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We Will Never Be This Stacked Again!


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#1 BigBankHank662

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:27 AM

Our Cores' (Gay, Randolph, Gasol, Conley) salaries increase yearly. The new CBA will be more punitive when it comes to going over the cap. Not to doubt our front office, but due to salary Cap restrictions I don't see us ever having this much firepower again.

OJ looks like he's finally turned the corner and has played/is playing himself to a 8/10mill a year deal,

Mo has played/is playing himself into a nice deal,

Giblert is only 30 and is showing that he is at the least a mid level exception. If he goes Hibachi in the Playoffs some team may offer 8-10 mil for a few years.

Plus, although he's locked up through 2013, TA should be expiring next year and the FO may want to lock him back up. I am pretty sure that the best perimeter defender in the leauge will demand/be offered more than the 3 mil he's making now.

We have 3 players making near max money and Conley's contract. We are going to have to fill our roster with a lot of bargain basement talent. I have faith that CW will make some shrewd moves and keep us as contenders for the next 3 or 4 years. Heck we may catch lightning in a bottle and have a late first rounder or early second rounder turn out to be good or better than Mayo, Mo and Arenas. But just in case we dont, every Grizz fan should just sit back take a mental picture of just how stacked this team is and how much talent we have, because more than likely we will never see this again.

Our time is NOW!

#2 New_Sacred_Cow

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:49 AM

I have been thinking about this too. Honestly I think the only way to keep guys OJ, TA, Mo, and Arthur is to get Gay out and even Pargo to clear another 1M. I'm not knocking Rudy, but out of the core and their pricetag, he is the most expendable.

#3 Once_a_hater

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:52 AM

View PostNew_Sacred_Cow, on 11 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I have been thinking about this too. Honestly I think the only way to keep guys OJ, TA, Mo, and Arthur is to get Gay out and even Pargo to clear another 1M. I'm not knocking Rudy, but out of the core and their pricetag, he is the most expendable.

That's maybe truth... I think that Heinsley has a chance to go over the tax if we winh big this year but I could see a trade coming too... or we sign and trade OJ or we trade Rudy... if we gone trade OJ

#4 STS

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:55 AM

I hope OJ returns. If we can get rid of one of the larger salaries, we have enough to keep at least 2 more guys. Btw how much longer do we have Rudy?

#5 Once_a_hater

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:04 AM

View PostNew_Sacred_Cow, on 11 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I have been thinking about this too. Honestly I think the only way to keep guys OJ, TA, Mo, and Arthur is to get Gay out and even Pargo to clear another 1M. I'm not knocking Rudy, but out of the core and their pricetag, he is the most expendable.

That's maybe truth... I think that Heinsley has a chance to go over the tax if we winh big this year but I could see a trade coming too... or we sign and trade OJ or we trade Rudy... if we gone trade OJ we should work in package him + Speights and make one big trade for a Monroe type of player (but I don't know if Pistons will accept)... Rudy in the other hand is the trade that make more sense he is overpaid and with his contract we could work to keep OJ, Speights, DA and TA... the difference of this team is how deep we are; if we could work a trade to secure a pick to get the Kidd or Barnes + role player and resign those guys I'm fine with that.

But I still like our team better...

1- If we keep everybody

MC/Arenas/Selby
TA/OJ/our own 1st pick
Rudy/QP
Zbo/DA/Dante
Gasol/Speights/HH

2- If we trade OJ + Speights for Monroe

MC/Arenas/Selby
TA/our own 1st pick
Rudy/QP
Zbo/DA/Dante
Gasol/Monroe/HH

3 - If we trade Rudy for Ariza + pick

MC/Arenas/Selby
TA/OJ/our own 1st pick
Kidd or Barnes/Ariza/QP
Zbo/DA/Dante
Gasol/Speights/HH

#6 chipc3

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:16 AM

Do you people really want to get rid of the starting SF so we can keep a back up SG?

#7 Memphicity Design

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:20 AM

View Postchipc3, on 11 April 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Do you people really want to get rid of the starting SF so we can keep a back up SG?

I am not bashing Rudy but his contract is very high and it limits us from doing more than just keeping OJ (who would start on almost any other team) So just saying letting go a starter to keep a bench player isn't a fair assessment of the situation. Every thing isn't black and white, sometimes you have to look in the grey area.

I would rather let Rudy go if it meant keeping 2-3 out of these 4 players: OJ, Mo, DA and Arenas

#8 Notorious O.D.K.

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:22 AM

View PostNew_Sacred_Cow, on 11 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I have been thinking about this too. Honestly I think the only way to keep guys OJ, TA, Mo, and Arthur is to get Gay out and even Pargo to clear another 1M. I'm not knocking Rudy, but out of the core and their pricetag, he is the most expendable.

Interesting perspective considering that Grizz have their best record ever with Rudy as the leading scorer, Z-Bo missing a large part of the season(and may never be his old self after tearing his MCL at 31 years old) and an injury-prone DA not playing a single game yet Rudy is the most expendable? Why do we need to keep OJ and DA? I like DA and all but what exactly does he bring that Mo Speights and Cunningham don't bring?Same for Arenas and OJ. Arenas does exactly what we want OJ to do which is knock down 3 ptrs and he's better at it than OJ.

