Jump to content


Photo

What In The World?


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#41 Zappastache

Zappastache

    Rookie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 84 posts

Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:23 PM

Well, he did have surgery Jan. 12, didn't he? I can't imagine him being ready to go NBA-level in 4 weeks. 

 

Whoa i didn't even realize this. Thought he just had the one surgery this summer and that was it...

 

Looked it up and apparently the timetable after the surgery was 6 weeks so maybe he'll be back soon. We can hope...



#42 Southern Dreadz

Southern Dreadz

    1st Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,547 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mem-10
  • Interests:I dunno...how does your momma look? She might interest me.

Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:25 PM

Basically FO telling the coach he will not lose his job if priority is placed on developing a draft pick.

 

 

A huge crux of the problem as I think Vernon and/or Hasseltine were delineating on the radio. Joerger, in his 3rd season, is the 4th most tenured coach in the Western conference. It especially doesn't help when Kerr comes in with NEVER before coaching at all and his team wins the championship and is poised the next season to do so again while also breaking the record for the number of wins in a single season.

 

There is little oo no incentive to spend time developing young players. There is only the incentive to try to win as many games now, in the short term. Tomorrow and next season matters not one single bit when the coach's future is so dependent upon winning now.



#43 GrizzTigerFan

GrizzTigerFan

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,363 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:53 PM

A huge crux of the problem as I think Vernon and/or Hasseltine were delineating on the radio. Joerger, in his 3rd season, is the 4th most tenured coach in the Western conference. It especially doesn't help when Kerr comes in with NEVER before coaching at all and his team wins the championship and is poised the next season to do so again while also breaking the record for the number of wins in a single season.

 

There is little oo no incentive to spend time developing young players. There is only the incentive to try to win as many games now, in the short term. Tomorrow and next season matters not one single bit when the coach's future is so dependent upon winning now.

Right.  But the biggest irony of all is that the last two championship teams were full of Star players that were drafted and developed by that team.   Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Manu, and Kawhi.   Warriors: Steph, Thompson, Harrison, Ezeli, and Draymond.   So obviously it is well worth the time.  Not even considering our two best players were basically drafted by the team (Mike and Marc).    It has been proven time and time again that the most likely route to acquiring a Star player is thru development. 



#44 OG_Proof

OG_Proof

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,762 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:HOME

Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:55 PM

It is extremely unlikely for Adams to be better than Hood at this point simply based on opportunity. Hood not only sees the floor regularly, they actually put the ball in his hands and let him make plays. This experience will prove to be invaluable. It's the only way to develop into a playmaker. Even if Adams gets on the court for the Grizzlies, he will likely be relegated to a spot shooter and 2 or 3 dribble guy. Can anyone actually see Dave running a pick and roll for Adams like they do for Hood? I can't. At this point, his career niche as a spot shooter will become carved in stone as it does for most players.


I wouldnt say extremely unlikely bro. This offseason could be one of high-turnover.

#45 Dwash

Dwash

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,613 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:56 PM

I wouldnt say extremely unlikely bro. This offseason could be one of high-turnover.


Im not saying thats impossible but I mostly expect this same blueprint to return next year.

#46 ThrobbingGrizzHater

ThrobbingGrizzHater

    2nd Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:a realm not physical

Posted 10 February 2016 - 04:57 PM

A huge crux of the problem as I think Vernon and/or Hasseltine were delineating on the radio. Joerger, in his 3rd season, is the 4th most tenured coach in the Western conference. It especially doesn't help when Kerr comes in with NEVER before coaching at all and his team wins the championship and is poised the next season to do so again while also breaking the record for the number of wins in a single season.

 

There is little oo no incentive to spend time developing young players. There is only the incentive to try to win as many games now, in the short term. Tomorrow and next season matters not one single bit when the coach's future is so dependent upon winning now.

The notion that Dave's only incentive is to win now by any means is completely speculative. If the players are with him more than we'll ever be and all of them seem to have respect for him or he wouldn't be in his 3rd season with the team.



