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Marc Gasol 2015-2016 Season Outlook


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#61 Wells

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Posted Yesterday, 03:51 PM

People bring up Lebron, Nowitski, Nash, Bowen, etc., and this doesn't work.  These are hall of famers.  If Marc stays on his current path and plays for 6 more years at his current stats, he will be known as a great player, not a hall of famer.

 

The question could be, are Lebron/Nowitski/Nash hall of famers because they played great, or because they played great after age 30?

 

I don't see Marc's stats getting better this year or next, not to say he isn't valuable.

Actually, with the success he has had overseas, in the ACB and with the Spanish National Team, throw in a few more solid years with the Grizzlies, and Marc probably makes the Hall of Fame.



#62 TheProof

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Posted Yesterday, 05:31 PM

You just don't want to admit you are wrong. You keep trying to defend your position that NBA players are better in their 30's, or some are, than when they are younger and that's just nuts. When has any Pro athlete ever said that they were not at their best when in their prime, which is their peak physical years?
Stats prove it and all pro athletes agree yet you want to claim otherwise.

I also see chip won't pass up a chance to remain petty. Way to go.

Wrong. The point was that players don't suddenly become worse once they turn 30 like you're suggesting Marc is gonna do starting this season. You MAY have had a point if Marc didn't show up last season in the best shape of his entire career, become an All-Star starter and 1st-team center all at the age of 30. Since he did all that, it's dumb to think he's suddenly gonna start sucking now. If you had said that about Conley, I wouldn't have had such an argument since his production, unlike Marc's, actually went down last season.

Since you're not listening to anybody else on the board trying to explain this point to you, let me ask you this question: If Marc was 27 years old, would you be making this same proclamation about him? Or is age the only thing you're basing this on? What exactly makes you believe Marc is going to enter the downside of his career now ouside of his age?

#63 PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

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Posted Yesterday, 06:13 PM

is it me or does this look nothing like gasol shooting form...maybe it just a thing he does in practice

 

 

gettyimages-482500868_master.jpg?itok=I5gettyimages-482500902_master.jpg?itok=Eo



#64 TheProof

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Posted Yesterday, 07:34 PM

It does look different, especially the bottom pick. He usually barely leaves the ground on his jumpshot.

#65 Father Pat

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Posted Yesterday, 07:35 PM

Wrong. The point was that players don't suddenly become worse once they turn 30 like you're suggesting Marc is gonna do starting this season.

No. I said players do not get better after 30. I said he is on the downward side of his career now and he is. All players over 30 are. They are past their physical peak. It doesn't START at 31, that is the point where 99% of NBA players are already in decline or starting. If I said all NBA players are washed up by age 40, are you going to harp that I'm saying they don't get washed up until they hit 40?
There is no NBA player that would ever say that he was better at any time in his 30's than at one point in his 20's, including your examples of Duncan, Dirk or LeBron. Can you honestly believe for one second that one of them would say "sure, I was at my best at 30 something"? No flippin way.

#66 PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

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Posted Yesterday, 10:26 PM

No. I said players do not get better after 30. I said he is on the downward side of his career now and he is. All players over 30 are. They are past their physical peak. It doesn't START at 31, that is the point where 99% of NBA players are already in decline or starting. If I said all NBA players are washed up by age 40, are you going to harp that I'm saying they don't get washed up until they hit 40?
There is no NBA player that would ever say that he was better at any time in his 30's than at one point in his 20's, including your examples of Duncan, Dirk or LeBron. Can you honestly believe for one second that one of them would say "sure, I was at my best at 30 something"? No flippin way.

is there any advance stats or something that supports that at exactly 30yrs old players start declining or are you basing this on the fact that your performance started decline exact at 30



#67 costarica2

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Posted Yesterday, 10:39 PM

Not a contract year..

So we might get fat Marc which is cool too.

#68 PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

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Posted Yesterday, 10:48 PM

Not a contract year..

So we might get fat Marc which is cool too.

looking at those pic it looks like he is still in great shape



#69 Father Pat

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Posted Yesterday, 11:01 PM

is there any advance stats or something that supports that at exactly 30yrs old players start declining or are you basing this on the fact that your performance started decline exact at 30

Good Lord.
Nowhere did I say that at exactly on a specific time, date, or age players start declining.

