of future assets to continue building for the future. It's also what the Grizzlies did when they realized the Pau version of this team had plateaued. Three years later they began the greatest stretch in team history.

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It's not that I'm complaining about being a perennial playoff team. It is seeing the future and wanting to be proactive instead of reactive. This team has very obviously regressed. Given the age of the team, they are not going to bounce back. There are three ways the team can deal with:

1) do nothing- pretend everything is fine and ride this team until it flames out. Then they rebuild with little to no assets due to trades and poor drafting

2) make changes around the edges- would stay in the playoffs a few additional years but with no hope of ever being anything more than mediocre

3) overhaul- understand that the team has no future assets of value, trade players that still have value in order to build for the future, and make the rebuilding process less lengthy

 

I choose option 3. It is what the Boston Celtics did a few years back. They are already back in the playoffs with a whole treasure trove of future assets to continue building for the future. It's also what the Grizzlies did when they realized the Pau version of this team had plateaued. Three years later they began the greatest stretch in team history.

 

 

Let me ask you a question, what teams are going to be interested in Marc and Mike? The ones that have a shot at the title. Not the teams that are in the lottery.

 

You ARE regressing by trading Mike and Marc. The team that is not regressing is the team that gets them. IE when the Lakers got Pau. You want to be a farm team for other teams to win a championship be my guess: but don't call it progressing, it's the very oppose of that.

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Let me ask you a question, what teams are going to be interested in Marc and Mike? The ones that have a shot at the title. Not the teams that are in the lottery.

 

You ARE regressing by trading Mike and Marc. The team that is not regressing is the team that gets them. IE when the Lakers got Pau. You want to be a farm team for other teams to win a championship be my guess: but don't call it progressing, it's the very oppose of that.

I'm not worried about other teams. I'm worried about the Grizzlies. The teams that will give up the most are the teams that are closest to the title and think Mike or Marc would put them over the top. That's how you get two first round picks for a very average Mozgov. It's how Boston owns what seems like all of Brooklyn's future.

 

I do understand that trading Mike and Marc would cause us to go backwards. We are already headed backwards though. The question is how to move forward. I don't know who is willing to trade for Mike or Marc. I do know if I was the GM I would know the answer to that question though. Also I'm not advocating giving those players away. If no one wants to give you anything of value, then don't trade. However I got to believe those teams looking to take the next step would give up some nice bounties.

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I'm not worried about other teams. I'm worried about the Grizzlies. The teams that will give up the most are the teams that are closest to the title and think Mike or Marc would put them over the top. That's how you get two first round picks for a very average Mozgov. It's how Boston owns what seems like all of Brooklyn's future.

 

I do understand that trading Mike and Marc would cause us to go backwards. We are already headed backwards though. The question is how to move forward. I don't know who is willing to trade for Mike or Marc. I do know if I was the GM I would know the answer to that question though. Also I'm not advocating giving those players away. If no one wants to give you anything of value, then don't trade. However I got to believe those teams looking to take the next step would give up some nice bounties.

Very well put.

There is no doubt that every fan is in agreement that the team absolutely needs to get better. There are different paths with different decisions needed for each path. Talking about it here is a good thing, whether we agree with one path or not.

Good post, and thanks Isugrizzfan.

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Very well put.

There is no doubt that every fan is in agreement that the team absolutely needs to get better. There are different paths with different decisions needed for each path. Talking about it here is a good thing, whether we agree with one path or not.

Good post, and thanks Isugrizzfan.

 

 

you go backwards when you pass up on good players in the draft. Not when your players have a bad season. again, a star can be found anywhere in the draft. You gain nothing by trading mike and marc.

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you go backwards when you pass up on good players in the draft. Not when your players have a bad season. again, a star can be found anywhere in the draft. You gain nothing by trading mike and marc.

C'mon KBM, no single answer is flawless and without possible disaster. They all are. Doing nothing with a roster heavy with players in or past their primes is the most risky IMO though.

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C'mon KBM, no single answer is flawless and without possible disaster. They all are. Doing nothing with a roster heavy with players in or past their primes is the most risky IMO though.

 

 

Trading away players that are establish, never ever works, to win a championship with. Never works.

 

In that Nets deal, Boston got a bunch a guys-- a 2014 pick (james young), a 2018 pick (probably won't be a high pick) and this pick this year.

 

If they get Ben Simmons with it, then they got a great deal, but really it all rests on this pick.

 

If the spurs don't draft Tony and Manu late when they already had Duncan, the don't win as many championship as they won. I fail to see the benefit of trading a great player for high draft picks or young players.

 

When the lakers traded Divac for Kobe, the lakers KNEW they had Shaq in the bag. So they could gamble a bit on it. 

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So you just going to ignore the Spurs trading for Leonard.

 

The Warriors trading away David Lee to let Green play.

 

Also, you have yet to tell me what team won a championship with a nucleus of 30 year old non-AllStars.

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So you just going to ignore the Spurs trading for Leonard.

 

The Warriors trading away David Lee to let Green play.

 

Also, you have yet to tell me what team won a championship with a nucleus of 30 year old non-AllStars.