#47 OG_Proof

OG_Proof

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,762 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:HOME

Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:11 PM

Im not saying thats impossible but I mostly expect this same blueprint to return next year.


It will be, with Jarell Martin gradually phasing out Z-Bo...key word "gradually".

#48 Teddy.B

Teddy.B

    1st Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,004 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:50 PM

Jarell Martin will not get regular minutes on an NBA roster; much less so with Joerger as coach. Martin is another stupid Wallace pipe dream.

At this point, I have to think Adams is unlikely to ever develop with this team as well. Memphis with Wallace has a history of giving up on their own draft picks because he is always second guessing himself or getting pushed around.

#49 fanboyslim

fanboyslim

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,559 posts

Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:25 AM

This is the essence of the problem.   Conley developed into the player he is today because he was given meaningful minutes in games and allowed to play thru mistakes. 

And the coach and the FO were slammed for applying the MCNCC to him. No matter what we do, expect griping.



#50 OG_Proof

OG_Proof

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,762 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:HOME

Posted 11 February 2016 - 06:05 AM

Jarell Martin will not get regular minutes on an NBA roster; much less so with Joerger as coach. Martin is another stupid Wallace pipe dream.

At this point, I have to think Adams is unlikely to ever develop with this team as well. Memphis with Wallace has a history of giving up on their own draft picks because he is always second guessing himself or getting pushed around.


It's too early to give up on Adams and way too early to give up on Martin.

#51 ThrobbingGrizzHater

ThrobbingGrizzHater

    2nd Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:a realm not physical

Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:43 AM

Conley being such a high pick was already projected to be given time on the court for development. Their was also not very much in front of him on the depth chart. I don't understand why people compare Conley's oppurtunity to our young guys when they are no such project as what Mike was back then

#52 GrizzTigerFan

GrizzTigerFan

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,363 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:46 AM

And the coach and the FO were slammed for applying the MCNCC to him. No matter what we do, expect griping.

Of course there will always be some that disagree.  Mainly the belief was that he wasn't worth the time investment.    "No Compete Clause" was just another way to ensure all the development time went to Conley and not derail his progress.    Wallace would need to institute a similar philosophy to get Dave to give any young guys some burn.   IE:  if we truly wanted Adams to develop then we should've traded CLee or Tony last year.      Back when Lionel was here the NCC was used to help Conley gain confidence now with Dave it would be used to simply force him to play the player we want to develop.



#53 GrizzTigerFan

GrizzTigerFan

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,363 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 February 2016 - 08:53 AM

Conley being such a high pick was already projected to be given time on the court for development. Their was also not very much in front of him on the depth chart. I don't understand why people compare Conley's oppurtunity to our young guys when they are no such project as what Mike was back then

When TWroten was here we badly needed a backup PG.  Lionel choose not to develop him.   Adams first year we badly needed a shooter/creator and Joerger choose not to play him.   Technically based off of need those guys didn't have much in front of them either.  

 

The reason Conley is brought up is because he is really the only guy developed successfully as a Grizz.   So he should be used as the template for how to develop.    Instead the organization has not emulated that path for development and are trying another one (Dleague, practice) that has yet to show results in 6 years. 



#54 Southern Dreadz

Southern Dreadz

    1st Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,547 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mem-10
  • Interests:I dunno...how does your momma look? She might interest me.

Posted 11 February 2016 - 09:13 AM

The notion that Dave's only incentive is to win now by any means is completely speculative. If the players are with him more than we'll ever be and all of them seem to have respect for him or he wouldn't be in his 3rd season with the team.

 

That was more of an indictment of the trend in coaching as opposed to Dave in particular. Just like star players are developed over time, so too are systems. However, because there is virtually no patience in sports anymore if a team and a coach does not produce right  away then the fans, and by extension owners, are quick to toss everything aside. The unfortunate byproduct of such thinking is instability which only makes the problem worse, not better.

 

Just to throw in a wrinkle I would say it is better to recognize what is not working as early as possible and make changes quickly. This relies upon being correct in the assessment that what 'is' is truly not going to work if given sufficient time.