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

#70 TheProof

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Posted Today, 04:39 AM

No. I said players do not get better after 30. I said he is on the downward side of his career now and he is. All players over 30 are. They are past their physical peak. It doesn't START at 31, that is the point where 99% of NBA players are already in decline or starting. If I said all NBA players are washed up by age 40, are you going to harp that I'm saying they don't get washed up until they hit 40?
There is no NBA player that would ever say that he was better at any time in his 30's than at one point in his 20's, including your examples of Duncan, Dirk or LeBron. Can you honestly believe for one second that one of them would say "sure, I was at my best at 30 something"? No flippin way.


The fact that you didn't bother to reply to my entire post tells me everything I need to know.

#71 SC Grizz

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Posted Today, 05:44 AM

Nowhere did I say that at exactly on a specific time, date, or age players start declining.

 

 

It seemed to me like your entire point was that at age 30 all NBA players start declining?



#72 Father Pat

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Posted Today, 06:18 AM

Evidently ignorance is bliss. Most NBA players aren't even in the league after the age of 30, yet some want to hold onto the delusion that it isn't uncommon that players get better after the age of 30. Last season only 18% of all NBA players were over the age of 30. Where are all these guys that are getting better after 30?
Proof & SC, do the math and educate yourselves. Look over the stats of all the hall of famers and all stars. Learn something. Study some facts.

#73 Father Pat

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Posted Today, 06:38 AM

It seemed to me like your entire point was that at age 30 all NBA players start declining?

You seem like a nice enough guy, so find what I wrote that is confusing you, post the quote, and I'll walk you through it.

#74 TheProof

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Posted Today, 06:43 AM

Evidently ignorance is bliss. Most NBA players aren't even in the league after the age of 30, yet some want to hold onto the delusion that it isn't uncommon that players get better after the age of 30. Last season only 18% of all NBA players were over the age of 30. Where are all these guys that are getting better after 30?
Proof & SC, do the math and educate yourselves. Look over the stats of all the hall of famers and all stars. Learn something. Study some facts.

 

Until you fully respond to my last post, I'm not even gonna waste trying to explain over and over again why it makes no sense to say that a guy who was 24 years old as a rookie is suddenly gonna start declining just because he turned 30, especially after he just had the best season of his career.

 

You keep bringing up trends instead of looking at the guy you're actually making the statement about, and we tried to give you comparable examples but you're just not gettin it. Now you're up here talking about "educate yourself, learn something" Lmao. The irony is out of this world.



#75 Father Pat

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Posted Today, 07:08 AM

Until you fully respond to my last post, I'm not even gonna waste trying to explain over and over again why it makes no sense to say that a guy who was 24 years old as a rookie is suddenly gonna start declining just because he turned 30, especially after he just had the best season of his career.
 
You keep bringing up trends instead of looking at the guy you're actually making the statement about, and we tried to give you comparable examples but you're just not gettin it. Now you're up here talking about "educate yourself, learn something" Lmao. The irony is out of this world.

I had already answered your question in a previous post. Marc was a rookie at 24. So what? Sabonis was a rookie at 31, why didn't he keep getting better and better?
Re-read my posts and think. I didn't say Marc or anyone just gets bad when they hit a certain age. I said past the age of 30, players are almost always in or beginning their decline.
What you call "trends" is historical and physical facts. Almost all players have their best years in their mid to late 20's. That is undeniable fact.
Some other reasons Marc probably won't do as well next year are that he isn't exactly known for being in top shape, to put it nicely. Players often relax after contract years and have declining numbers. Did I mention that nearly all NBA players show decline after the age of 30? (Not to be confused with BAM!! - he turns into instant slug at age 31)

#76 SC Grizz

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Posted Today, 11:29 AM

You seem like a nice enough guy, so find what I wrote that is confusing you, post the quote, and I'll walk you through it.

 

 

Nowhere did I say that at exactly on a specific time, date, or age players start declining.
 

 

Did I mention that nearly all NBA players show decline after the age of 30? (Not to be confused with BAM!! - he turns into instant slug at age 31)

 

That is my confusion. I don't even have a dog in this fight. I am just trying to figure out what the argument you are trying to make actually is. 

 

Are we talking purely about stats? If we are, then I would tend to agree with you as a generalization most players have declining statistics after when they are in their 30s although there are probably some player who this is not true for. If we are talking about importance to their team / overall play then I think there are several examples that disprove this. Proof and others have already given several. 