 

 

They didn't trade Manu, Parker or Duncan for him. And he was also a middle round pick. David Lee wasn't even being played when they traded him.

 

Also, I know you love to bash our players as if they are terrible, but Marc Gasol has been voted in the top 10 players in the league 2 years running by the ESPN poll.

 

While players like Anthony Davis can't even get his team above .500 this year.

 

I'm not saying the grizzlies are a perfect team they aren't. But to want to trade away this team for some pie in the sky player, or just because you don't have faith that the grizzlies can improve this team is absolutely the epitome of farm team mentality.

 

You don't draft a superstar and instantly go to the finals. Kd and westbrook got there once. Also, when the spurs won their last two championship, they didn't have a superstar on their team. And they beat teams who had superstars. 

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Also, when the spurs won their last two championship, they didn't have a superstar on their team. And they beat teams who had superstars. 

 

Tell me you had another team in mind. 

 

One that didn't have Tim Duncan on it. 26302 points, 19.2 ppg, 10.9 Rpg, career 50.6 FG%, 4172 assists, 2991 blocks 

Recently touted by several sources as the second greatest player ever. 

 

And that's being unkind to Tony Parker, 17536 points, career 49.5%

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Tell me you had another team in mind. 

 

One that didn't have Tim Duncan on it. 26302 points, 19.2 ppg, 10.9 Rpg, career 50.6 FG%, 4172 assists, 2991 blocks 

Recently touted by several sources as the second greatest player ever. 

 

And that's being unkind to Tony Parker, 17536 points, career 49.5%

 

 

That's career duncan. Not 2014 playoff duncan. That's career paker, not 2014 playoff parker. 

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you go backwards when you pass up on good players in the draft. Not when your players have a bad season. again, a star can be found anywhere in the draft. You gain nothing by trading mike and marc.

It'd be one thing if I thought they were having bad years. I feel like they are on the downside of their career.

 

I will say you are correct in part of our slide is the continuous inability to draft. That still doesn't solve the issue of what to do going forward.

 

My big fear is we make the playoffs this year, keep this "core" together, and continue to slide next year. Then we miss the playoffs, give a lottery pick to Denver, missing a chance to add real talent with that pick. Our players have continued the downward arc of their career and we can't get much value for them. Then we are an annual lottery team but only make one lottery pick before sending another lottery pick out (this time to Boston). What we will be then is a crappy lottery team who has no way to add value. And we are willing to keep this core together, making this scenario a real possibility for what? Sentimental reasons? It's definitely not for championships aspirations. Even if we find a star at the middle to back end of the draft, it's three to four years before they become a true star. By then Mike and Marc are completely washed up.

 

Worst place to be in professional sports is the middle. Not good enough to win anything of significance. Not bad enough to have access to top talent.

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It'd be one thing if I thought they were having bad years. I feel like they are on the downside of their career.

 

I will say you are correct in part of our slide is the continuous inability to draft. That still doesn't solve the issue of what to do going forward.

 

My big fear is we make the playoffs this year, keep this "core" together, and continue to slide next year. Then we miss the playoffs, give a lottery pick to Denver, missing a chance to add real talent with that pick. Our players have continued the downward arc of their career and we can't get much value for them. Then we are an annual lottery team but only make one lottery pick before sending another lottery pick out (this time to Boston). What we will be then is a crappy lottery team who has no way to add value. And we are willing to keep this core together, making this scenario a real possibility for what? Sentimental reasons? It's definitely not for championships aspirations. Even if we find a star at the middle to back end of the draft, it's three to four years before they become a true star. By then Mike and Marc are completely washed up.

 

Worst place to be in professional sports is the middle. Not good enough to win anything of significance. Not bad enough to have access to top talent.

Reminds me of an article I read a few years ago about the Bucks. Over the ten seasons prior to the article, the Bucks had been a .500 team during that span. Their F.O. didn't just settle for mediocrity, they embraced it. For me, it's very hard to be all in on a plan to be mediocre, and I believe the team, as it is now, is headed for that if not there already.

I'd rather roll the dice than settle.

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Worst place to be in professional sports is the middle. Not good enough to win anything of significance. Not bad enough to have access to top talent.

 

Your only in the middle if you don't improve, that means with coaching drafting front office -- everything.

 

The grizzlies have top talent. They just need more of it. It took hakeem 9 years to win a title. It took Jordan 7 years. Along the way, they had to BUILD a team around those guys.

 

KD is in his 9th year with no title in sight.

 

Most of ya'll, but especially X, look at the grizzlies and say well they are doomed because none of the players developed into superstars. But there are plenty of superstars in the same boat as the grizzlies right now.

 

Nobody knows what the future holds, but the grizzlies have a great core, that much I do know. They just need to add to it.

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Grizzlies don't have a GREAT anything. Yeah, it takes time to build a team. This team has stalled out. This team does not even have an All Star on it right now. Let alone a HOF level talent.

 

I mean if you want to compare Marc Gasol to Hakeem, Jordan and KD...that just means you have zero perspective.

 

Our situation is more like Atlanta. You see how they retooled around Horford. That's our best case. Worst case is Indy except trying to build around Roy Hibbert.

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