Things will work themselves out, but I see no reason to get rid of Gay, considering he had no off-season to get his rhythm back, to hold on to bench players. I like the depth but I don't see both Cunningham and DA on this team next year nor do I see both Arenas and OJ on this team next year. Arenas will be a much cheaper option than OJ.

#9 BHZMAFIA

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

View PostNotorious O.D.K., on 11 April 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Interesting perspective considering that Grizz have their best record ever with Rudy as the leading scorer, Z-Bo missing a large part of the season(and may never be his old self after tearing his MCL at 31 years old) and an injury-prone DA not playing a single game yet Rudy is the most expendable? Why do we need to keep OJ and DA? I like DA and all but what exactly does he bring that Mo Speights and Cunningham don't bring?Same for Arenas and OJ. Arenas does exactly what we want OJ to do which is knock down 3 ptrs and he's better at it than OJ.

Things will work themselves out, but I see no reason to get rid of Gay, considering he had no off-season to get his rhythm back, to hold on to bench players. I like the depth but I don't see both Cunningham and DA on this team next year nor do I see both Arenas and OJ on this team next year. Arenas will be a much cheaper option than OJ.

Finally, someone understands.

There are ways to work around getting depth without having to trade your leading scorer. Look at how we did it this season by getting cheap players like Cunningham, Qpon, Arenas and Speights. None of these guys cost us over $3M. If we keep Arthur, I don't expect him to cost us no more than $2-3M and hopefully we can keep Arenas around, which shouldn't cost much.

Your possibly looking at a bench of Arenas, Pondexter, Cunningham, Arthur next year and it'll probably total up to $7-8M altogether. Add in Selby, then you can find a way to get rid of Pargo's $1M and give it to Haddadi. Also, you have your draft pick. We will be fine next year with or without OJ as long as we stay healthy. If we don't stay healthy, make the right moves accordingly.

#10 BigBankHank662

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:53 AM

View PostNotorious O.D.K., on 11 April 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Interesting perspective considering that Grizz have their best record ever with Rudy as the leading scorer, Z-Bo missing a large part of the season(and may never be his old self after tearing his MCL at 31 years old) and an injury-prone DA not playing a single game yet Rudy is the most expendable? Why do we need to keep OJ and DA? I like DA and all but what exactly does he bring that Mo Speights and Cunningham don't bring?Same for Arenas and OJ. Arenas does exactly what we want OJ to do which is knock down 3 ptrs and he's better at it than OJ.

Things will work themselves out, but I see no reason to get rid of Gay, considering he had no off-season to get his rhythm back, to hold on to bench players. I like the depth but I don't see both Cunningham and DA on this team next year nor do I see both Arenas and OJ on this team next year. Arenas will be a much cheaper option than OJ.

I've never been a proponent of trading Rudy, but just to play the devils advocate. Would we be better off if we could trade Rudy's near max contract to say NOH for a 7 million a year Trevor Ariza and the highest of if not both of their 2 lottery picks.(not sure about salary cap restraints) . Even with the rookies salary wed probably be able to keep OJ and Arenas with Ariza and a top 6 pick.

Or has Rudy proven to be invaluable or "untouchable". i think hes improving in every aspect and I wouldn't trade him. But until he fully commits to defense and other aspects of his game due to his contract size, his name will always come up in trade threads on this board. You can always find one dimensional wings who can score in bunches.

#11 New_Sacred_Cow

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:21 AM

Id kill for Rudy Gay+Pargo for Igoudala.

We could shave off 3M and we get one less year on that deal.

Conley/Arenas/Selby
TA/OJ
Iggy/Pondex
ZBO/Cunningham
Gasol/Speights/Hamed

That would be the best wing defense in the league.

#12 Acehigh718

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:47 AM

View Postchipc3, on 11 April 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Do you people really want to get rid of the starting SF so we can keep a back up SG?

I'm really quite baffled by this as well. Essentially people want to get rid of Rudy to allow us to re-sign the wildly inconsistent OJ, and a backup point guard who I'm real excited about, I will say, but has only shown us a handful of games. Can he stay healthy? Who knows. Can OJ keep lighting it up? Who knows, but doubtful.

View Postalwilson, on 11 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

I am not bashing Rudy but his contract is very high and it limits us from doing more than just keeping OJ (who would start on almost any other team) So just saying letting go a starter to keep a bench player isn't a fair assessment of the situation. Every thing isn't black and white, sometimes you have to look in the grey area.