#77 Father Pat

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Posted Today, 12:10 PM

That is my confusion. I don't even have a dog in this fight. I am just trying to figure out what the argument you are trying to make actually is. 
 
Are we talking purely about stats? If we are, then I would tend to agree with you as a generalization most players have declining statistics after when they are in their 30s although there are probably some player who this is not true for. If we are talking about importance to their team / overall play then I think there are several examples that disprove this. Proof and others have already given several.

Stats of course, but not only. That is beyond evident.
Most players decline physically as well. This is also very evident, but not as simple to see as the stats. Look at minutes per game. They often decline the same time. Read interviews and books about NBA players and you will often find in their own words how they just don't "bounce back" between games like they did in their 20's. The fact that around 90% of NBA players do not play past their 33rd year speaks volumns about this.
You point to Duncan as an example. He's not. He's one of the exceptions to the rule. He's one of the best players of all time, same as LeBron. You guys want to put Marc in that same conversation? C'mon.
Duncan has also had the luxury of being on the most stable, best run franchise for the last 2 decades, not to mention the talent surrounding him. All that makes it easier for him to age more gracefully basketball wise.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the rare times that players pick it up for a season or two when into their 30's is because of other factors such as better teammates added making things easier, new coaches and/or systems, among some. An excellent example is the Paul Westhead Nuggets 90/91. I always remember how he made Orlando Woolridge look like an all star with his 25 ppg. There was another player as well that scored about the same for that year because of Westheads coaching style. Short lived though.
The average NBA career is only around 4 1/2 years, which also very obviously says that the average NBA player doesn't even make it into his 30's in the league.
Even if you find half a dozen guys that pick it up for a season after they are 30, how many seasons and total players encompassed that half dozen? Quite a few.
At best you will find a few exceptions, and very few when put into context of the nearly 500 men that suit up in a NBA uniform every season.

#78 Allen

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Posted Today, 12:42 PM

I think Randolph, Allen and Gasol are going to have to completely fall off the cliff before people on here realize they are getting old.

#79 TheProof

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Posted Today, 01:05 PM

I had already answered your question in a previous post.

 

No. You didn't. I asked you a question hoping that a light bulb would go off in your head once you read it, to no avail. I'll take that as you either just don't pay attention to other people's post in full context, or you just don't care and are sticking to your guns regardless. Either way, it's cool man. I'm not gonna give you a hard time about it.

 

Stats of course, but not only. That is beyond evident.
Most players decline physically as well. This is also very evident, but not as simple to see as the stats. Look at minutes per game. They often decline the same time. Read interviews and books about NBA players and you will often find in their own words how they just don't "bounce back" between games like they did in their 20's. The fact that around 90% of NBA players do not play past their 33rd year speaks volumns about this.
You point to Duncan as an example. He's not. He's one of the exceptions to the rule. He's one of the best players of all time, same as LeBron. You guys want to put Marc in that same conversation? C'mon.
Duncan has also had the luxury of being on the most stable, best run franchise for the last 2 decades, not to mention the talent surrounding him. All that makes it easier for him to age more gracefully basketball wise.

 

You're still not understanding the whole point being made here, for whatever reason. Even if you were talking about stats and only stats, guys in the NBA aren't scoring points the way they were in the early 2000s when you had nearly 30 guys in the league averaging 20 points a game. It's more of a team game, that's why guys like Chris Bosh go from averaging 24 points a game to averaging 16 points a game on a championship team. It's not because he's "goin downward" as you'd imply.

 

What I'm actually referring to to begin with is actual impact and value for players' respective teams. You're not grasping this concept. Dirk Nowitzki had a higher PER at age 35 than he did at age 25. So that means he was better and more valuable in his 16th season than he was in his 6th season. Why is that? How is that possible if guys are supposed to be "goin downward" by the time their 30?

 

Could it be because Dirk depends more on his God-given skills and basketball IQ than he depends on, say, his athleticism which obviously declines with age? Couldn't that also be the case for Tim Duncan, who's just as important to his team's success now as he was a decade ago? Couldn't that have also been the case for Steve Nash who had his best seasons, won 2 MVP awards and was 1st team All-NBA all after turning 30? Couldn't that also end up being the case for Marc Gasol?



#80 PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

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Posted Today, 02:12 PM

Good Lord.
Nowhere did I say that at exactly on a specific time, date, or age players start declining.

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

domestic violence in nothing to joke about sir.