#55 ThrobbingGrizzHater

ThrobbingGrizzHater

    2nd Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:a realm not physical

Posted 11 February 2016 - 09:32 AM

When TWroten was here we badly needed a backup PG.  Lionel choose not to develop him.   Adams first year we badly needed a shooter/creator and Joerger choose not to play him.   Technically based off of need those guys didn't have much in front of them either.  
 
The reason Conley is brought up is because he is really the only guy developed successfully as a Grizz.   So he should be used as the template for how to develop.    Instead the organization has not emulated that path for development and are trying another one (Dleague, practice) that has yet to show results in 6 years.


I understand where your coming from but to say that they chose not to develop those guys are a little dismissive. I believe the coaches trust in the player has more to do with it and what Southern Dreadz just said about patience

#56 ThrobbingGrizzHater

ThrobbingGrizzHater

    2nd Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:a realm not physical

Posted 11 February 2016 - 09:41 AM

That was more of an indictment of the trend in coaching as opposed to Dave in particular. Just like star players are developed over time so too are systems. However, because there is virtually no patience in sports anymore  if a team and a coach does not produce right then the fans, and by extension owners, are quick to toss everything aside. The unfortunate byproduct of such thinking is instability which only makes the problem worse, not better.
 
Just to throw in a wrinkle I would say it is better to recognize what is not working as early as possible and made changes quickly. This too relies upon being correct in the assessment that what 'is' is truly not going to work if given sufficient time.


To your point the organization was just about to give up on Mike but Marc had a talk with them to make sure that didn't happen

Here is an article I remember reading last year
http://nba.nbcsports...de-mike-conley/

#57 GrizzTigerFan

GrizzTigerFan

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,363 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 February 2016 - 10:20 AM

I understand where your coming from but to say that they chose not to develop those guys are a little dismissive. I believe the coaches trust in the player has more to do with it and what Southern Dreadz just said about patience

 

Well Lionel told FO that he could develop Conley then he put in the time to backup his claim.   Because of that i can say that LH choose to develop him.  

 Joerger stated when he first got the gig that he would develop TWroten by giving him minutes and allowing him to play thru mistakes.    Then FO promptly traded him so they can be rightly accused of not having patience needed to develop players..    



#58 ThrobbingGrizzHater

ThrobbingGrizzHater

    2nd Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:a realm not physical

Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:27 PM

Well Lionel told FO that he could develop Conley then he put in the time to backup his claim.   Because of that i can say that LH choose to develop him.  
 Joerger stated when he first got the gig that he would develop TWroten by giving him minutes and allowing him to play thru mistakes.    Then FO promptly traded him so they can be rightly accused of not having patience needed to develop players..


How I do I know that's what Hollins and Jeorger said do you have proof like I have with my claims with the link to the article that is posted above you. I believe your accusations about the F.O are false also.

#59 GrizzTigerFan

GrizzTigerFan

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,363 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:17 PM

How I do I know that's what Hollins and Jeorger said do you have proof like I have with my claims with the link to the article that is posted above you. I believe your accusations about the F.O are false also.

 

You probably haven't been following Grizz long enough but it is well known that the reason LH got the HC job was because Lionel convinced Heisley he could develop Conley.   

 

Joerger's comments were made during an interview in the offseason when he first got his job.     Feel free to not believe me. 



#60 TimBC

TimBC

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Westminster, BC, Canada

Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:26 PM

Jarell Martin will not get regular minutes on an NBA roster; much less so with Joerger as coach. Martin is another stupid Wallace pipe dream.

 

He might well be the next Lawrence Roberts. But there's still a chance he could become good.  Tony Allen was drafted #25, same as Martin.  Also picked 20-25: Butler, Parker, Afflalo, Rondo, Lowry.

 

http://www.nba.com/m...r-based-history
  says there's an 0.8% chance of getting an all-star at #25

 

but http://www.nytimes.c...rgain.html?_r=0

 says "Players selected between the 21st and 30th picks of the first round since 2004 have proved roughly as productive as those chosen between the 11th and 20th"

 

Summary: At 25, you know you're rolling the dice. But enough 25s succeed that you have to give them all a chance.