I would rather let Rudy go if it meant keeping 2-3 out of these 4 players: OJ, Mo, DA and Arenas

I know that this would be an unpopular comment, and I am not advocating trading any of our starters, but I'm not so sure that Rudy is the most expendable one. While I know that he's the unquestionable number one, I feel like Zach would be more expendable than Rudy. The guy is on the wrong side of 30, making just as much money and coming off of a tough knee injury. Knee injuries have a tendency to nag. Not to mention, everyone wants to rip Rudy for his low shooting percentages, and "poor" defense... it's not like Zach's much better with either of those things. Zach goes 6-17, 6-15, 4-11 shooting, and we all exclaim " Hallelujah, Zbo's back". Rudy has a night like that and he's "killing the team". The team did just as well without Zach as it did without Rudy (I know playoffs aren't the same, but we've beaten some good teams).

Personally, I don't think keeping our bench players is worth trading any piece of Rudy, Zach, Marc. I'm just saying, if we had to give up one of them, I don't think Rudy's the clear cut choice like everyone thinks he is.

#13 GrizzedByBluffCity

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

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#14 Xerion

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

View PostNew_Sacred_Cow, on 11 April 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Id kill for Rudy Gay+Pargo for Igoudala.

We could shave off 3M and we get one less year on that deal.

Conley/Arenas/Selby
TA/OJ
Iggy/Pondex
ZBO/Cunningham
Gasol/Speights/Hamed

That would be the best wing defense in the league.

Iggy would be great for Grizz style.

#15 GrizzedByBluffCity

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

Iguoadala is a tremendous downgrade from Rudy Gay - get to the trade thread with this crap where it belongs.

#16 BHZMAFIA

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

Some of you do realize the scoring drop you would have if we traded Rudy for Iguodala or Ariza? We would virtually be in the same situation we was in before this season when teams packed it in against us because we had no major perimeter threat.

OJ is a good player, but I'm sure more teams worry about Rudy Gay on the perimeter than OJ.

Iguodala needs the ball in his hands to be used to his full ability. Ariza is injury prone and doesn't do anything better than Rudy Gay. His defense is better, but only if Rudy doesn't give enough effort on that end.

I also agree with Acehigh that ZBO may be our most expendable player. A lot of it depends on if ZBO can get back to his playoff ways. Not to mention, I think Speights is capable of replacing ZBO. There is no doubt in his talent and I think a full offseason/training camp with the coaching staff would turn him into a very, very good player.

I'm not saying we should trade ZBO or any of our starters. I want to keep the entire starting five intact. But, if we had to get rid of one of our bigger contracts, I'll go with ZBO.

Basically, you guys want to a 3rd/4th option player in the starting lineup to replace our 1st/2nd option player. We have Tony Allen guarding the other teams best perimeter player. We don't need two guys. Its funny how people want to replace Rudy with more defensive minded players, but why not get a defensive minded PF who can actually block some shots? That's probably what we need more than anything, an athletic shot blocker.

At the end of the day, talent does win championships. Yes, we thrive off defense and effort, but you need that big time talent when its all said and done. Rudy and ZBO have both proved that they are capable of making big shots and/or taking over games. People in Philadelphia want Iguodala gone because he's not good enough to lead that team. What happens if ZBO gets hurt again next year? Do you really want Iguodala and Marc leading your team?

#17 Acehigh718

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostBHZMAFIA, on 11 April 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Basically, you guys want to a 3rd/4th option player in the starting lineup to replace our 1st/2nd option player. We have Tony Allen guarding the other teams best perimeter player. We don't need two guys. Its funny how people want to replace Rudy with more defensive minded players, but why not get a defensive minded PF who can actually block some shots? That's probably what we need more than anything, an athletic shot blocker.
Right here, you just pointed out a glaring issue with our team that has been vastly overshadowed by our 3pt shooting and point guard woes. There are so many games where Marc catches flack for getting burned, where there would be nothing to complain about if there was a defender that could play above the rim to back him up. Marc gets blocks because of his great positioning on defense and strong IQ, but we have no semblance of an "above the rim" defensive game. The closest thing we have is Dante Cunningham, who makes some nice leaping defensive plays, but he doesn't have the hops to be wholly effective in this sense on a consistent basis.

#18 Iggy

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

First, paying either OJ or Arenas $8/10 mil a year is asinine. Second, as I've said a million times now, the playoffs will determine who we keep, trade, and resign. That includes Rudy. If Rudy does his best Mike Miller impression in the playoffs, we probably need to find a way to move him. Conversely, if goes all Zbo in the playoffs, then he's probably a keeper. Third, we probably won't be 10 deep next season, but we may not need to be. Having 10 solid players was necessitated by combination of things: injuries, contracted season, and poor planing at the backup pg position.

#19 T.O.

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:21 PM

All I can say is I'd hate to be Chris Wallace in this situation. Some very tough decisions might have to be made. Wish Heisley would just pay everyone so we can keep this entire team together. Minus Pargo.

#20 chipc3

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

Just curious why the team will "never be this stacked again?" Won't all the teams in the league have to abide by the same rules? If so, and the Grizzlies aren't the highest payroll team in the league, won't there be just as many bargain players around in the future as there has been this season?

The Grizzlies got Speights for a draft pick bust, Arenas off the garbage heap, Pargo and Cunningham for a song, etc. Why can't this happen again in the future? Wallace has proven to be quite good at finding reasonably priced talent.